My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN

[williamlayton]

At the rate you are going I am going too guess that you are going to need too install the trigger backwards in order too push it out when you want it too stop fireing.
I am going with a 1 1/2# trigger.
Blessings

PS---if the first thought is correct then perhaps you will have too use a 30 round mag from an old Thompson sub.

[SharonAnne]

ok, one vote for 1.5#.  Others?

with the 1.5# trigger in my 9x23 I often run a 28 round magazine.

[Mikey]

For your 9x23 with a 28 round magazine you are probably running around 1.5#, which I would opine is about half what you need for a good carry piece.  IMHO.  Mikey.

[SharonAnne]

Mikey, I think there is some confusion. Yes , the trigger pull in my 9x23 IS 1.5#.

The question IS what is the pull of my selection of parts, installed dry with no adjustment. Just putting them in the 1911, what pull did I get? Not what will I get after lubrication and adjustment, just what was the initial pull?

[Mikey]

I'll betcha it's probably not more than 2.5 lb., once adjusted because a trigger (adjustable) can be adjusted not to fire and you can tug like mad on it but it needs to be adjusted to trip the sear, so you can go from a non-firing status with that trigger to whatever weight pull you want. 

I'll betcha that if you adjusted everything to work (which is whatcha oughta do in my mind - barren as it is) before lubrication your pull probably won't be much more than one pound more than after final lube and adjustment. 

Did I answer the question properly to the manner in which you posed it???  Not whether my answer was correct, but was it a proper response to your question??  Mikey.

[SharonAnne]

Mikey, yes. Your answer is correct regarding my 1911 and the action filled with my parts selection.

OK, we have one for 1.5# and one for 2.5#. Seems our panel, knowledgeable but small thinks very highly of the parts I selected. Only EGW claims a pull under 2#-tuned by their best gunsmiths.

BTW, the trigger IS adjusted to fire. All of the other parts were simply assembled. No stoning, no spring tweaking, just straight up.
I DID say 1.4-1.8# but that was what I hoped for after lubrication and tuning. William thinks I am already there. WOW! 2.5# from Mikey. That would be great. Gunsmiths charge big bucks for a 2.5# trigger pull. It would be pretty cool to get that with 'drop-in' parts!
Also, I like that Mikey has commented on what he thinks the change will be from 'drop-in' to 'tuned'. It will be interesting to find out. I DO agree Mikey that at least 3# is a minimum for a carry pistol.
Mikey, you think 2.5# now and not less than 1.5# after lube and spring tuning. It will be fun to see.

Come on folks. I know William and Mikey are not repeatedly checking the thread to run up the view count. There are many readers. Please, let me know what you think. About the trigger pull or anything I have written or if you have questions I have not yet addressed.

To help clarify things,I hope. I have 2 fully assembled pistols. A Para Ordnance 9x23 for USPSA Open category use. I have a Para Ordnance 14-45 that has had some embelishments. It is for USPSA Limited competition and sometimes carry.
 I have 2 frames. An Essential Arms wide body that is a Para Ordnance semi-clone. I say 'semi' because it has some improvements, like thicker dust cover for stronger scope mounting.
The last is my 1911 that was a .45 single stack USPSA Open class pistol. I used it for years after the .38 Super wide bodies had taken over. Now it is a bare frame with the action group I selected for my set up to compete with the 'drop-in' trigger groups from several big name shops.

The Essential Arms frame with get the Dawson Precision "Signature Series Super Trigger Group". All other trigger groups will go into the 1911 frame.

[Mikey]

SharonAnne:  ya'll said - "Mikey, you think 2.5# now and not less than 1.5# after lube and spring tuning. It will be fun to see". 

Yep, sure would, especially if it decides to go into full auto.......

I honestly do not know that I would feel comfortable with a 1.5# trigger pull.  I have , umm, worked triggers to the sad point where I have had slamfires just from closing the bolt or chambering a round in a semi. 

I once had a beautiful Luger go full auto on me and although it was a lot of fun (once I got used to it) it was not really workable, so I had to fix it (dang).  I once tried lighteneing up the trigger on a 1911 in 38 Super, just a bit too much.  Oh yeah, it's fun but...............sure wakes ya right up. 

