Author Topic: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN  (Read 15151 times)

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Offline buckslugger

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Re: My Second .45
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2008, 02:52:45 PM »
OH MY I LOVE OLD FAT BUSTED UP GIRLS !!!!!!!!!!

HEHEHEHE GOOD READ SHARON


OLD FAT BUSTED UP ROY (SINGLE ) HAHAHA
live life large

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2008, 09:26:01 PM »
  (blush) why thank you kind sir! (curtsy)   yeah right. like I ever could  ;)   Roy, again thank you. I am glad you are enjoying the thread.

sorry folks. I am not going to get part 3 done tonight. It is late and I am hurting. I promise to do my best to get it done before supper time today (much later today).

With my health problems I sleep poorly and often nap. I was sound asleep at 5p.m. m.s.t.
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2008, 10:55:01 AM »

  IF I WERE STARTING OVER AGAIN, THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO

   segment #3

   Triggers

   The 1911 pistol had a short trigger. The 1911A1 had a long trigger. Or vice versa, I forget. It isn't important. It shows that trigger lengths have changed to suit shooter needs. Today triggers come in a dizzying variety of lengths, materials, shapes and even colors.

   You can't even count on the stated lengths. One brands long is another brands short. Check actual lengths IE: measurements.

   Lengths - here are the stated lengths for 3 triggers in sizes short, medium and long. Again I used Brownells catalog for reference.

   The triggers surveyed are: STI wide body w/ stainless steel bow and carbon fiber trigger  SS/CF
                                        SVI wide body w/ titanium bow w & wo ball bearing  and trigger base, with aluminum trigger  Ti/AL
                                        Dlask wide body w/titanium bow and magnesium trigger           Ti/Mg

   You can see we have 5 materials in 3 brands of triggers. 

   Stated lengths                 SVI short curved    2.100"
                                        Dlask short            2.124"
                                        Dlask medium         2.187"
                                        SVI short flat         2.200"
                                        SVI long curved      2.300"
                                        STI short               2.310"
                                        Dlask long               2.335"
                                        SVI long flat            2.400"
                                        STI long                  2.440"

   Three stated sizes S/M/L and we get NINE lengths. SVI short flat is longer than Dlask medium.  STI short is longer than SVI long curved and Dlask medium.

   I feel my headache coming back.

   I am now going to make my headache worse. We will look at the SVI Interlocking Trigger System. With it we have 2 bows, regular and Tri Glide (w/a ball bearing), 6 trigger shapes and lengths (short flat, long flat, short curved, long curved, curved top, curved bottom), 4 trigger colors and 4 trigger Interlock base colors.
   
          2 x 6 x 4 x 4 = 192 possible combinations in the SVI Infinity Interlocking Trigger System.

   Previously we had 2,880 possible combinations of Mainspring Housing and Grip Safety shapes, materials, etc. To that we now throw in 192 trigger combinations.

   2,880 x 192 = 552,960   Over a half million combinations of Mainspring Housing, Grip Safety and Trigger. That does not include different brand names.  I wonder if this is what a stroke feels like?


Try different triggers ( lengths and shapes) as you have mainspring housings and grip safeties.   


Next time we will look at the hammer group.


now, where did I put that tylenol?

SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Broom Rider

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Re: My Second .45
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2008, 12:30:35 PM »
Thanks for the article.
I find that as I learn more about a certain type or style of gun I also develop my own preferences which makes the choices a little bit easier and when it doesn't I have Advil near.
Lynnie, NRA Life Member

Offline williamlayton

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Re: My Second .45
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2008, 01:17:34 AM »
Dang it all girl. Bad enough you give yourself a headache---but then you pass it on.
My friend Buddy is into all of this stuff---we correspond and I get fidgety just trying to decipher what it is that is getting him so hot and bothered---though he does end up with some pretty impressive guns.
I tend towards the reliable and don't worry about the games end of the sport---just my choice.
I, also, enjoy the read.
I understand the thoughts, they just don't get me as worked up as it does you and Buddy.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2008, 07:38:07 AM »
Me? Get worked up?!? Who said I get worked up? Where are they? (grabbing colt .45acp and machete) Let me at 'em!!!! I'll show you who gets worked up.


Blessings
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Mikey

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Re: My Second .45
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2008, 01:59:17 PM »
This is where I start asking myself if the light really goes off in the refrigerator when I close the door...............

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2008, 04:09:34 PM »
mine does. I got inside to find out! p)
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline buckslugger

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Re: My Second .45
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2008, 11:47:15 PM »
talk about worked up,, i walked out of the gun shop friday with a new 45 (rock island) and a new to me beretta cx4 carbine,

WOW,POPPA GOT A BRAND NEW THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    felt like a kid, no sleep that night, got to shoot them a few rounds each out back yesterday ,,,at least i could sleep last night for work today,hehehe


roy
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Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45 / If I Were Starting Over Again
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2008, 04:39:58 PM »
 If I Were Starting Over Again, This Is What I would Do

Segment #4

  Hammer Group

  I am not going as in depth as I did with Triggers.

  Hammers     Titanium          -126gr   (an experiment from the late 1980s)
                   Koenig light     -160gr
                   Slotted SS       -205gr  (from my old 1911/.45)
                   Burr w/hole      -275gr  (this is an OEM Para Ordnance hammer, see note at segment end)
                   The Cylinder and Slide light hammer would be between the Koenig and the Slotted Stainless Steel but I don't have one to weigh.

   Hammer Strut
                    Titanium          -29gr
                    Blue steel        -58gr


   Mainspring Cap
                    Titanium          -16gr
                    Stainless steel   -47gr

  Mainspring Housing

                     Plastic            -224gr
                     Aluminum        -306gr
                     Blue Steel       >510gr  My scale only reads to 510gr. Subjectively it feels heavier than the Aluminum and Plastic combined.
                                                      Anyone with a digital scale please weigh a steel mainspring housing and let us know the weight.

  Para Ordnance Magazine Catch         
                     Plastic          - 22gr
                     Blue Steel     -118gr

  Para Ordnance Wide Body Triggers I have on my bench
                     Dlask Ti/Mg     - 72gr
                     SS/Composite -108gr   
                     Long Al/SS     -123gr

  The mainspring and mag catch wt are only of interest if you are concerned about total wt or want to change the balance of your pistol.

  Trigger and Hammer group wts ARE of interest because they affect LOCK TIME. That is the time between the sear release and the hammer striking the firing pin. While the Trigger wt does not directly affect lock time it does affect trigger reset time.

  Let's compare heavy hammer group and light hammer group weights.

                            Koenig light hammer    -160 gr.     Slotted Stainless Steel  -205gr
                            Titanium hammer strut -28gr         BS hammer strut          - 58gr   
                             Ti mainspring cap      - 16gr         SS mainspring cap       - 47gr
                                 
                               Total                      -204gr                                       -310gr

 So, the heavy hammer is the same wt as the light hammer GROUP! I don't know the calculations for reduction in lock time, but being 1/3 lighter the light group will be substantially faster.  I did not use the heaviest hammer because it is ugly and I have never seen anyone use it.  I also did not use the lightest hammer because Titanium hammers are seldom recommended. They need frequent stoning to maintain hook integrity.

  I could not find my Ti firing pin to weigh. I stopped using it because I had frequent misfires that went away when I put the steel firing pin back in. I know few gunsmiths or shooters who recommend them. Well, actually I don't know any!

 Just for perspective, an ounce is 437.5 grains. In our comparison the light group is 106gr lighter. That is 0.24 oz. lighter. 1/4 oz. in those 3 tiny parts. That is HUGE regarding lock time!  You can lose more with the Ti hammer if you are willing to visit your gunsmith more often, or spend the money for the jigs and stones,  and learn to do your own hammer and sear work. Either way, a large commitment to lose 34gr. or 0.08 oz.

Getting back to 'If I Were Starting Over Again, This Is What I Would Do'

 I would select a checkered arched mainspring housing. Steel if I was not concerned about weight. Aluminum or Plastic if I had to make weight.
 Grip Safety- I have both Wilson/Clark and Brown type grip safeties. They each fit ME well. I select the Brown because it fits the pistol better. With the compound curve of the W/C type, you need plenty of grip frame extension for a great fit. The 2 pistols I have with the W/C type lack some material to make a great fit. Yes, if your smith is a great welder it can be welded up for fitting. My smith chose to not weld and the fit while good, could be better.
 Trigger- I select the Dlask medium trigger. It is the lightest available and the medium fits my length of pull best.
  Hammer group- that is easy. I select the light group above for exactly the reason above. It is lightest and the Koenig hammer is one of the very best available.

