Author Topic: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308  (Read 1867 times)

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Offline goody454

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Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« on: June 04, 2008, 01:58:44 PM »
I was 11 years old when I got my first gun, a 20ga Pardner for $75 at Wally-World.  Ever since then I've loved the simplicity of a single shot gun, and the level of confidence one has to have to use one.  For a long time I've been going back and forth on whether or not to get a single shot rifle as well.  Honestly the only thing that has stopped me up till now is something my Dad told me quite a few years ago, which was that they're a pain to sight in.  I saw the logic in that, because after every shot you had to come off the bag and then get rested again, and yes I know you shouldnt have to constantly sight in a rifle but for some reason this was enough to deter me.

What finally put me over thedge was when I walked into the local gunshop a couple of weeks ago and saw a gun that someone was having a scope mounted on.  It was a bull-barreled .308, chopped to 16", fluted, moly-coated camoflauge, and sporting a collapsible stock.  Even after having seen the gun it doesnt sound that impressive to me either, but this was one of the sexiest little packages I've seen in a while.  So I himmed and hawwed for all of about two days before I came back with $270 so I could have my buddy at the store order me a .308 Survivor to start my project with.

It came in last Thursday and because I'd made arrangements with a local gunsmith (Mike Cappetta in Barre, VT), who by the way does top-notch work, I was able to drop it off that afternoon with him to get started.  So five days and 5.5" later (I had it cut and crowned to 16.5" just to be safe) I picked up the gun from his house and took it home.  I'm still waiting on my Millett high rings to come in at the store, but I had to give it a test drive, so I put a 165gr bullet in, shouldered the gun (with the hard plastic survivor butt-stock), got good cheek weld to get the full effect and touched it off.  I was extremely surprised how little recoil it had, I thought it was going to kick like a mule but it was almost the same as my Remington Varmint .308 with a 26" barrell and about four more pounds under its belt.

After a lot of debating I dont thinkn I'll go with the ATI collapsible stock, but a regular synthetic monte-carlo instead.  Now for the obvious question, why so short?  Well I couldnt legally go a lot shorter, and in Vermont we do a lot of walking through thick brush and trees in deer season and the earlier mentioned 26" barrled Remington wasn't really made for the job.  Also why not, the thing is friggin cool, easy to carry, and points and swings like a dream.  I plan on putting a 2-7 Leupold on it, but the 1.5-4.5 Bushnell will do for now, I plan on doing some close in work on deer and hogs next year in Texas. 

Sorry if the thread was long, but there was a lot to get off my chest (I feel like I just went to confession).


The cut down .308 next to my Remington Varmint to show the dramatic difference in my new woods gun.


The Survivor cut down, Monte-Carlo butt-stock is in the mail.


A not so great picture of the recessed target crown my gunsmith did for me.


By the way, this gun is friggin loud!
"He who makes a beast of himself gives up the pain of being a man"

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2008, 02:16:09 PM »
Yep, you'd better have very good ear protection and sun glasses, don't shoot near any flammable materials and don't expect any ballistic advantage over a 30/30 with a real barrel.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline STUMPJMPR

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2008, 02:34:48 PM »
So are you going to use a holster or a sling?

Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2008, 02:39:32 PM »
Looks like a handi little bugger. :D   Sounds like what you will be hunting in it will have plenty of poop, 308 is going to be faster than a 30-30 I'm sure.  If you have a chrono, would be intrested in hearing what velocity you are getting.  DP.
RIP Oct 27, 2017

Handi's:22Shot, 22LR, 2-22Mag, 22Hornet, 5-223, 2-357Max, 44 mag, 2-45LC, 7-30 Waters, 7mm-08, 280, 25-06, 30-30, 30-30AI, 444Marlin, 45-70, AND 2-38-55s, 158 Topper 22 Hornet/20ga. combo;  Levers-Marlins:Two 357's, 44 mag, 4-30-30s, RC-Glenfields 36G-30A & XLR, 3-35 Rem, M-375, 2-444P's, 444SS, 308 MX, 338Marlin MXLR, 38-55 CB, 45-70 GS, XS7 22-250 and 7mm08;  BLR's:7mm08, 358Win;  Rossi: 3-357mag, 44mag, 2-454 Casull; Winchesters: 7-30 Waters, 45Colt Trapper; Bolt actions, too many;  22's, way too many.  Who says it's an addiction?

Offline goody454

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2008, 02:45:10 PM »
Yep, you'd better have very good ear protection and sun glasses, don't shoot near any flammable materials and don't expect any ballistic advantage over a 30/30 with a real barrel.

Joe,
I lost enough hearing at Camp Lejeune that I'm not really worried about my ears anymore, I always wear shades (even to bed), my target range is surrounded by a moat of coleman fuel, and I am absolutely in love with the .308. 
I've had a couple of 30-30's before, both Marlins, but I'm honestly not a big fan.  I can never seem to get a stock-weld/scope set-up that I'm happy with, plus everyone else around here has 30-30's (except my buddy with a 45-70 lever, which we call the Canadian 30-30) and I wanted something different.

Stumjmpr, drop holster for sure...
"He who makes a beast of himself gives up the pain of being a man"

Offline petemi

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 01:09:02 AM »
In the VT winter woods, a youth stock may work with heavy insulated clothing, and make it even more compact.  Put an adult stock back on when you go to Texas.  Neat little Piece!  Good Luck.
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
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Offline Lucky Joe

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2008, 02:17:48 PM »
Kind of reminds me of that Mares Leg that fellow (can't remember the show now) I think it's The Rebel used to carry.
Lucky Joe

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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2008, 03:23:13 PM »
That show was  WANTED: DEAD OR ALIVE  with Steve McQueen.   the Mare's Leg was a chopped Winchester model 92 in 44/40 cal even though McQueen wore 45/70 cartridges in his belt for Hollyweird effect.
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline shaner

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2008, 01:21:20 AM »
heye stumpjumpy id love to see a still pic or even video of you touchin that ol puppy off sometime  has to give a fireball  for sure, cool looker for sure , i had both 357 & 45/70 cut down to 16.5 they are a blast in both ways hahahah

Offline Lucky Joe

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2008, 07:09:50 AM »
That show was  WANTED: DEAD OR ALIVE  with Steve McQueen.   the Mare's Leg was a chopped Winchester model 92 in 44/40 cal even though McQueen wore 45/70 cartridges in his belt for Hollyweird effect.

Right you are, I remember now. Thanks.
Lucky Joe

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Offline NFG

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2008, 07:13:11 AM »
I think that is a neat looking tool...and one similar to it would be a nice addition to my 16 3/4" 6mm BR.  You might just have jump started my creative juices and kept them going this time.  

I have a couple of Savage threaded barrels that could be rebored, a 308 Win barrel for a Ruger that could be threaded to fit my stub barrel NEF frame and I keep getting all fired up to do a 375 JDJ...then the fire gets smothered.  A stubby barreled 375 JDJ on the stub barrel frame might just be a toy who's time has come, now that I'm just about finished with my 375 HH project.

Thank you for your excellent project and I hope it works out well for you.

Anyone remembering Steve McQueen and "Wanted dead or alive" is showing a bit of age...or has been watching too many old re-runs....LOL...that show was one of my favorite "re-runs" and I wanted one just like it.  I never could figure out how he loaded those thumb sized 45-70's in that shooter...just figured it was Hollywood where six guns could shoot a hundred rounds without reloading and you didn't have to point to get your man.  Now there is too much "real and political correctness" to let your imagination run rampant, sad to say.

'Njoy

Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2008, 08:12:44 AM »
375 JDJ, that sounds like a lot of fun.  I thought maybe a 358 JDJ would be a nice one if I didn't go with the 35 Rem.  Gotta find some proper shipping container to get 2 frames and a barrel back to them quick.  DP.
RIP Oct 27, 2017

Handi's:22Shot, 22LR, 2-22Mag, 22Hornet, 5-223, 2-357Max, 44 mag, 2-45LC, 7-30 Waters, 7mm-08, 280, 25-06, 30-30, 30-30AI, 444Marlin, 45-70, AND 2-38-55s, 158 Topper 22 Hornet/20ga. combo;  Levers-Marlins:Two 357's, 44 mag, 4-30-30s, RC-Glenfields 36G-30A & XLR, 3-35 Rem, M-375, 2-444P's, 444SS, 308 MX, 338Marlin MXLR, 38-55 CB, 45-70 GS, XS7 22-250 and 7mm08;  BLR's:7mm08, 358Win;  Rossi: 3-357mag, 44mag, 2-454 Casull; Winchesters: 7-30 Waters, 45Colt Trapper; Bolt actions, too many;  22's, way too many.  Who says it's an addiction?

