Author Topic: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!  (Read 1039 times)

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Offline p5200

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are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« on: June 09, 2008, 07:53:08 AM »
Hi, I have a used, Savage Accutrigger .223 10FLP (I THINK) not even sure about that! anyway, every time I go to the woods where I practice, the first two four shot groups at 50 yds. all holes are touching 1/2" to 5/8" with factory Remington 55gr. ammo. after that, even with cool down time each group seems to be getting bigger? with maybe a couple rounds touching. I just recently got the gun (factory stock) from a local gun shop took it out twice with the same results each time. I am using a Bushnell 3x9x40 Trophy model scope. here's where I need more educated opinions, should I get a more powerful scope? or, replace the crappy factory stock? and also, would one of the Bell and Carlson stocks from Midway be an improvement and maybe solve part of my grouping problems or, could the barrel on this gun just be shot out?   :'(

Offline Tom W.

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2008, 07:58:41 AM »
Make sure that all of the screws that hold the stock to the metal are good and tight. If not, it may shoot well for two or three shots and then commence to wander. Check your rings and bases, too, to make sure they are tight.
Tom
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Offline p5200

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2008, 08:07:53 AM »
Make sure that all of the screws that hold the stock to the metal are good and tight. If not, it may shoot well for two or three shots and then commence to wander. Check your rings and bases, too, to make sure they are tight.
Hi Tom, I have checked all of those things as well, as give it a good cleaning. also, I torqued the action screws to 65" pounds as was suggested.? I don't know what to think!   :(  Thanks!

Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2008, 09:39:07 AM »
If you have checked and everything is tight ten maybe you should try another scope on it. One that you know is good. You said maybe the barrel is shot out. How does the rifling look? Does the bore look nearly smooth or can you see good grooves? Dale
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Offline p5200

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2008, 11:46:58 AM »
I can see the rifling grooves when looking through the barrel and since my eyes aren't that good, maybe it is ok I hope! I have another scope I will try Thanks!   :)

Offline chutesnreloads

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2008, 01:14:13 PM »
Do you have or have access to other rifles like this one?Does the same thing happen with them?I would think if it were a stock problem the first groups would also be affected.

Offline p5200

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2008, 01:56:08 PM »
Do you have or have access to other rifles like this one?Does the same thing happen with them?I would think if it were a stock problem the first groups would also be affected.
no I sure don't but wish I did. I measured the 5 groups I shot today at 50yds. #1=7/16" #2= 5/8" and the other 3 were all 3/4". every time I go to shoot, the first group is always the best but, with a lower POI. than the rest. Thanks!   :)

Offline Val

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2008, 12:47:43 PM »
You might try giving the barrel a good scrubbing. It could be build up in the barrel. Maybe even copper.
Hunting and fishing are not matters of life or death. They are much more important than that.

Offline rem700-3

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2008, 02:08:18 PM »
alow more cooling time sounds like the warmer it gets the wider it shoots(most rifles will )  it takes longer than you think to cool one down

Offline DDelle338

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2008, 05:00:10 AM »
  I'd put my money on the heat. Next time you go take another gun along. Shoot a group, then switch to your other gun for an hour or more. Then shoot another group and see how it does.
  I don't think it would be the scope or mounts, or you wouldn't get that first good group.
  You probably have a barrel in contact with stock kind of problem as the barrel expands as it heats the pressure at the contact point/points changes.
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Offline Catfish

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2008, 06:29:25 AM »
It could be alot of things, but since I have no faith in the Bushnell scope it would be the first thing I would check. For 1 thing I would expect groups no larger than 1/2 in at 50 yrds. With the cheap flimisy stocks Savage is useing make sure your barrel is floated and that the forearm does not touch the barrel. Bedding the action would help, but if I were going to try to make it shoot it best I wouls restock it. It really depends on how much money you want to spend. I bought a use .30-06 Savage acouple years ago. I spent 1 1/2 time what I paied for an almost new gun on a new barrel in .22-6mm. I spent about as much as I spent on the gun for a new stock and then spent 5 times as much as I spent on the gun for a scope, but it a real shooter now.