 One part I did not touch on is the sear. The lightest is the Cylinder and Slide ultra match sear. The best sear is a toss up. C&S ultra match, EGW, Brown Hardcore, STI/SVI. You will not go wrong with any of them.
  Disconnectors are another vital part. C&S has an ultra light ultra match. EGW has a longer disconnector. Take you pick. Again, C&S, EGW, Brown, STI/SVI. All excellent.

 In my Para Ordnance 9x23 open pistol, I have the heavier Koenig hammer (still very light), an EGW sear  and a disconnector that my smith selected. I told him I wanted the Koenig hammer, not knowing there were 2. He used what he had on hand. No gripes though.  My trigger breaks at 1.75#, clean and crisp, no creep, no follow through.

  So, If I Were Starting Over, I would select the C&S ultra match sear and disconnector. My gun, my pick. As I said, there are EXCELLENT alternatives.

 Now we have covered almost all of the small frame parts, almost.



October 2/2008   I found out that the heavy, ugly hammer I did not use for the heavy trigger group is, in fact, an old OEM Para Ordnance hammer. It has a very odd hammer hooks and half cock notch. The lower part of the hammer is round with square cuts for the hammer hooks and half cock notch. Very difficult to stone the hammer hooks.
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline williamlayton

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Re: My Second .45
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2008, 10:04:12 PM »
I must say that I like the way you think thru the process of options--not that I or all would ever agree on the ends,,,,buttt--I like the way you come at things.
I am not a BIG fan of titanium and light does not enter into my thinking for my desires.
I really am enjoying.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45/ If I Had It To Do Again
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2008, 01:56:04 PM »
William, as we saw, there are over a half million possible combinations in just 3 parts. If people did not have different ideas/tastes we would not have so many. Obviously these are MY selections. I was asked for a what would i do if i was starting over, this is what I would do. So I AM stating MY preferences but as I stated before starting this thread tangent, I wanted people to learn what is available and WHY I select what I do. The WHY is important for shooters to make informed choices for their perfect pistol.

Thank you for your kind words



Blessings ;)
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45/If I Had It To Do Again
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2008, 03:44:00 PM »
I just spent an hour and a half doing my next segment. I went to the net to check the spelling of a mans name. When I went back to my post only the first 4 lines were there. I just do not have the energy to redo it today. Sorry folks. I only have so much energy each day and I have expended todays alotment. I will try to redo it on paper so I won't lose everything if the net bites my tush again. Maybe tomorrow. Again, sorry.
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline williamlayton

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Re: My Second .45
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2008, 11:54:55 PM »
I have been waiting---hope all is well.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2008, 03:28:56 PM »
Hello. Sorry I have been gone so long. I have not been well but am doing some better now.


If I Was Doing It Over Again:  Segment 5


Frame Modifications

1911s are all pretty much the same size and shape.

Then we have the 1911 wide body semi-clones such as the STI/SVI modulars, Para Ordnance and Essential Arms (a product improved Para clone). In between there is the Caspian wide body. With factory options you can have the Caspian about any way you can imagine.

 We have covered the back with the mainspring housing and grip safety. We have similarly covered the internals.

For the sides we have grips in various materials and thicknesses. AFS Tech Slim Tech Grips are laminated wood, laser checkered and 3.8mm thick. Alumagrip Slim Line 1911 grips are as you guessed, aluminum and slim at 3.9mm. I had a beautiful set of Carbon Creations carbon fiber grips in dark blue. They were fairly thick at 6.3mm. Back in the mists of time I had really thick, checkered pewter grips that weighed 10 oz. Yep, over half a pound in the grips!
Pachmyer Signature Combat Grips are checkered rubber and wrap around so you get improved grip on the front strap also.

Grip enhancers.

The cheapest is Pro-Grip. I think I mentioned it before. Next is grip-tape. It is available die cut to fit. You can substitute stair tread tape or skate board tape.

Checkering/Stippling

This is usually done on the grip frame front strap, front of the trigger guard, mainspring housing and sometimes the underside of the trigger guard-why? I do not know. Checkering can be hand cut, machine cut or a checkered insert welded in place. It varies by lines per inch (lpi). The most common seems to be 20 lpi; that is what I have on my Colt 1911 and my Para 9x23. It is rather coarse. Next most common is 30 lpi. I think it too fine for front straps.  In between is 25 lpi and is what I will have done next time. Decorative or matt checkering in 40 and 50 lpi is sometimes done on the back of the slide and sight blade. When done well it is truly artistic! See Pistol Dynamics web page for a fabulous example.
Stippling is usually done on the perimeter by hand with a punch and hammer and filled with an air punch. It gives a good grip but is less aggressive than checkering. I have both my Colt 1911 and Para 9x23 grip safeties stippled on the lower half for better grip, above the checkered mainspring housing.

Grip Frame –
High cut front strap- cutting a smaller radius at the front strap/trigger guard transition supposedly gives you a higher grip. It does not. We all shoot with the middle finger pressed against the underside of the trigger guard. What this smaller radius does is close your grip. I find it more comfortable and maybe more stable. Maybe this is what makes a better grip.

Now with the modular plastic grip frames you CAN get a higher grip. The front strap IS cut higher than the bottom of the trigger guard. I have been away from the range for awhile so I do not know if it is popular or just well advertised. With the high cut it looks to me that your trigger finger is pulling UP HILL. Just a thought.

Grip Frame Reshaping

With the plastic modular grip, reshaping is easy and easy to mess up. Filing or sanding is the usual start. The S_I is checkered and quite square. Human hands are not made to hold squarish objects. Rounding off sharp corners makes it more comfortable to hold.
One of Jerry Barnharts' early grips had been so aggressively reshaped on a belt sander, if you shone a bright light into the magwell, you could see light THROUGH some of the thinner places. I hope he got them for a good discount.

Reshaping the grip using an electric soldering iron with a small tip produces a stippling effect. Use a different size tip for larger or smaller stipples.
Another technique is to carefully reshape the grip to the desired contour. An aggregate of the desired grit and color is applied over the entire grip surface. The aggregate can be very fine to very coarse, like sandpaper.

That about exhausts my knowledge of 1911-family grip modifications.

My Colt 1911A1 .45acp/modified has 20 lpi checkering on the front strap and mainspring housing, stippling on the lower half of the grip safety, Pachmyer Signature Combat grips with the front strap rubber cut off, high cut front strap and 30 lpi checkering on the front of the trigger guard with the trigger guard/dust cover transition cut square. The last 2 modifications I would not do again-a waste of money.
My Para Ordnance 9x23 Open division pistol has the high cut front strap, 20 lpi checkering on the front strap, 20 lpi checkering on the mainspring housing, stippling on the lower half of the grip safety, grip fillers to cover the back corners of the trigger bow and NO GRIPS. I am often kidded about LOSING my grips but I find my hand only very lightly touches the side of the Para Ordnance frame and does not seem to adversely affect my hold on the grip frame.


So. My picks if I were to do it again.

On the 1911:
High cut front strap
25 lpi front strap checkering
AFS or Alumagrip grip scales
25 lpi checkered mainspring housing
Stippling on lower half of the grip safety

On the Para Ordnance/Essential Arms:
High cut front strap
25 lpi front strap checkering
Die cut grip tape
Gun Craft grip fillers
25 lpi checkered mainspring housing (unless using Paras’ 20 lpi plastic msh)
Stippling on the lower half of the grip safety

IF I was to do an S_I grip:
High cut front strap
Contoured grip with medium/small stipples
25 lpi msh
Stippling on the lower half of the grip safety

I did forget the mag well and the magazine release.  They shall be left for another time.

Blessed Be

SharonAnne

 

PS  has anyone weighed a steel mainspring housing or Pachmyer Signature Combat grips???
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline williamlayton

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Re: My Second .45
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2008, 02:16:57 AM »
Dang, girl--well done--it was a long wait but surely worth it.
I am sorry too read of the continued health issues--I have prayed.
My hands don't like the higher cut front straps, just my hands, I think.
Again, well written--a great talent.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2008, 07:20:24 AM »
I will now explain why I have not yet addressed mag wells and mag catches.

I am working at putting some of the trigger groups together and checking pull weight as 'dropped in. I have the Dawson Precision "Signature Series Super Trigger Group" for my Essential Arms lower. This you will recall is to be my 'back up' for my Para 9x23 Open division pistol. I bought the kit from Dawson at the 2004 USPSA open nationals. My health went south and it has not been installed yet (the trigger group).

For my 1911 it will get my picks from the section on "Hammer Group". The parts are:

Trigger- STI Titanium bow with carbon fiber shoe. They don't make it anymore. It was in Brownells #57 but not #60. STI no longer lists it. It weighs 47gr. Even lighter than the Dlask Ti/Mg 72gr trigger.
Hammer- Koenig Premium Match Low Mass Hammer
Sear- Extreme Engineering-Extreme Ultra Low Mass Sear
Disconnector- Extreme Engineering  Extreme Race Disconnector
Hammer Strut-C&S Titanium
Mainspring Cap-C&S Titanium
Mainspring-ISMI 17# Chrome Silicon
Sear Spring- Infinity Triglide Titanium sear spring

Extreme Engineering makes many of the hammers, sears and disconnectors for Cylinder and Slide. C&S charges more.

I selected the Triglide titanium sear spring because it was the only one that said it could be used down to a 1.5# trigger pull. No other went lower than 2#. Most stated 3.5#

I want to assemble and test as many 'drop in' trigger/hammer groups as I can afford. I do not have a sales tax# so I must pay retail. I have found 6 groups I want to test but the parts cost over $1,000. I will buy one or two sets at a time, test them and then sell them to pay for the subsequent sets.

The groups are made by EGW, C&S, Nowlin, Pistol Dynamics (Paul Leibenberg),and Ed Brown (he does not have a kit but I will use his HARDCORE and PERFECTION parts.
Brazos makes a nice kit but it pretty much duplicates the C&S/Extreme Engineering parts.
You will notice I named 5 manufacturers, My selections make #6.

I had planned to include Burns Custom Pistols; he had an interesting hollowed out hammer in his set but now it looks like he went back to an ordinary Nastoff type Commander hammer. (no offense Steve. It was cool when you started it but now it is pretty much standard. Not a bad legacy.)

All sets will use a 17# ISMI chrome silicon mainspring, C&S titanium hammer strut, C&S TIN hammer and sear pins, BreakFree CLP lubrication and C&S sear spring unless they come with their own parts. For instance EGW includes a sear spring, Nowlin has a sear and mainspring (19.5#), Ed Brown includes Perfection hammer strut and a mainspring at 19#. Pistol Dynamics is complete. All will be retested with the 17# ISMI  chrome silicon mainspring.

I will also test hammer/sear treatments. EG: STP, Trigger Slick, Brownells Action Magic II and others I or readers can find. Of course there will need to be a certain order so one treatment does not assist another ie; Action Magic II being applied, then adding Trigger Slick, etc. For consistency and to save me huge amounts of time all hammer/sear treatments will be tested on MY group.

All groups will be tested on my 1911 except of course the Dawson Precision I bought for my EA. A Brownells hammer stop block will be in place and trigger pulls tested with a Lyman Electronic Trigger Gauge. The Lyman electronic gauge uses strain gauge technology and is accurate to 1/10 of an ounce. All pulls will be the average of 5.

This is very time consuming and expensive. I will be selling some guns and parts to help finance it. Now for the pitch. If anyone would like to help, by buying a set and sending it to me, I will test it, include it in the article with a note of thanks to the web page member, and return it ASAP.

Right now, with 2 trigger groups, a trigger, small parts/pins, the hammer block and Lyman pull gauge I am in for approximately $562.77.

These 2 groups I will keep. All of the others I will sell, so if you like one of the groups and would like to help please contact me. If you are worried know this; the feds take interstate internet fraud seriously and I have no intention of having tax paid room and board.

Back to the trigger kits. In the EGW web page they state Mickey Fowler dropped in their Ultimate Trigger Group, tweaked the sear spring, and had a trigger pull less than 2#.

In Brownells catalog 2007-#2, they write that the C&S Ultra Lite set can give a 2# trigger pull "without shortening the hooks to less than 0.018".

Brownells again; Nowlin Speed Demon- 3.5# "these will exceed the demands of all styles of competitive shooting"

Ed Brown, in not having a 'drop in' kit, makes no claims.

Pistol Dynamics rates their Comp II Ignition System at 2.5-3.0#. This a very involved kit containing, hammer, sear, disconnector, hammer strut, hammer strut pin, sear spring, mainspring and firing pin spring.

I, in my infinite wisdom (tongue firmly in cheek), am quite sure that I know better than some of the best pistolsmiths in the world, and have selected the best parts that will give the lightest trigger pull, without doubling, while having no creep,grit or excessive overtravel. In any case, I will stand or fall based on my selections. Heck, without my cane I fall anyway. ;)

I am hopeful that my group will produce a trigger pull of 1.4-1.8#.  Doncha jus luv predikshuns!

SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline williamlayton

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2008, 12:06:26 AM »
You are in very good company with some of your choices and your thinking.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Mikey

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2008, 12:59:54 AM »
SharonAnne:  kin ya turn thet cane into a shootin' rest??????? Just askin'.  Mikey.

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2008, 08:22:35 AM »
 :D  Mikey. I can walk a bit without it. Especially around the house where I can lean on walls and furniture. Outside I can walk maybe 50' with the cane and maybe 300' with a walker. The cane is too short to use as part of an upright bipod shooting stick setup and too long for a seated monopod. Maybe I need to get a walking staff. One of those thick sticks about 6' long. It would work as a monopod, head cracker and knee whacker. Would work well at keeping unfriendly dogs at a distance too.

Ever notice those guys on TV; wearing robes and carrying a staff. No one questions why they carry that great big stick. It just sort of goes with the robes. Robes would work great for concealed carry. Probably hide an M240 in there! HMM, some nice satin robes, full hood, in deep purple (another great band), big staff/walking stick. Cool~! Just need to remember where I put the 1911. ;)
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2008, 08:56:06 AM »
now I am confused. ok ok, more than usual. The  trigger in my 1911,the one with the carbon fiber composite shoe and titanium bow, that is no longer in Brownells or listed by STI,  IS listed as available by Dawson Precision!?!?!?!

The STI page lists a trigger that looks the same, but they describe it as having a glass filled nylon shoe and a stainless steel bow. It is absent from Brownells. It is listed in Dawson Precision as an STI 1911 trigger having a composite shoe with a titanium bow.

As I said, I am confused.
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline williamlayton

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2008, 11:44:04 AM »
Give them a call---they have always been good folks, willing too talk.
Call Dawson also.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Questor

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2008, 04:38:21 AM »
The second one is always harder than the first because with the first you've learned what you like and don't like. Then it becomes a question of finding the best for you. Good luck in the search.
Safety first

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2008, 07:06:21 AM »
my plans to test the 'drop-in' trigger groups is on indefinite hold. The IRS says I underpaid my taxes and I need cubic $$$ ASAP.

I shall try to get myself back in gear for the 'do it again' series.

Sorry for the delays.
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2008, 02:38:49 AM »
Questor, I think you need to go back to the start of this thread. It was about HOW I built my second 45.  I was then asked to give newbies insights into how to set up a single stack .45. I have been going over all the possible parts available. It can be daunting. I also have stated my selections, and why. Please review the thread and give me your feedback. You can see many have looked in on the thread but few have commented.

For those who have been following along, I will have the mag well and mag catch segment soon.

SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2008, 08:05:59 PM »
IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN

SEGMENT 6

MAGAZINE WELLS

     What it it? It is the opening in the bottom of the grip frame that the magazine fits in. On the standard 1911 it is sharp shouldered with a notch in front to fit the tab on the toe of the standard .45ACP magazine.

     The magazine fits in the mag well. No problem. So, what is the big deal?

      It is those darn competition shooters. How are they to blame? Well, they like to do things quickly. They are always in a hurry, and, since the magazine fits snugly in the magazine well, the problem with that is it is not so easy to insert a magazine into the mag well in a hurry.