Offline NFG

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2008, 08:59:15 AM »
I've wanted to do a 375 JDJ for a very, VERY long time but just never got a round tuit for the job.  First a barrel for my T/C, then a bolt pistol, then rifle, then back to the T/C...then...then...then.  I bought the dies a couple years ago, started on a SMLE 2A, made up some dummy rounds, got the mag worked out, stock set up, scope mounts and ghost ring sights made, receiver drilled and tapped, squared...pretty much finished...except never got around to the barrel.  Midway finally got in some 80 dollar 375 barrels so I might just go ahead with the bolt gun...cheaper than having a barrel rebored/rechambered...but I like the "shorty" NEF setups...can't decide...plus I'm starting to get overloaded with "project" guns I have too much money in but can't sell, hardly give away or pay someone to haul off. :(


ANY of the 35's are good.  Any of the "JDJ's" are good.  I like the 358 Rem or the 358 JDJ on a short barrel shooter...they are similar in actual killing ability, but I like the bigger bores.  If I hadn't bought the 375 JDJ dies (pricey little boogers) I was looking at a 416 cal...my own design...but then looked at the ballistics of the 444 Marlin and think "bigger dia, heavier bullets, factory ammo, factory NEF barrel, cheaper dies, much easier to get components for"...and so on...and the flame of imagination gets a BIG bucket of water tossed on it....not to mention the 450 M, 45-70, 45-90 or 45-100,120 stick their noses into the pot for a sniff.  I'm not even sure I will finish the SMLE project.  Besides the NEF rig would be a short range <100 yd tool the better ballistics of a 416 cal wouldn't be of much value.

See what this sport will do to you...turn you into a sniveling, incapable of making a decision, wormy little hoohoo, crying and drooling in a dark corner...or not.  If you want to keep your sanity don't ever buy a lathe and mill, start down the wildcat road...and only ONE rifle, pistol and shotgun allowed.   LOL...VERY LOUD.

'Njoy

Offline tykempster

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2008, 03:08:26 PM »
That's about the most compact rifle you can legally own without special licenses!  What's the muzzle flash like at dusk?

Offline Freezer

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2008, 02:14:45 PM »
    If you hand load I'm sure there's short barrel data out there somewhere.  I like it!  Looks like a great brush deer/pig gun.  Out to two hundred yards, Why not!  135gr to 180gr  Aoh Aoh Aoh Aoh Aoh!
    Use a lead sled to sight in then get familiar with the gun from hunting positions.  I never feel the recoil when there's game in front of the gun.  Did I say I like it allot!   ;)

Offline goody454

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2008, 09:29:48 AM »
I'm glad you all like the gun.  I just got the Monte-Carlo stock in the mail at work today and put it on on government time.  Looks pretty sweet and feels musch better than the Survivor stock, I'll post a pick later tonight. 
Petemi, as far as using a youth stock, I dont think I'll need to.  When I'm hunting I usually wear a camo shirt and wool vest, anymore than that and I heat up too much when I'm walking around. 
As for the length, it measures 32" from butpad to barrel.
"He who makes a beast of himself gives up the pain of being a man"

Offline goody454

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2008, 01:22:51 PM »

With the monte-carlo stock and scope


I was just barely able to use medium Millett rings with the Bushnell 1.5-4.5 sportview.  I didnt think the scope would be permanent, but it does make for a nice little package.  I'll just have to see how it holds up after a few rounds.

I'm going to clock it with my buddies chrono this weekend along with my 26" barreled Remington for comparison, and I'll try to get either a vid or still of the blast.
"He who makes a beast of himself gives up the pain of being a man"

Offline Tencubed

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Re: Barely Legal .... 16.5" Survivor .308
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2008, 10:37:12 AM »
I have a TC in 45-70 with the 16" barrel and also have a BC with the 32" tube.

Using the same load with a 405 grain bullet the 16" gives 1567 FPS, the 32" averaged 1964 FPS.  These were ten shot strings.

The Contender has a very sharp recoil and jump when fired.  Muzzle blast from the ported barrel is extreme.  I tried putting a K4 Weaver scope on it, lasted about ten rounds and shook apart.  For the short range it is used the peep and post work well.

Each rifle has it's place, the long gun is great fun to shoot but nearly impossible to carry when working off a quad.  The little rifles have many advantages but do give up a lot of energy from the lost velocity.

Question was ask about muzzle flash in reduced light.  It's kind of like setting off a giant flashbulb that lingers for a bit.  Quite impressive actually.

Mike
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Why do I carry a gun?  Because a Cop's too heavy.
Oldest rifle I shoot - 1854 Sharps 50-70