Author Topic: Home techniques - how do you?  (Read 1309 times)

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Offline PaulS

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Home techniques - how do you?
« on: June 10, 2008, 12:19:08 AM »
Does anyone know a home made way to harden and then heat treat a knife of C3 Stainless?
I am nearly finished with this knife but don't think I can afford to have it professionally hardened and heat treated.
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
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Offline Joel

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Re: Home techniques - how do you?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2008, 02:10:04 AM »
The only references to a C3 stainless that I can find refer to a structural stainless steel which is not heat treatable since its very low in carbon at .015%.  You need at least .4% Carbon before a steel  is considered martensetic(heat treatable).  Structural stainless steels are typically used in the manufacture of stainless sinks, pipes, large storage tanks etc and are high in nickel and chromium, plus some aluminum.  Perhaps you're using a different designation for a martensetic steel as manufactured by some different source; manufacturers sometimes devise their own nomenclature,i.e. Buck's 420HC, rather than use standard AISI codes.  You'd have to give me the steel composition, if its different than what I've found before I can say much more. BTW, many of the cheap knives on the market today are made of various grades of 420 stainless, most of which are also very low carbon.  While structural steels can't be heat treated, they do respond, a little, to work hardening.  That means they can hold an edge for a bit.  A lpt of scalpels are made from 420 since it's cheap and they are a one time use, throw away item.  Also, having your blade, of the proper steel, heattreated isn't all that expensive an operation. D'Holder HT's mine and charges me anywhere from $10.00 for a couple of blades, or less for the more blades I send.  Paul Bos also runs a HT service aimed at knifemakers, and he is also reasonable.  There are others.

Offline 30WCF

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Re: Home techniques - how do you?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2008, 04:41:12 PM »
You need a high temp oven for heat treating stainless. I'm not familiar with C3 but if its like the 300 series stainless steels it cant be hardened and tempered for a knife blade. You need a 400 series or similar high carbon stainless for blades. I use mostly 440C or ATS 34, and sometimes and the new Crucible CPM stainless steels.

Offline PaulS

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Re: Home techniques - how do you?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2008, 11:28:19 PM »
This stainless is hard enough that I have worn out a file broken one and have about worn out another. I am doing the stock removal all by hand for personal reasons. I was told that to harden it a salt bath is used - molten salts of different kinds followed by a quench. When I found out how dangerous it was to have a salt bath I decided I would have to have it done. I will look around in my area for some place that will do it.
It is pretty hard as is - using a double cut file in a "striking" position (90 degrees to the blade) it removes very little material and leaves a smooth surface - not polished but real smooth. I was told it was better than 440 stainless for a knife blade. I will have to look back at the specs and post them.
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
Alway check loads you find on the internet against manuals.
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads.

Offline PaulS

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Re: Home techniques - how do you?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2008, 09:38:39 PM »
The allow that I am using on this stainless knife is 440c3
so if you have any ideas on how I can harden and temper this blade let me know.
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
Alway check loads you find on the internet against manuals.
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads.

Offline Joel

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Re: Home techniques - how do you?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2008, 10:36:50 AM »
Without a heat treating oven, I have absolutely no idea how you could do it.  As you can see from this link, 440C ( or any stainless I'm aware of) requires both high temperatures for a prolonged period of time.  Getting your knife professionally heat treated is not expensive.  Paul Bos, Texas Knifemakers Supply will do it at what I consider a very reasonable price.

http://www.admiralsteel.com/reference/sstltech.html

Offline 30WCF

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Re: Home techniques - how do you?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2008, 05:19:24 PM »
I heat treat 440C at 1850 for 30 minutes. Air quench. Draw at 400 for 2 hours. RC 57-58

Offline PaulS

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Re: Home techniques - how do you?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2008, 08:51:31 AM »
Well then, I guess I will have to have the knife hardened professionally. I have no way to maintain controlled temps over 600F.
Thanks for all the help gentlemen.
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
Alway check loads you find on the internet against manuals.
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads.