enfield 1917 sporter question

[mjbgalt]

i bought one for $299 and want to rebarrel it, otherwise it's in great shape.

it's a .30-06 and i just have no use for that caliber. a .25-06 would be ok i guess.

i have a .243, a 6.x55, and now looking for something to chamber this in.

any ideas?

-Matt

[drdougrx]

Yes....don't waste your money.  I have one as well.  A new barrel by ER Shaw, w chamber, crown and blue is about $350.  New stock about $100-$300. Trigger work, sights and the cock on closing kit, another $200.  Drill and tap for scope mounting, $40 per hole.

Buy a new gun, or a barrelled action and have fun and restock.

If you insist on rebarrel, I'd go with some magnum as the action is long enough.

BTW...who makes it??  If an Eddystone, it may not be safe to rework due to metalurgy issues with this arsenal.  Mines a winchester and I still think it's not worth the trouble.

Just my opinion.

[Tom W.]

One of the gun shops that I frequent had one for sale rechambered to 30-06 A.I. with a heavy Bullberry barrel and a timmeny trigger set to ounces, I believe. really nice set up, but I had just purchased my 2nd Ruger #1B ( it was still in the back of the van, in it's box!) so there wasn't another sale....

[mjbgalt]

this one is already nicely sportered or i wouldn't be doing this. the only change i would make is the chambering.

i would like a .308 but i know there are a lot better ways to get one.

just a fun project for $299 plus whatever i want to put into it.

-Matt

[drdougrx]

Oh...Ok.  The enfield is a long action so I'd suggest a cartridge no shorter than an 06.  How about an 06AI or a 338-06AI???

[mjbgalt]

well that would be ok but i live in ohio...no big game here to hunt other than deer, and we have to use shotguns and inline muzzleloaders for those, unfortunately.

-Matt

[GatCat]

BOY, I don't want to toss gas ( or, petrol ) onto the fire, but I will put my 2 cents worth into this discussion.
Frank DeHass ( author of " Bolt Action Rifles" thought well of the '17's. Of course, he was a gunsmith who enjoyed sporterizing military rifles. Stuart Ottelson ( spelling is probably wrong, I'm at work, away from my books ) talked about the Remington model 30 & 720, mentioned the strong points, and went on to opine that IF Remington would have continued to develop that platform, rather then go with the 720/721, they might have made THE quintessential bolt action. And, even though they are now out of business, for quite a number of years, the B Square large bore rifles were made on Winchester and Remington 1917 actions ( they avoided the Eddystone's).
A gunsmith I recently talked to mentioned he was not fond of the 1917's, simply because they are a pain to lap the locking lugs, but even so he ofers a 3 postion Model 70 style safety for them.
I gotta say I like them, I think it is fun to see how light and and streamlined they can be made. It is fun looking at them, seeing how the recievers were "sporterized" back in the day. Some were done just awfully, others are very nice. About 10 years ago I bought one from an older gent who bought it as issued through the NRA. He took it to Ft. Lewis ( Army base in Wasshington State ) and had it sporterized by an armourer there. I wish I had the ability to post photo's, but trust me, the way he recessed the Lyman 48 reciever sight into the bridge rivals the workmanship of ANY rifle I have ever seen.
Cheers to all,
Mark

[Mike Britton]

Jeeezzz, fellows, can we play nice!?!

[Val]

I own a sporterized 303 that I originally purchased in New Zealand for $15 and had it sporterized in Japan for $40. I get 1/2" three shot groups with this rifle. The British Enfields are one of the finest classic military weapons and were renown for the ability to operate the bolt and chamber a round faster than any other rifle. Millions of these rifles were made. Savage manufactured the No.4 Mark1, the Pakistanis manufactured them. How anyone can discredirt this incredibly effective classic military rifle is beyond my comprehension. This rifle has been around for a century. I have one of the Savage rifles in original configuration and it's a beautiful piece.

[mjbgalt]

wrong enfield. we're talking about the 1917, usually in .30-06.

-Matt

[Tom W.]

A man I knew a long time ago had a milsurp 7mm Mauser that had the "cock on closing" mechanism. while the stock was a bit short for me, it didn't take me too long to get used to system. I ended up rather enjoying it......

[Brithunter]

Your 7mm Mauser was more than likely a M93 often called the Spainish Mauser and the one which led to the development of the 03 Springfield after US forces came up agaisnt it in Cuba. I have a commercial one made by DWM in about 1897 for the Boers and also had a M93 Carbine and OVS marked Rifle all of DWM manufacture but had to sell them to help replace the car after mine was written off a couple of years ago.

Ahhh I didn't know that the US Rifle of 1917 was made in any calibre other than .30 or chambered for anything other than the 30-06 Springfield cartridge  .

Val, the P17 is based on the P14 which is totally different to the Lee Enfields and is heavily mauser influenced right down to the 5 round staggered magazine.

[RaySendero]

i bought one for $299 and want to rebarrel it, otherwise it's in great shape.

it's a .30-06 and i just have no use for that caliber. a .25-06 would be ok i guess.

i have a .243, a 6.x55, and now looking for something to chamber this in.

any ideas?

this one is already nicely sportered or i wouldn't be doing this. the only change i would make is the chambering.

i would like a .308 but i know there are a lot better ways to get one.

just a fun project for $299 plus whatever i want to put into it.