      To facilitate this the first technique was to file a 45 degree angle all the way around the mag well. Now we were reloading like lightning. Some top shooters back in the early 80s claimed shot to shot reloads in 0.5 seconds. YAH, SHOOR, UH-HUH! Those claims went the way of the Great Auk ( disappeared, ah say disappeared,are ya listenin boy? who remembers Fog Horn Leg Horn) with the advent of electronic timers.

      Anyway, reloads were now easier to do fairly quickly. However, some of us found another problem. Before mag pads we were pushing directly on the bottom of the magazine floor. It is possible to pinch the fleshy part of the palm between the tab on the bottom front of the magazine and the notch in the bottom front of the grip frame. It is quite painful. Twice I left bits of my palm stuck there. One of the scars has faded. The other is still visible after 20 years.

     Enlarging the mag well was the next step. Wilson came out with a plastic add on that clipped over the lower grip screw bushing. If you put this on over a beveled mag well you had a rather large opening. Wilson also had a metal version of the same thing but I think the plastic part, besides being much cheaper, worked better.

     Around that time Behlert Precision and some others were making a metal mag well that was either silver soldered or welded to the frame. The frame was shortened by the same amount so nothing was lengthened as it was with the clip on type.

     The folks at Behlert Precision (many of whom are now at EGW) did/do what is called a Stadium Mag Well. The 1911 mag well is 0.550" wide with the Stadium Mag Well being 0.950" wide, a 73% increase. The mag well itself is 1.245" wide but the Pachmyer grips are 1.300" so there is no increase in width.

     One gunsmith, I forget who, removes part of the frame and the mag well slides on a rail just like the slide does onto the frame. It looks great but I see no advantage in this other than a really nice bit of machining. It IS costly.

     Now we have slip on mag wells from Dawson, SVI and others that are held on by a long mainspring housing retention pin. These mag wells are VERY wide, much wider than the grips, and about 1/2" longer than the grip frame. They are very functional and much less costly than the weld on kind. If you go for that style.

     I have two weld on and one Dawson Ice. My next wide body will have the weld on. I think. I already have the mag well but I think the installation is another $150.

     Wide bodies are another story for another time.

     The size and shape of metal mag wells can be quite dazzling. The mag wells of Ned Christiansen of Michigun are works of art. Sadly you cannot have Ned work on your gun. His work wait list is closed. It may reopen around 2046. Go to the Michigun web site to see his art work.

     There are many talented gunsmiths doing amazing metal work. Ask for recommendations on several 1911 type web sites. Shooters love to brag on their gunsmiths. We all think our smith is the best.



PS , will someone with a digital scale PLEASE weigh a steel mainspring housing and a Pachmyer Combat .45 grip?
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline williamlayton

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #56 on: September 26, 2008, 11:23:24 PM »
Ned and I had several conversations about 5 years ago. The conversation was over the construction of a pistol.
I should have been getting that one just about now. I love his work even more than EGW.
Do I regret not doing the deal?? Not really, my tempeture has gone down these days for those toys-----well, almost. ;)
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #57 on: September 27, 2008, 08:39:56 AM »
I remember Neds work from back in the mid to late 80s. He was way ahead of almost everyone even back then. I wish I had a pistol built by him. Back then you could have one in a few weeks. oh well. woulda, coulda, shoulda
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2008, 05:11:36 AM »
     I HAVE made a little progress with my trigger project. Before the IRS hammer fell I bought the parts for MY selection of parts, which I installed in my well worn 1911/.45acp.

     I also have the Dawson Precision Signature Series Super Trigger Group for the Para-Ordnance, now ParaUSA. It is not installed because I do not yet have the Dlask Trigger. More$$$

     For some time now I have been telling people that my 9x23 Para-Ord has a 1.75# trigger pull.
I asked my gunsmith for a 1.75# trigger pull.
He said he gave me a 1.75# trigger pull.
Perhaps it WAS a 1.75# trigger pull.

     It has always been light, crisp and reliable. However, after about 75,000 rounds on the same hammer, sear, disconnector, sear spring and perhaps 2 mainsprings, it is no longer 1.75#. It is now 1.5#. The only reasons I can think of is that the parts have 'worn in', honed to perfection, or the sear spring is weak, or both.