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2008, 06:44:26 AM »
Make sure everything is tight. To make sure, I'd take the scope and mounts and bases off and put them back on. Using a little lock tite or finger nail polish as you go. It doesn't take much scope movement to put you off.  
Make sure you have proper clearance between the stock and the barrel.  Check it cold and then again after you start shooting.  Clean the bore good. Very good.  Use a bore guide and clean from the receiver end.  I doubt your barrel is shot out.  It'd take a lot of shooting to shoot out a .223. Even if a fellow is playing Rambo.  My guess in that department would be copper build up.
What size target dot are you shooting at? At 50 yards, it shouldn't be bigger than 1/2" if that.  Also, how's your bench technique?  Have you got a good solid bench?  Are you shooting from a good rest or firm bags?  Are you capable of bug hole shooting?  No disrepect intended.
Try some other brands of ammo. Some rifles like Rem, some like Win, some like Fed.  Some rifles can't stand the high dollar stuff and shoot the cheapo stuff like a lazer.
Before you start spending a lot of money on scopes and stocks and such, remember that if you put a $1000.00 saddle on a $100.00 horse, you still got a $100.00 horse.  I'd give the rifle a chance to be all it can be before you decide to put a lot of money in it. I don't know what you plan on doing with the rifle but those groups aren't that bad if you plan on using the rifle as a truck gun or a walk-a-round. Tighten them up a little and they wouldn't be bad at all for a factory rifle shooting store bought ammo.  To properly exploit any rifle's accuracy, you need to reload. But that's another story. :D
FYI, in one of the rooms, there's a thread about how to be a better shot.  Wouldn't hurt to read over that. :D

Offline ms

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2008, 06:51:06 AM »
IT'S THE HEAT IN THE SUMMER IT'S HARD ON A RIFLE TO COOL DOWN.

Offline chutesnreloads

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2008, 01:39:01 PM »
I have two Savage 10fp's both stock with the old trigger.I've got both pretty warm and had no accuracy loss.You should expect better than 1/2" groups at 50 yards.Are you a seasoned shooter?I know it's only a .223 but could you be developing a flinch?When my groups start opening up I take a break or switch to a .22 LR.until I know I've settled down.Do try some different ammo to see if that won't tighten your groups too.

Offline trotterlg

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2008, 02:38:11 PM »
With the factory trigger guard the rear action screw tightens down with the plastic trigger guard between the screw head and the steel pillar in the stock.  The front screw is fine, it seats on the steel pillar.  For a few dollars try replacing the plastic tigger guard with a metal one so the screw has a good base to seat on.  Larry
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Offline Doesniper

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2008, 03:19:50 PM »
Sometimes factory barrels have deep imperfections in the bore. These imperfections cause the barrel to foul quickly and accuracy to fall off. I would suggest having the bore lapped. Good luck.

Offline torpedoman

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2008, 04:07:29 PM »
your barrel is touching the stock, the give a way is poi rising as it heats up.
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Offline p5200

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2008, 07:36:36 AM »
WOW! I left for awhile and came back to lots of responses Thanks fellas!  I will read through them all and try to answer everything I can. My shooting conditions aren't that good having Glaucoma, and Diabetes eating at my eyes and, shooting off two big truck wheels with a rolled up towell for a rest lol! I got a set of Allen front and rear bag rests to try using and, I think if I can come up with the funds for a scope with more power and decent quality that might be of help too!  Thanks Again!    :)

Offline wyohandi

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Re: are my grouping problems stock related need help Thanks!
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2008, 04:14:03 PM »
your barrel is touching the stock, the give a way is poi rising as it heats up.
Quote


What he said. See if you can slide a dollar bill between the stock and the barrel, if you can try it
again when the groups open up. If the dollar won't slide down as far or at all try a shim under
the recoil lug (piece of credit card or matchbook works fine) If that cures the problem which I think
it will,  have it bedded if you can afford it or do it yourself. You can always leave the shim in and shoot it
like that, but use plastic,  paper breaks down and attracts moisture.