-Matt

Matt,
I'd be tempted to keep it just like it is.

But...Just for fun, without regard to $$$ and plan to reload:
Think I'd rebarrel to a 9,3x62 Mauser or a 416 Taylor.

[MGMorden]

Well, as the owner of an already sporterized P-17 stripped action (that has not manifested itself into a rifle yet ), I can tell you that my own plan is to have it done up in .375 H&H.  As long as the metallurgy is sound, then the action has long been valued for conversion to magnum chamberings.  I figure since I want a .375 H&H eventually, and I want to convert this action into something, I might as well kill two birds with one stone .

Just a note though: make sure you take it to a GOOD gunsmith to have the existing barrel removed.  From my understanding, many of the original barrels when they were installed were overtightened.  If care isn't taken when removing them, the action can crack (microscopic), and would then be unsafe for future use.

[lrs]

I was also thinking of a 9.3x62.  Great minds think alike. 

[LONGTOM]

I just came in on this section and while I can't really comment on the P17 I can on the cock on closing by means of the P14 REMINGTON model 30.
I have 4 of these rifles.
Two are 06s one is the rare 25 REMINGTON and one is a custom I had done years ago in 225 WINCHESTER.
I truly love the cock on closing. It seams to be very smooth and easy to work.
The only drawback I see to using the P14/17 actions for rebarrel is the compound treads.
Several gunsmiths I talked to at the time I had mine done said they did not feel comfortable cutting the threads.
Mine was done by a older gentleman in PA. with fine results.
The main pro to these actions is their tremendous strength.
A long time ago I read in a magazine where a test was conducted to test the strength of these actions.
They were loaded with triple proof loads and fired not once or twice but five times before the bolt even got tight, and another three rounds before there was a blowout which split the gun into two pieces.
The main frame remained in tact with a slight bulge on the left side and the bolt was still in tact and was still able to be hammered open.
That is saying a lot for the design and strength of these actions.
I am sorry but I do not recall which magizen preformed the test.
This is not an attack on anyones beliefs or devotion to any brand or type of gun.
Heck it might not even pertain to the post.
This is just my own personal feelings on the P14/17 actions.


LONGTOM

[Brithunter]

Hmmm I too have heard about this over tightening  and wonder as to the skill level of those employed fitting the barrels, or should I say the skill level of those instructing the operatives fitting the barrels, as it would take something like this to cause it on so many rifles. The square form thread should be no more difficult to cut that a Vee thread, hand grinding the tool takes more care though.

Ahhh one day I hope to obtain a nice model 30 

[gstewart44]

I collect military arms and I am lucky enough to own a Remington manufactured P14 with matching Remington bayonet, a Remington 1917,  a Springfield 03 A3, a Mauser 98K,  a MosinNagant, SMLE No1mkIII and a LE  No4 mk1.

All are in very good condition and I shoot them several times a year, at the range and from my treestands at hogs. They are in their original military condition. 

The most accurate of mine?     drum roll please.......it's a tie!
the P14 and US 1917.   Each of these holds just under 1" at 100yds.  Close second is the 03A3.    The Mauser and No4 are about 2 3/4 inches.   The SMLE and Mosin about 4 ". 

The smoothest bolt?  SMLE and No4.     

The cock on closing mechanism is not even noticed on the bench or in the field.  The comment that was made previously about "Enfields are just a POS"  is obviously only an opinion of someone filled with emotion.   It has no basis in fact according to the history that the rest of the world knows.   The Lee Enfields and the US1917 were the infantrymans' rifles that won WWI.   More Doughboys fielded the 1917 and killed more enemy with it than any other bolt action rifle with US troops.   If the design were such a POS then 1) it would not have been chosen and 2) it would not have been so effective.   

Just my humble experiences related here. 

All have a great summer.......and no  offense BH  - a great July 4th.....

[Brithunter]

All have a great summer.......and no  offense BH  - a great July 4th.....

   None taken  I have too many American friends to worry about that  .  Also it's History and there is nothnig I could do to alter it even if I wished too 

[mjbgalt]

wow. i got all this info from asking about a 1917...


could we play nicely here? a little ridiculous.

-Matt

[Mike Britton]

You know, this is the very reason that I usually stay clear of these forum things. There is ALWAYS one or two people on there that are so convinced that they have the only correct opinion, that they become rabid in defence of that opinion.
A forum is a place to share ideas and information, it gets ruined when name calling and slurs start showing up.
If the two of you disagree, accept that fact and move on. This is getting old!   

[Graybeard]

Jeeezzz, fellows, can we play nice!?!

Yes let's do just that. Time to step back take a deep breath and get back to peaceful discussion.

I also do not care for cock on close actions but my personal bias against them does not make them bad because I don't like them. I do think most folks at least most Americans prefer cock on opening as to us it just seems more natural cuz that's what we've been brought up on. That doesn't make one right and the other wrong it's just a matter of what one prefers.

Let's end the personal attacks and attacks on nationalities here and get back to the discussion of the subject at hand. If one things all cock on close guns are junk then that's a valid position for them just as it's a valid position for those who prefer that to like it. Neither position is right or wrong just different strokes for different folks. Ignoring the rules and making personal attacks on the other hand is WRONG.

The cock on closing mechanism is not even noticed on the bench or in the field.

For you that is perhaps correct but for me personally it is not and is very distracting cuz it's just not what I'm used to.

Your 7mm Mauser was more than likely a M93 often called the Spainish Mauser and the one which led to the development of the 03 Springfield after US forces came up agaisnt it in Cuba.

An M93 at best mildly sporterized with the bolt still unbend was my first ever centerfire rifle. I have to say at this late date as then I still kinda consider it a POS but it did shoot and I did at least much of the time hit what I aimed at with it but it as a sad excuse for the rifle I had asked for as my Christmas present that year. I asked for a Winchester Model 70 .30-06 but my parents cheaped out and bought the Mauser instead. To this day I've never owned that M70 '06 I then thought I wanted but I've owned 200-300 Remington Model 700s instead. Who knows had I gotten that M70 as a young teenager I might have owned only Winchesters ever since. I ended up selling that old Mauser to a friend for $10 and thought I got the better end of the deal.

I really believe my dislike of that old M93 has led to my general distaste for military rifles in general. Since then I think I've owned a grand total of one other military rifle an SKS and I didn't keep it long and never fired it prior to trading it off. But I did develop a love of the 7MM bore from it and still to this day trust and chose the 7mm bore for my hunting rifles more often than any other.

Play nice guys or quit playing here.

[lilabner]

I have a warm spot for the 1917 Enfield because it was my first rifle. My dad bought a 1903 Springfield from DCM for $7.50 and the 1917 for $5.00 in the 1950s. Both were rated "unserviceable" for that low price but it turned out that they just hadn't been checked out. The rifles went to a family friend who was an instructor at the very good gunsmithing school at Colorado School of Trades in Denver. He did a beautiful job on my Enfield. It shot well - I've read that the rifling pattern was designed to hold up longer with good accuracy than most rifling. The cock on closing feature never bothered me. I hunted with the Enfield through my youth and took mule deer and elk with it. The only thing I disliked was the weight. It was much heavier than my dad's sporterized Springfield. It is a long, strong action that can readily handle long magnum cartridges. That is the best use for it in my opinion. Have you considered a hunt for grizzly bears or Alaska brown bears?

[Mike Britton]

My two cents and I'm out of here.
I feel that each rifle has it's own personality and and should be taken at that. Wether it cocks on opening or closing is simply part of that personality. It doesn't necessarily make it junk, or a great rifle. It is what it is.

[MGMorden]

My two cents and I'm out of here.
I feel that each rifle has it's own personality and and should be taken at that. Wether it cocks on opening or closing is simply part of that personality. It doesn't necessarily make it junk, or a great rifle. It is what it is.

Very good point.  I'll not lie - I really do prefer cock on open versus cock on close.  That said, I have rifles with both, and if it does cock on close it's simply a minor inconvenience.  In the same way I like controlled feed over push feed actions but I still shoot several push feeds . 

Besides - though I don't have any experience with how well they work, there is a conversion kit that can be installed to change an Enfield P17 into a cock on open system.

And in the end, variety is interesting .  One of the guys who I had talked to about building my Enfield wanted to straighten out the "dog leg" bolt handle, which I would simply have none of.  Why would I take a defining visual feature of that action and make it look like 99% of other rifles out there?

[LONGTOM]

The cock on closing is just one of those things you get used to. I really don't see any difference in a hunting situation. I don't say it's better or worse, just different.
It took me a long time to get use to the RUGER BLACKHAWK with it's open the gate to load without the half cock I was use to.
Now I find it odd to have to half cock my colt singles when I want to reload.
Not better or worse, just different!


LONGTOM

[Whelen Man]

P17 Enfield Sporterized
Cock on Closing?
Do I Mind?  No

[Mike Britton]

Nice group! Original barrel? I'm having er Shaw put a barrel in an old '03A3 action I picked up. I'll be thrilled with a group like that.

[Whelen Man]

I don't have any idea what type of barrel it is.  There are no markings whatsoever.  The rifle had been sporterized when I got it.  I redid the stock and properly bedded the action and floorplate.  It went from inch and a half to what you see.  The group there is the first group fired after getting it on paper after bedding.  I haven't even shot it any more after that.  It was more of a project to keep me busy during an illness than anything.   Here's what one can look like.
[img width= height=]http://usera.imagecave.com/Whelenman/EnfieldTndeer2.JPG[/img]
[img width= height=]http://usera.imagecave.com/Whelenman/EnfieldTndeer1.JPG[/img]
 One advantage to the cock on closing action is the fact that one can have a better feel of what the brass is doing during extraction without the effort from the cocking of the action.  It's six of one and a half dozen of another to me. 

[Brithunter]

Now that is a nice rifle  looks very good and shoots very well  yes sir thank you for showing us it!