Author Topic: barrel lengh (Read 3828 times)

wgr · « **on:** May 25, 2008, 07:06:39 AM »

hey guys in your oppion what would be the best barrel length to get? thinking about a ruger super blackhawk.this will be a hunting only gun got a ccw.i have a 4in Dan Wesson in 357 that Ive killed deer and smaller game with but they were close.the blackhawk will be a .44mag. thinking about a 7in barrel any oppions. thinks bill

tanoose · « **Reply #1 on:** May 25, 2008, 08:51:42 AM »

I like the 7 1/2 " barrels i had a SBK and tried both the 4 5/8 and 10 1/2 and when i bought my SRH i got the 7 1/2 i think it carries the best

safetysheriff · « **Reply #2 on:** May 25, 2008, 09:14:05 AM »

a 7 1/2" barrel will increase the velocity, and the sight radius for longer-range shooting. a 5 1/2" barrel will have the sights in somewhat closer focal planes if your eyes are weaker. and it will carry easier. a 5 1/2" barreled 'super' is a powerhouse when properly loaded.

you can pick up some velocity with your projectile if you shoot hard-cast instead of jacketed bullets. that little trick is worth more than 100 fps' in most applications with a proper load behind it. the problem with hard cast bullets is the lack of expansion. that expansion greatly helps, in my opinion, on critters like deer. for hogs, bear, elk, and so on, i'd go with lead.

ss'

drdougrx · « **Reply #3 on:** May 25, 2008, 12:13:28 PM »

Either or in my opinion (5 1/2 or 7-7 1/2). I have a SBH that I sent to MagNaPort years ago for their predator package. The package calls for a 4 3/8" barrel. I had them shorten the barrel to 6". Wish I left it at 7 1/2. I also use a SW29 w a 6" and it's fine as is my 4" sw29 MOUNTAIN. Really either length will work fine.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 26, 2008, 02:01:22 AM »

5 1/2 to 7 1/2 is what I like. If I have one customized, I go with a 6 inch.

Catfish · « **Reply #5 on:** May 26, 2008, 02:46:19 PM »

I think your in the right neighborhood. Take a look at the Super Black Hawk Hunter. With it you can add a scope later without drilling and tapping if you want. I have .44`s with barrels from 4 in. to 11 3/4 in. For hunting with iron sights it just seem to me that barrels fron 7 to 9 in are ideal. They still handle well and you have a good long sight plane.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #6 on:** May 27, 2008, 12:44:04 AM »

for me a 5.5 inch is as long as i want to carry. Any longer and there to heavy and interfere with comfort for me to carry in a vehicle or on a bike. Actually i prefer a 4 5/8s over all of them on a single action and 4 inch on a da. You have to keep in mind though that im one that actually shoots a short barrel better off hand then a long barrel. I think its a combo of the fact that ive shot them for many many years and they just feel right and like the wobble you get in a scoped handgun, i get the same with a long barrel and its distracts me. They also ballance poorly for me in the hand. To me its hard to beat a box stock 4 5/8s super blackhawk for a hunting handgunLong barrels may work better for someone hunting out of a blind or if you scoping it but the short ones are like taffin says the ultimate PPP (practical packing pistol)

MePlat · « **Reply #7 on:** May 27, 2008, 12:55:32 AM »

Lloyd: I am glad to see someone that tells it like it is is on barrel lenght. Awhile back I was trying to make the same point with my sight radius and alignment question that I soundly got thrashed on and then eventually the thread got locked.

If you can hold a certain degree of hold, alignment, error, what ever one wants to call it with one than it can be done with another. short sight radius doesn't just make a good holder a bad holder like some black magic is involved.
It has been pounded down the throats of shooters for so long that it is automatically believed and is never investigated by shooters to see if it is true.
If someone believes something enough just like being a hypochondriac than it is true in that persons mind whether it is or not.

It is physicological pure and simple.
One can't fight old wives tales.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #8 on:** May 28, 2008, 12:16:23 PM »

Quote from: MePlat on May 27, 2008, 12:55:32 AM

Lloyd: I am glad to see someone that tells it like it is is on barrel lenght. Awhile back I was trying to make the same point with my sight radius and alignment question that I soundly got thrashed on and then eventually the thread got locked.

If someone believes something enough just like being a hypochondriac than it is true in that persons mind whether it is or not.

It is physicological pure and simple.
One can't fight old wives tales.

i think i can understand how that thread May have been ''locked''. it sounds like one or more of the participants departed from rational debate. i, for one, think you are greatly mistaken. i'll leave it at that.

ss'

GRIMJIM · « **Reply #9 on:** May 28, 2008, 01:05:19 PM »

Also check your local regulations for barrel length. Here in Illinois it is a minimum of 4 inches, could be more where you live.

Maybe it's the longer barrel and not the sight radius but I'll take my 9 1/2 inch srh.

jwp475 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 29, 2008, 04:40:40 PM »

5 1/2" is perfect, nothing over 6" IMHO

Catfish · « **Reply #11 on:** May 30, 2008, 12:52:39 AM »

As Lloyd said " If you can hold a certain degree of hold, alignment, error, what ever one wants to call it with one than it can be done with another. short sight radius doesn't just make a good holder a bad holder like some black magic is involved." Years ago I had a fried stop in right after he became a member of the Ohio Hwy.patrol. He had a Lady Smith with a 2 in barrel for a back up gun. At that time we spend alot of time shooting a cans from 60 to 80 yrds. When he pulled out that little gun, and we all got done laughing, we tried it on the closer cans, abt 60 yrds. No one could believe how well it shot. I had no trouble holding a group under 1 ft. at 60 yrds. with it. Barrel lenght aint everything, but I still prefer them longer.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #12 on:** May 30, 2008, 01:05:58 AM »

metplat may not be the smoothest guy at expressing himself but either am I. What he says is the same as i believe though. Barrel lenght will not buy you much of a ballistic advantage and has nothing to do with accuracy. Ever wonder why bench rest shooters use short stiff barrels? Ever wonder why when looking at used guns a 4 inch gun will just about allways bring a better price then an 8 inch gun. Most guys start with long barreled guns because they have been fed these wise tails for years and to be honest most beginning handguners shoot them slightly better. could be that there is a tad less recoil and muzzle blast. But even the recoil thing is something i dont totaly agree with. My 500s with 4 inch barrels have less aparent recoil then a 5.5 inch gun. Ive allways believe that was because of the dwell time the bullet spent in the barrel. Handgun shooting is all about trigger control. PERIOD! If your trigger breaks when the barrel is aligned with the target you hit if its not you miss. Like was said in my last post I find long barreled guns show more sight shake just like a scoped gun and it tends to hurt my brains ability to make my finger work. I guess the main reason i like them short is I like the freedom of having a compact sixgun on my hip in a hip holster. You can hunt all day and not even know you have it on your side till you need it. If i had to carry a long barreled handgun in a sholder hoster i think id just as soon carry a lever gun with a sling. Afterall there no heavier then some of the handguns ive seen guys carry.

warrior1 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 30, 2008, 02:34:46 AM »

recently i had a smith convert my 357 to 44 special,and i had ordered a 5.5" barrel.
when i checked on it he informed me he had put a 4 5/8" on by mistake and he will need a little longer to remove this barrel and install the 4 5/8". i had been second guessing myself
about 5.5" anyway and told him leave the shorter barrel on it. i'm glad i did.
i thought it was me but the gun just feels more at home with the shorter barrel.dan

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #14 on:** May 30, 2008, 02:59:59 AM »

+1 On Lloyds Post

When I started working with the 4" part of me wanted to take it hunting (read excellent balance & pointability) while part of me wanted to prove that it just wasn't accurate enough as compared to my 7-1/2"
Not True!...the little fellow not only kept up at 30yds but also the 50 to 60yd range in the accuracy dept. I set out to find a load combo that I figured it wouldnt like using two diff weights of cast and two diff weights
Of jacketed that worked well in the longer barrel but were untried in the 4"...made no difference, the thing was like a bratty kid brother as the accuracy screamed Take Me Hunting.

Ladobe · « **Reply #15 on:** May 30, 2008, 08:15:50 AM »

Way back when I hunted big game with revolvers along with the specialty pistols, I decided to go up from the S&W Model 19 6" for big western mule deer I had been using and bought a SBH 10.5" to gain some longer effect range over the little 357 MAG. What a PITA to carry over tall mountains (Rockies), slow to bring to bear from the shoulder holster I carried it in and I had to be careful not to knock myself out trying to get all of that barrel out of the holster in a hurried situation when a buck suddenly jumped up. Starting the very next year I carried a 7.5" SBH in a cross draw holster that was much more pleasant to carry and hunt with. Got out of the using the revolvers for big game hunting soon after and went back to just the specialty pistols I had started hunting with in the late 60's. Mainly because I was more into elk hunting than deer probably and the 44MAG was just not enough for long shots on them. Carried the SP's with a sling and never looked back.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #16 on:** May 30, 2008, 03:22:57 PM »

i find no argument with the notion that shorter barrels can be stiffer 'all else being equal', so to speak. and i find no argument with how much easier the shorter barrel carries on one's person.

but i definitely have found a 6 barrel to be easier to shoot accurately than a 4 barrel when shooting ruger gp-100's. it has allowed for a more discriminating hold against the target. naturallly the 6'' barrel is much more bulky.

one surprising thing i've also noticed: with a red-painted front sight i find it easier to hold still and discriminate position against a black rear sight (on a SBH) than a white-outlined rear sight (on a gp-100) dry-firing indoors. i am guessing that it is the contrast, but admit that under some conditions a white-outlined rear sight may be more desireable.

i think that until one's eyes may weaken that the longer sight radius is a plus. it has been for me.

ss'

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** May 31, 2008, 11:42:30 PM »

I too like my rear sights black not white lines on mine or colared inserted front sights. black on black.

Quote from: safetysheriff on May 30, 2008, 03:22:57 PM

i find no argument with the notion that shorter barrels can be stiffer 'all else being equal', so to speak. and i find no argument with how much easier the shorter barrel carries on one's person.

but i definitely have found a 6 barrel to be easier to shoot accurately than a 4 barrel when shooting ruger gp-100's. it has allowed for a more discriminating hold against the target. naturallly the 6'' barrel is much more bulky.

one surprising thing i've also noticed: with a red-painted front sight i find it easier to hold still and discriminate position against a black rear sight (on a SBH) than a white-outlined rear sight (on a gp-100) dry-firing indoors. i am guessing that it is the contrast, but admit that under some conditions a white-outlined rear sight may be more desireable.

i think that until one's eyes may weaken that the longer sight radius is a plus. it has been for me.

ss'

MePlat · « **Reply #18 on:** June 01, 2008, 02:12:56 AM »

Without a doubt ( in my mind) the worst front sight I have ever encountered is the red ramp S&W insists on sticking on some of their revolvers.
A good trick is to purchase some spray paint for stoves and barbecue grills and then mask off the area around the front sight and paint it with that paint. Long lasting and will be far better that anything else except a patridge black front or an undercut black front.

TEXXAS · « **Reply #19 on:** June 01, 2008, 06:02:26 AM »

Fact - Mechanical accuracy of a revolver is the same for short and long barrels. A machine rest will prove it.

Fact - A sighting error of .001 will cause a larger bullet impact error in a short barrel than a long barrel. Geometry will prove it.

Fact - A alignment error of 1% will cause a larger bullet impact error in a long barrel than a short barrel. Geometry will prove it.

Fact - A long barrel has a longer barrel travel time for the bullet than a short barrel. Physics will prove it.

I believe that for most people the above explains why when we are young eyesight and reaction time trumps experience. When we get older our experience trumps our lessened eyesight and reaction time.

MePlat · « **Reply #20 on:** June 01, 2008, 08:05:50 AM »

TEXXAS: On number one in your post you are correct. On number two you are correct only if you misalign the sights .001 on both a short sight radius and a long but if a sight radius of twelve inches is misaligned .001" the misalignment at the 6 inch distance or the halfway mark is only half that amount and vice versa. On number three you are incorrect. On number four you are correct.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #21 on:** June 01, 2008, 10:27:14 AM »

Tex'

i, too, believe that you are wrong on your third 'fact'; but am not sure what You mean exactly by 1%.

ss'

Lone Star · « **Reply #22 on:** June 01, 2008, 10:58:04 AM »

Fact #1 - not always true, the muzzle pressure of a 2" barrel is far higher than on an 8" barrel. Less turbulence at the muzzle can translate into less disturbance of the bullet so that it flies truer, particularly with an imperfect bullet base (more common on revolvers than many imagine). My M45 Dan Wesson is more accurate scoped with an 8" barrel than it is with a 4" scoped barrel, same loads.

Fact #2 - Yes, but sighting error is really more a function of the relative sizes of the blade and notch. With identical apparent sizes - short and long barrels - the potential for error is lessened. Optimizing sight sizes corrects most of the problem, and as stated the close proximity of the sights to each other on the short barrel makes it easier to focus on both - for many folks at least.

Fact #3 - You got that one backwards, unless I don't understand what you mean by 1% alignment error.

Fact #4 - Absolutely true with the same load - but a lighter, shorter barrel may recoil upwards faster than a long barrel so the bullet may exit at a higher angle with the short tube. This makes holding the short revolver consistently much more of a challenge if top accuracy is required. Again, the M45 example applies for me at least.

.

Cottonwood · « **Reply #23 on:** June 28, 2008, 03:04:48 AM »

I personally have a 4 5/8ths Ruger SBH and have several friends that do as well with some scoped even, yet others have 5.5" models as both seem to carry much easier than the longer 7.5" barreled models. Now of course this is just my opinion, as you have to be the desider of what is right for you and you alone.

Then most importantly practice at your known shooting distance for handgun hunting. Are you going to be taking shots out to 25, 50, 75 or even 100 yards? My normal area I will be shooting where I get shots as close as 5 yards and no greater than 30 yards in the dark woods which is about what I was doing bowhunting, so that is what I practice at.

Then get yourself some archery animal targets like these or the other poster types such as the black bear posing sideways or whitetail deer posing sideways. These targets have the vitals outlined with a faint line for heart lung and kidney areas.

Martin Archery Targets with the Deer, Bear and Ram.

Martin Archery Small Game Targets for the Large Target Pack or Small Target Pack.

I only use these types of targets to practice ALL my hunting with as I am staying focal for what I am hunting.

petemi · « **Reply #24 on:** July 01, 2008, 09:16:37 AM »

I'm an experienced rifle shooter and a novice handgun shooter. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I always belived a longer barrel normally yieled higher velocities and a longer sight plane yielded better accuracy. I can't believe a a 4 inch barrel will give the same or better accuracy and knockdown power my 6 1/2" .357 BH. It seems to me to be a 1/16th of an inch off in your sight picture with a 4 inch barrel would put you farther off target than being the same off in a longer barrel.........I tend to think that is geometric too.

MePlat · « **Reply #25 on:** July 01, 2008, 10:34:36 AM »

The trouble is anyone can believe anything they want too. Normally a longer barrel will give higher velocities.
Now on to barrel length and sight plane, sight radius, what ever one wants to call it. With your example above using a 16th sight error on lets say a 12 inch sight plane verses a 6 inch sight plane. If you are capable of holding an error of 16th inch on a 12 inch plane that that error would be 1/32 inch error on the 6 inch plane. If you are capable of holding a 16th inch error on a 6 inch plane the error would be 1/8th error on a 12 inch plane. That sir is mathamatically (geometrically) proven.
A short plane does not make you a better or worse holder as a longer plane doesn't make one a better or worse holder. It is your nervous system and your ability to control it. If you have convinced yourself mentally that you can't hit squat with a shorter plane then guess what you probably can't. The mind does funny things just like a hypocondriac can make themselves sick.
Your ability to hold steady is within you and you only a gun doesn't control it it is an inantimate object with no special powers that I am aware of.
Also your ability with a handgun varies day to day as I defy anyone to shoot the same size groups ever day with any sight plane or any caliber. One day you may indeed shoot the longer plane better than maybe the next shooting session you may shoot the shorter plane better.
There are many varibles involved in ones shooting than to lay the blame for poor shooting on barrel length and it alone.
Now on this I am talking about field shooting positions etc. not bench rest shooting like many tend to do and then try to extend that ability over to field position shooting which has nothing to do with it.
But we all have the right to believe the way we want to so if a longer plane gives you extreme confidence then more power to you.

Good day.

warrior1 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 01, 2008, 01:23:22 PM »

my only question here is wouldn't any advantage gained with a long barrel be offset by the balance and ease of holding aim with say a 4/58" or 5" barrel ? dan

petemi · « **Reply #27 on:** July 02, 2008, 01:16:41 AM »

Quote from: warrior1 on July 01, 2008, 01:23:22 PM

my only question here is wouldn't any advantage gained with a long barrel be offset by the balance and ease of holding aim with say a 4/58" or 5" barrel ? dan

Good point, Dan. But, A couple of weeks ago a buddy of mine bought a .45 Ruger, I think P96 with a 4.5 inch barrel. He shot much better with my 6.5 .357.

An afterthought, If short barrelled guns are as efficient as long, why do all the silhouette shooters I know shoot hog legs?

I just took a ruler and a sheet of 8 1/2 X 11 printer paper. Drew a straight line from top to bottom through the center. I measured 4.5 inches and 6.5 inches up from the bottom and marked them on the centerline. I used .25 inch for sighting error to make the illustration visible on a sheet of paper. I measured .25 to the left of the line at 4.5 inches and marked it, and did the same on the right side at the 6.5 inch mark. Then I used the ruler to connect the center line at the bottom of the page to both the barrel length dots and continued the line through the top of the page. The 4.5 inch barrel scored 5/8 inch at the top of the page and the 6.6 inch scored 7/16. It does the same with a bullet. The same deviation in sight picture results in being more off target with a short barrel gun.

petemi · « **Reply #28 on:** July 13, 2008, 09:39:23 AM »

I posted on the second of July, and no one has commented. There simply is no way a short barrelled gun is as easy to aim and accurate a a long gun, or more powerful. Anyone hear of anyone hunting with a derringer?? Perhaps buffalo at at 150 yards? Why then is my .357 rifle, 22 inch barrel, accurate past 200 yards and my 6.5 in Blackhawk is not?

Strange, isn't it?

MePlat · « **Reply #29 on:** July 13, 2008, 12:33:46 PM »

If you take your same example with a sight error of .25 inch for the long raduis and then see where the error is at half that distance it would be only .125 inch. What you are trying to say that if you are capable of holding a certain degree of error on a long radius that a short radius somehow makes you a bad holder. That is not true. Your hold is no different. Your holding ability is your holding ability and barrel length makes no difference. You can always use some extreme example like a 2 inch barrel with shoddy sights like a belly gun or some monstrosity like a 18 inch barrel but within reasonable barrel length if you can't hit it is you and not the sight radius.
Your ability is no different. Everyone uses the old same given error example but one has nothing to do with the other.
Silhouette shooter a lot of times rest the gun alongside their drawn up leg and the longer barrel has the muzzle in front of their leg and the flashgap behind it.
Just like I have said old wives tales die hard and this is one of them. If you can shoot you can shoot if you can't you can"t.
I have yet seen anyone that can shoot not be able to shoot because of any reasonable mechcanical variation.
We are not talking about benchrest shooters etc. with handguns because longer barrel guns are more adapable to resting on bags etc..
Variations in power yes the longer barrels are more powerful because of longer powder burn but are you really saying if you can't do it with 1200 fps then 1300 you are going to do it?
We have been programmed to use excuses to cover us from a very young age so we shooters are looking for any excuse to explain out shortcomings in shooting just like we us excuses to cover us at work, with the wife, etc. so the barrel lenght excuse is a good one too. I have a whole list I carry with me to use incase I have a bad day too.