I feel a 2.5# trigger is light enough for decent target work and even competition as I feel that is about a light as you can go and still get good positive hammer/sear contact.  JMTCW.  Mikey. 

[SharonAnne]

Mikey, you are the one who said my trigger group would be 2.5# and not more than 1# lighter with lubrication. I just added the fun part. I have been using my Para 9x23 with a 1.5# trigger for over 10 years with no trouble. No hammer follow, slam fire or full auto. Top USPSA shooters run pulls as low as 14 ounces (so I have heard). I have tried the trigger on one pistol that was right at 1#. I did not like it. The owner loved it. My P14 has 2.5# and has never given me any trouble.

With these trigger groups I am not going to stone the hammers or sears or shorten hammer hooks. The only thing I will do is try different groups of parts and different lubricants. I am NOT trying for ultra light trigger pulls. I just want to see what these groups will actually do. If I get one at 2#, another at 2.5#, then 3# then 3.5# and 4# then readers will be able to pick the pull they want and save money on gunsmithing. Or they may want to buy the 3# group and adjust the leaf spring to get a 4# pull. 

If any of them go full auto it will be the fault of the parts since I will not modify any of them. My 1911 .45 ran for over 10 years with a 2.25# pull with hammer hooks at 0.020" and a 17# mainspring. I am not trying to see how light I can get one of these groups to go. I want to see what they will do installed as supplied with nothing but lubrication.

Doug Koenig once wrote about his Masters bolt action pistol, that he liked a 'heavy' trigger pull- 8oz- others had trigger pulls under 4 oz. Light or heavy is relative. I shot a bench rest rifle that had a 4 oz trigger. I heard that PPC semi auto pistols must have a pull of 4#. NRA bullseye is 4.5#. To a USPSA Grandmaster these pulls would be unacceptably heavy. For their own disciplines they are borderline light. As I gained experience I wanted lighter and lighter triggers. With my .45 I started with asking the gunsmith for 3.5# that seemed light after shooting the bullseye .45s of my NRA mentor. Later I went to 2.25# and stayed there until my Para 9x23 with 1.5#. I do not see me ever going lighter. For my AR15 I am considering a 3# Timney. Jard has a set that will go to 1.5# but I don't see how you could feel 1.5# with any kind of glove on. My Sako .30-06 was 4.5# which felt heavy but was the proverbial 'glass rod breaking' clean and worked fine with winter gloves.

Supposedly you can safely take 1911 hammer hooks down to 0.18". I have heard of some who take them to 0.14" to get that 1# pull. I really don't now why. Jerry Kuhnhausens book talks of changing the sear engagement angle to get a lighter pull. Shortening the hooks to less than 0.18" leaves you with way too little engagement length. I think the most important part is to select premium parts, leave the hammer hooks at 0.20", polish the engagement surfaces to a mirror finish, set the leaf spring as Jack Weigand recommends in the Brownells 2 1/2# trigger job article, pick your magic elixer sear/hammer hook lubricant and go shooting. There is never any need to cut hammer hooks too short or alter sear engagement angles. I am not saying I know more than Mr Kuhnhausen, he just showed HOW to get a lighter pull with altered sear angles, he did not recommend them. With todays premium parts anyone should be able to get as light a trigger as they would ever need without making dangerous alterations to hammers and sears. EGW claims with their premium trigger group, that Mickey Fowler tweaked the sear spring and had a sub 2# trigger pull. That should tell us we don't have to alter good parts. But some super duper junior woodchuck, working on his gunsmith badge will have to show he knows more than the guys who design the parts by altering sear engagement angles and shortening hammer hooks to nubbins to get that super light pull that machine guns in a light breeze.

This is just a quest for knowledge. I don't know anything that I did not learn from someone else. I invented nothing. Even my 3 chamber 4 port comp idea came from a WWI artillery piece. I'm just a fat busted up ol' gal looking to learn something new and share it.

[Mikey]

SharonAnne:  this is very interesting information on the hammer hook engagement surfaces in conjunction with trigger pull weights.  Thank you!   I guess there had been a, ummmm, slight bit too much removed from the 'parts' when they got stoned and smoothed out..........figures............

You also said your 1911 with a 2.25# trigger pull and a 17# recoil spring ran for 10 yrs - that's fabulous!  What was your favorite load and how clean or dirty did it run??.

Regarding the lubricants:  I would assume that running a 1911 in one of your matches consumes a lot of ammo.  Which lubricants have you found to work best: providing the best lubrication but without excess buildup and accumulation of dirt.  I tried that one new product, Best Line I think it is, on my Mini-14 and it seemed to work very well. I didn't go out and thrown the thing in a mudpuddle or shovel sand into the action but it seemed to work well. 

I have also used it on my 1911s but I seem to build up crud and dirt within about 100 rounds or so.  I don't know if it is the powder/charge I'm using or just my particular 1911 but it is not a combination I want to take to the range while wearing a white shirt.......

My ballistic goal with my particular loadings is to mimic mil-spec with a 230 gn bullet (jacketed rn or swc or cast swc) at approximately 875'/sec.  My charges of Unique powder seem to be a bit dirty.  I would like to think about using a cleaner buring powder but don't want to get too close to max pressures with some of the faster buring powders.   

Ramble ramble ramble..... Mikey.

[SharonAnne]

Back in the mists of time, before the earth cooled, and before compensators I used a 200 gr SWC over a charge of 5.7gr of WW231. When I put a comp on my 45 I started with the 200 but it leaded the comp terribly. I went to the 185 then 175gr. Of these the 175 leaded the comp the least. Then one year at the USPSA nationals someone had a new bullet. A 155gr SWC. Once I found a good load, as I recall it was a near max load of AA#9 at around 1200fps. It worked the comp great and leaded the comp not at all. Most thought, from the way the gun handled, that it was a 38Super. It was a dirty load, with the greasy/waxy lube it mixed with powder residue into a thick black gunk. The 45 was loose so it didn't hurt function any. I would start the cleaning process with a small knife to cut the worst buildup off the frame. Then I used a disc brake cleaner to remove the rest. It left the parts clean and dry. Then a light coat of BreakFree CLP and away I went. I used Trigger Slick on the sear/hammer hook interface. Later I added a 50/50 mix of lithium grease and CLP to lube the comp cone and the barrel lugs and legs. I got that idea from Jerry Barnhart in the 80s. I am sure he uses something else now.
I have not shot the 45 comp gun in over 10 yrs. The slide is damaged. My Para 14-45 I shoot so little I have used white box 230s. I have not shot at all for about 4 years because of my health and injuries.

  I do so terribly miss practical shooting. For years it was pretty much what I identified myself by.

Then I was an RN and I truly found my calling. As some find theirs in religion, I found mine in treating those in need. Few things make you feel better than to have a sick person say, "oh good, you are my nurse tonight". Now I can no longer be a nurse. Since I am disabled I cannot teach. All nursing school teachers must also be practicing nurses. Not many know that.

So now I pass on what I learned from many years of competitive shooting. There is not much new in setting up an auto pistol for competition. Oh there are a myriad of variations on a theme, such as the artistic cutouts on a slide, and the various sizes, shapes, and numbers of chambers and ports in a compensator. Very few make a difference in actual performance.

The more I think about it the more I think that the ports on a compensator should be on the sides. Perhaps 4 chambers with 8 graduated ports of increasing size. If almost all recoil is eliminated then there will be no muzzle jump. I saw a compensator like that in a magazine, although the ports were identical. Wish I knew the shooter.

Ah well, life goes on, one painful step at a time.

[fastbike]

I have nothing to add other than this has been one of the most "practically" informative threads I have ever read. Thanks to all of the contributors.

[SharonAnne]

Fastbike, thank you! It is wonderful to actually hear from someone rather than just seeing the view count go up.  Thanks again for the kind comment.

[Mikey]

SharonAnne:  Ah yes, thick black gunk...I used to use carboreautor cleaner to get that stuff out but then just went back to kerosene/diesel fuel or Army bore cleaner as that seems to work just as well.

I can understand why 5.7 gns of 231 and a 200 gn or less weight bullet would gunk up a gun - some 231 charges run a full grain or more with a 200 gn jacketed bullet and about the same with cast - my thought is the easier the charge/lower pressure the less complete buring you get and gunk is the result.  Same sort of thing with Unique and mil-spec ballistics - I've been using 6.5 gns under 230 gn jacketed fmjs (old Lyman manual load) but that runs to the dirty side-have thought of going to 231 but would need a heavier charge - I might even try a heavier charge of Unique (from some loadings in the Midway Load Map) to see if that burns cleaner.

I am sorry to hear that you can't enjoy shooting as often as you have previously;  white box ammo must be disappointing............ I am also sorry to hear about your nursing career.

I think that if the ports on the compensator were on the sides you would probably have the same effect as with the Krinkov stabalizer (side cutouts) on the AK....lots of noise and blast out the sides but little recoil or climb reduction.  If you are going to reduce gas pressure and use physics to obtain the reduction you will need to vector the gas forces to counter both the rearward recoil of the pistol as well as the climb and relief ports cut perpendicular to the bore don't work as well as we would think. 

Nursing - interesting, good field.  Mikey.

[SharonAnne]

Thank you Mikey. Nursing is an excellent field. You do something that is good for your soul and make good money too. Win/Win. With 6 fused vertebrae I cannot do that anymore.

5.7gr of 231 with a 200gr hard cast SWC was the standard major load when the  plain ol' 45/1911 was king of IPSC. It made major nicely. Then came compensators, the 38super, then wide bodies, and finally scopes. The rate of change was breathtaking. It has been stable for over 10 years now. The 'weapons race' is over. I had friends that had 5 Les Baer 38 super full race single stacks. About $14,000 in pistols that are no longer competitive in any class. That was a scary time to be trying to be competitive and not go broke.

Today makes one week since I announced that I had installed my selection of action parts in my 1911 frame. I have had only 2 people give opinions on what the trigger pull is. I will wait until later today to announce it to give others a chance to chime in.

Come on folks, I don't bite. If I like you I might nibble!!

[SharonAnne]

I am disappointed. Over 300 views since my last segment and only 2 opinions on possible trigger pull wt. and 3 personal comments.

Well, the winner is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Mikey. The pull wt. of my selection of action parts assembled dry is exactly 2.5#. That is a big surprise to me. I thought it would be heavier. I have no doubt that with lubrication and mild leaf spring tweaking, or simply installing the titanium leaf spring, that my target wt. of 1.4-1.8# is very reachable.  As I said, with the premium parts available today, getting  a good trigger pull without resorting to dangerous modifications is much easier than it was 20, 10 or even 5 years ago. The era of the truly 'drop-in' trigger job may have arrived.

I just sold some STI/PARA magazines so I can buy a few more parts. Top 2 are the titanium leaf spring for the 1911 and the Dlask medium trigger for the EA/Para lower. If I can swing it I will also buy the Lyman electronic trigger pull gauge. It is a strain gauge and stores up to 10 pulls and internally averages them. Way cool!

[Mikey]

SharonAnne:  What?  Me?  I won?  (stated with a voice of incredibility and wide eyes).  Wow! I is a winna.........but what did I win?  Do I get a kewpi doll?  Free trigger job??  How about a free 'fitting the barrel to the slide' job?? 

Please notice I have not yet asked for a hug anna kiss.................! 

I figured about 2.5 lb only because I have put together trigger systems before and found when and where I have to adjust to get the dang system working before I have even completed the process.  Then when I got it all figgered out I would deburr or break the edges on some of the parts (trigger bars mostly), lube it up and the system would be ready for use.  I never said I could use the thing well, I just said it would be ready for use......

I fully agree with you about the improvements in parts and systems offerings over those of past years.  That being said however one must know the thrill of awaiting the impending burst of full-auto fire as one trips the trigger for the first shot out of the magazine whilst onna indoor range, and hoping to be able to control the recoil so ya don't shoot holes in the ceiling above, which is also a floor........ Yet, I must agree that the era of a 'ready to go' 'drop in trigger system' has arrived. 

I have two more issues I wish to discuss, the number of views and the number of opinions.....

Number of views:  tree hunnert is a lot, but like all true men we will read something of interest and then say to ourselves - I knew that (maybe) and go on to read something else (and when discussion comes up we will say - I've read that somewhere).  Also, let's not forget that your brief essays are really very scholarly, detailed and very informative, and not so many of the folk who actually get into the innards of the 1911 for anything other than cleaning will fully understand writings of that detail.  Hence, only two opinions.  Also, most guys have these 'things' at the ends of their wrists that seem to hold the 1911 just right and if it works properly there is little need (gender bias)to get into the finite details of 'how' it works.

Two opinions - on my part it was largely luck, some guesswork and a little bit of experience.  William Layton may know what he's talking about more than I do as the tew of yew have 'dropped a few names', so to speak and he seems to have been around almost forever ya know, sorta like when the first 1911 came out (snicker, giggle, lol).  I wonder if I need to ask if yew tew have ever cast slow glances at each other from across a crowded room (when you were much younger and he wasn't)?

I think I had a few more things to ramble on about but being as old as I am, yet probably not as old as William Layton, I has forgot. 

But thank you for letting me step into the winner's box, eye appreciates it.  Mikey.

[SharonAnne]

Hi Mikey. You don't want me doing a barrel fitting since I have no idea how. Kewpie doll?? How many on here know what that is? Trigger job, ok, you buy the parts-good parts
 XXXXXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOOOOO Internet hugs and kisses. How about my admiration?
 Casting slow glances across a crowded room, hmmmmmmmmm. Interesting. At my 'coming out' party I am sure Who remembers coming out parties?

Informative, ok. Detailed, yes. Scholarly? Thanks but I think that is overstating it.

Name dropping, ouch! I never intended it as such. I have mentioned some well known shooters that I was acquainted with 20 years ago. As I have said, I had a 2 day semi-private lesson with Rob Leatham and a one day private lesson with Jerry Barnhart.  Jerry also would occasionally shoot our Thursday night indoor matches or our weekend USPSA matches. Jerry lived quite close to our range. I learned a lot from those lessons and would pick Jerrys' brain at local events, as we all do (did in my case) with Rob since I am know in Phoenix. You can pick up quite a bit watching, listening and asking. We all do it. I just happen to have this forum to pass on what I have learned. I mention them not to elevate my status but to validate the information I have passed on that has been under their scrutiny.
Hundreds of Rio Salado shooters have the good fortune to shoot with the likes of Matt Burkett, Don Golembeski, Rob, Vick Pickett and before their retirement, Tawn Ageris, Pom Samerpong, Brian Enos and before he moved, Jake Kempton and many more who filled the ranks of the USPSA nationals shoot offs every year.  Rio Salado is a Mecca for practical shooters. I know of 4 people who moved here just because of the shooters at Rio Salado. They are approachable, friendly and happy to answer questions. Questions that others fly half way around the world and pay thousands of dollars to have answered.

.... more later, I am falling asleep

[fastbike]

 Ok, if that's the way you're going to be.  I know what a kewpie doll is. I am old enough to have seen/won some. I also know what a coming out party is. Being of the "manly" persuasion, i have never had one but have been invited to few. Also been forbidden to appear at some (think of the Sawyer Brown song "Some Girls Do".

You all have way more technical knowledge than I do. I just shoot, clean, and reload for the .45acp.

[SharonAnne]

Fast, nice to know there are some out there of my age persuasion.

I see your avatar is a Triumph. Is it a Bonneville or Thruxton?

You say we all have more technical knowledge than you. However I am sure you are very familiar with the workings of your 'fastbike'. I know how to ride them, but not work on them. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I happen to have a small strength with 1911s. I do NOT know how to fit a barrel. I DO know who to ask to fit it for me. I also cannot checker, mill a slide, or fit a barrel bushing.

I have been around for many of the changes in USPSA and the 1911/2011 evolution. Having seen it or knowing who made certain things does not make me an expert, just someone who has been present when history happened.

[fastbike]

It was a blacked out Bonnie (a fair bit of powder coating). Traded it on a Tiger 1050 because the Bonnie was a bit slow and a bit of a harsh ride for Texas roads. I am familiar enough with the workings of my various guns to let someone good do significant work. I'm just shooting for fun, rather than competition, so mainly stock guns work for me. I do modify grips and things to my liking, but have stayed away from trigger work (unless you count the el-cheapo approach with my Blackhawk).

Curiously, the longest I've owned a bike without modifying it has been three days.

Fast, nice to know there are some out there of my age persuasion.

I see your avatar is a Triumph. Is it a Bonneville or Thruxton?

You say we all have more technical knowledge than you. However I am sure you are very familiar with the workings of your 'fastbike'. I know how to ride them, but not work on them. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I happen to have a small strength with 1911s. I do NOT know how to fit a barrel. I DO know who to ask to fit it for me. I also cannot checker, mill a slide, or fit a barrel bushing.

I have been around for many of the changes in USPSA and the 1911/2011 evolution. Having seen it or knowing who made certain things does not make me an expert, just someone who has been present when history happened.

[Mikey]

Not to switch topics here but Fastbike, did you say you powder coated a Bonnie?  And didja also say the Bonnie was a bit slow??  Traded it for a Tiger???  Last Bonnie I had was a Special - never lost to a Tiger......................

Gar! 

[Stuart C.]

Sharon Anne,

This thread is an amazing dixplay of your techical expertise with the 1911 platform, among other things.

Back to the original question; if you could possibly dumb this down for the pikers like myself just getting started, what 1911 would you buy for casual target work and hd, and what one or two simple mods would you consider to be must-dos in order to enhance reliability and accuracy?

Thanks so much.

[SharonAnne]

Stuart

The segments thus far are answers to part of your original question. What modifications would I make and why? As I said when I started this thread, I would tell what mods I would make, and why, but I would also cover alternatives.

I do not consider the questions regarding getting started as "dumb down".

What would I buy for casual target work and home defense?

   There are several fine low cost (relatively) 1911 pattern .45s on the market. Most come from the Phillipines and Brazil. If you want to buy American you will pay more. I do not advocate buying a very basic model and then modifying it. With the selection of pistols today you can buy pretty much what you want, or very close to it, from what is offered. Of course you pay more but it is less costly than having a gunsmith modify a basic GI pattern 1911. Just go to any smiths web page and look up what it costs to have a part installed, then add in the cost of the part. Selecting an appropriate model with the parts you want is more economical. For instance, you can get a very fine Open class comp gun for under $2000. My basic .45, very modified over several years, had cost well over $3000. "Do overs" are costly.

The GI pattern 1911 has sights that are too small for rapid acquisition. Most find the grip safety too short and narrow for comfort. The long spur hammer does a fine job performing 'hammer bite'. For very little more  $$ than a basic model you can have the 'good stuff' for much less than gunsmith installed parts.

Instead of "must-dos" I prefer 'must haves'.

I must have good sights, a tall black rectangle in front is fine. Fiber optic front sights are very popular and available on relatively low cost 1911s. For the back sight I prefer a wide square notch set in a flat surface. I do not care for a rear sight with too much 'going on'. Just plain and flat will do, fine serrations to reduce glare are good too. Again, some like fiber optic rear sights and they don't cost as much to get as a 'factory install' than they would to remove a factory sight and install the new one.

Many companies have models with a rowel (commander type) hammer already installed. This goes a long way to reducing 'hammer bite'.

The GI type grip safety, even with a rowel hammer, will bite the web of your hand. If you shoot enough you will get two parallel red marks, growing into small cuts, matching the lower edges of the grip safety. If you take time off between shooting sessions this will callus. If you get all gung-ho and shoot several times a week it will not callus, it will bleed. Been there, done that. The 'beaver tail' grip safety will remedy that. If you start with a beaver tail you will prevent it.

I also 'must have' a good trigger. What is a 'good trigger'?  It is in fact a good trigger 'pull'. The trigger is just the shooter interface with the hammer release mechanism.

So, a good trigger is one with:

minimal takeup-movement before the hammer falls. You cannot have no movement. You must have some for the mechanism to work.

a 'crisp' release. One that is close to the proverbal 'glass rod breaking'. I do not want a 'gritty' feel as the sear releases.

minimal overtravel- as little as possible trigger travel after the sear releases. Again, you cannot have none, but it can be very little. This is where your 'over travel screw' can get you into trouble. Some shooters adjust it for minimum over travel and get unreliable firing. The screw is right at the point where the sear may or may not release. A little over travel won't hurt.

For pull weight around 4-4.5# is good. If you think you might want to do some NRA bullseye shooting, you will need 4.5#; at least that was the requirement the last I heard. Most other organizations do not have a set minimum.


For home defense some like night sights. They are vials of radioactive tritium installed in the regular sights. Of course you must have a 'relatively' wide front sight to allow installation. Some do just the front sight, others do front and rear. On the rear you can have dots, a horizontal bar or vertical bars, depending on the sight picture you prefer. How dark your house is after you go to bed will determine if they might be useful for you.

There you have it. With the exception of night sights you have my 'must haves'.

Everything else comes under my 'nice to have' or my 'I REALLY want it' categories.

[williamlayton]

Couldn't have lost too a better guy.
Missed most of this fun while I and the Hen were leaf peeping, sounds as though it has been fun---I know we had fun.
Blessings

[davidsan]

Sharon Anne,Thanks so much for all the time and effort you put into this.I have learned and enjoyed the reading at the same time.

[SharonAnne]

thank you Davidson. I hope to continue soon.

[SharonAnne]

if it is not one thing it is another. I think the IRS problem is over but now I may not have health insurance because of Social Security. Reminds me of the Chinese curse. May you live in interesting times.

I will try to finish up the mag well segment in the next couple of weeks. Then I will do the mag catch. After that we move to the top end.

I hope you all had a good holiday season.

[SharonAnne]

I won't bore you with my problems, this time.

You folks have embarrassed me. Over 4200 views. I shall buckle down and get to work on finishing the mag well and mag catch and start on the top end.

[SharonAnne]

as I was saying ;  the magazine well or mag well for short. Any of us who have tried a speed reload with a standard mag well have felt the sting of having your palm captured between the magazine and the front corner of the mag well. There is that notch where the toe of the magazine fits. I have 2 scars from having left some of me between the magazine and the mag well. Ouch and blood loss.

The first remedy for this was to bevel the mag well at a 45 to 60 degree angle leaving a thin flat between the bevel and the outer edge of the frame. It is important to leave that flat or you will have a knife edge and that will be worse. This will help to speed the reload but do nothing for the loss of skin. At the notch at the front strap you must relieve that edge at about 60 degrees also. Some gunsmiths would bevel the sides but ignore the front.

At one time Wilson had a nifty plastic mag well that fit over the grip screw bushings. This took care of both problems. I think this is no longer available but they do make a metal one but I liked the plastic one better. There are several add on mag wells, some are held on by a longer mainspring housing pin, others are attached to the mainspring. One kind is pinned on, another is integral to the mainspring housing.

There was one smith who swaged the lower grip frame to open the mag well. It was difficult and costly but wow it worked and boy did it impress.

Then there are the kind that require milling the grip frame to shorten it. Most are silver soldered or welded on. One I have seen has a slot milled on the grip frame and the well is slid in from the back and held in place by the mainspring housing. Mine is silver soldered on, actually they are each silver soldered, the 1911 .45ACP and the Para Ordnance 9x23.

You can find examples of all in Brownells or Speedshooters Supply and many other reputable sources. This pretty much covers mag wells.


Next we have the magazine catch or mag catch for short. The standard mag catch is totally functional. Then there are those of us who want to eject magazines in a hurry. Some of us are happy to just have a longer thumb lever. Others like a larger diameter longer button. You can find magazine buttons in all shapes and sizes. I found I could not use any kind of lengthened or large diameter button because of how I grip the pistol. I would eject the magazine with the heel of my left hand.

I found the mag catch of my dreams in 1987 or '88 at PASA. This was the first time S&A displayed their ambidextrous mag release. They put a lever on the right side that you pushed with your right trigger finger. For me it was a God send. When I took my semi-private lesson with Robbie he said he thought it was a brilliant idea. I asked why he did not use one and his answer was the same reason as mine for the large left side button. With his grip he would eject the magazine with the inside of his right hand.

You can now have a right side only mag release. However it IS right side only. I have not examined one, only seen their advertising.  I have actually heard of more lefties using the ambi mag release that righties.

As with so many other things on the 1911 you really should try several sizes and shapes before deciding. Try to find someone with an ambi mag release before committing to it. You could put a large mag button on the left side of the ambi and have the best of both worlds I guess.

I will try very hard to not take so long to get to the top end.   

[Mikey]

Well, since you haven't been around in over 3 years I would say that we embarrassed you pretty badly, for which you have my apologies.....