     This has skewed my perception of trigger pull weights. I had estimated that my Limited Para .45 was a bit less than twice the pull of my 9x23. As such I estimated it to be about 3#.  1.75x2=3.5 so a bit less = 3#. However, now I know my 9x23 is 1.5#. So, a bit less than 1.5x2=<3#. It turns out my Para .45 has not a 3# trigger but a 2.5# trigger pull.  2.5#; I always thought the  Para .45 had a heavy trigger pull. I am so spoiled by my 9x23 trigger I may not be able to hit anything with a 4# trigger pull.

     This brings us to my parts selection for the 1911/.45acp. To refresh memories-

ISMI 17# mainspring
Titanium mainspring cap
Cylinder & Slide titanium mainspring strut
Koening Premium Low Mass Hammer
Extreme Engineering/C&S Ultra Low Mass Sear
E2/C&S Ultra Light Ultra Match Disconnector
STI trigger w/Ti bow and Carbon Fiber shoe
C&S light sear spring ( I don't have the Infinity Ti sear spring yet)
C&S TiN coated hammer & sear pins

     I installed all parts dry;no lubrication of any kind. I also did not adjust the sear spring.

     Now for the teaser. I will not reveal the trigger pull weight for one week.

 During that week I am asking for feedback. I would like readers to tell me what they think the trigger pull will be. With over 400 views since my last installment I would love to hear from those readers. I know many people have looked at my writings but very few have told me what they think. Are my articles helpful or a waste of time?
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2008, 06:44:50 AM »
Way back in Segment 4 I was talking about the weights of hammers, sears, etc. I said I could not find my Titanium firing pin. Well, I found it. It had cleverly taken refuge IN the slide of my .45 comp gun. It seems that I changed only the hammer, from titanium to stainless steel. This eliminated the misfires. All that time I thought I had also replaced the firing pin with a steel one. I have been blaming titanium firing pins for misfires when in fact I had reliable ignition with the titanium firing pin when I replaced the titanium hammer with a steel one.

um, well, uh, OOPS

I weighed 3 steel .45 firing pins. The average was 68gr. The titanium .45 firing pin weighs 37gr. Just slightly more than 1/2.
When it all shakes out I will try the Ti hammer again w/ the Ti firing pin.

Other weights:  regular sear  41gr     regular disconnector  33gr.   steel firing pin 68gr.
                        E2     sear   31gr        E2   disconnector  29gr     Ti    firing pin 37gr.

If we go back to Segment 4 and take the Light and Heavy groups, then add in the Light and Heavy parts here, we get 301gr for the light group and 452 for the heavy.
While lighter sears and/or disconnectors do not contribute to lighter trigger pulls or quicker lock time, they do put less stress on the springs that have to set/reset them.

The differences are minute. Take the sear; the difference is 10gr. That is 1/700th of a pound. Not 1/7 or 1/70th but 1/700th. Or 0.0014 of a pound or 0.023 of an ounce. Reloaders have a pretty good idea what 10gr is. Not much.
Buying lighter parts to gain a speed advantage is like car racing. Speed costs. How fast can you afford to go?

Yes, the Heavy group is 50% heavier than the Light group. 151gr. that is 0.35 of an ounce. Or one 38 special bullet. 

A standard 1911A1 with a broken sear will fire every 0.1 seconds. The fastest shot to shot time I have ever heard is 0.09 seconds. So the fastest shooter can outspeed the standard parts by 0.01 second. A blink is 0.3 seconds. Unless you are REALLY world class, you, or I, do not need ultra light parts. I remember in the late 80s there was a rage of running a Commander slide with a 5" barrel and barrel weight on a 1911  standard frame. Shooters in 'C' and 'B' class thought they could shoot faster than a regular 1911 when their best shot to shot time was 0.15 seconds; a full 50% slower than a standard 1911s 0.1 second time.

But we WANT those lighter, faster parts because it makes us feel good. It is good for bragging rights and lots of discussion in chat rooms.

If you want the light, premium parts, get them. If having them makes you feel better you WILL shoot better. Shooting is so very much a mental game. I know I want them and so I bought them and installed them. With all the best parts in my 1911 the trigger pull came in at ........... gotcha. You will have to wait the full week.
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson