Author Topic: Need some more advice on what you’d pick for black bear? (Read 3650 times)

teddy12b · « **on:** May 08, 2008, 05:16:03 AM »

Ok, so I’m trying to prepare what I’ll be taking bear hunting this year and I’m not having much luck with either finding an accurate load or setting up my 45-70 right because right now I can’t hit squat at 50 yards. I was all excited about my marlin 45/70 and now it’s getting closer to the hunt and I really need to get my main weapon squared away. I'm going to work on it at the range this weekend but I'm also going to get a 2nd choice ready too.

If I can’t get my 45/70 dialed in before the hunt I feel like I have two other good options. I like hunting with leverguns and I also have a blued marlin 30-30, and a stainless Puma 44mag. The 30-30 has a scope, but the 44mag can handle some wide hard cast ammo. I’m comfortable and confident in both of these rifles, and I’m considering both of them in case I can’t get the big 45-70 shooting straight.

My question is what would be your choice between the 30-30 or 44mag? It’s a baited hunt and it’ll be close. All these calibers have gotten bears before so I can’t blame anything on the gun.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2008, 10:57:01 AM »

.30-30 with 160gr partitions. way more power than the .44mag

1sourdough · « **Reply #2 on:** May 09, 2008, 01:06:20 AM »

Of the 2 I vote 30-30 also.

jlchucker · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2008, 03:33:44 AM »

30-30- all the way! But why with a scope? At 30-30 ranges, a peep sight with large arperture is much quicker, and easier to carry around.

Perkins · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2008, 04:12:14 AM »

either would work.
however, you must keep the shots close in (no 100 yard shots).
shoot behind the shoulder and bear in mind that the heart sits very low. that is where you want to place your shot!
after the shot, give the bear some time to bleed out, stiffen up and expire.
don't run after it as soon as the bullet is out of the barrel!

SharonAnne · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2008, 04:30:58 AM »

the scope should be low power. 2x or a 1.5-4.5x or 1-4x and turned all the way down.

teddy12b · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2008, 05:02:27 AM »

I used my 30-30 last year and it's got a 3-9 Nikon on it. I kept it on 3x the whole time and it worked great for gathering more light. I'm still really hoping that my 45/70 will get shooting well. I'm going to be using a laser bore sighter on it tonight to get it closer to being squared away. I just bought the thing and hopefully it'll help!

yooper77 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 12, 2008, 08:39:33 AM »

Either the 44 Mag with 300 grain hard cast bullets or the 30-30 with 170 grain loads.

yooper77

teddy12b · « **Reply #8 on:** May 12, 2008, 09:02:25 AM »

I've got some 170gr hard cast on the way to the house right now to load up and try out in my 30-30. We'll see how well they work.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 12, 2008, 01:09:35 PM »

What have you tried in your 45-70?

I get great accuracy from hard cast 405 gr. with gas checks and 49.0 gr. of H322. At 100 yards I am getting 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups.

efremtags · « **Reply #10 on:** May 12, 2008, 02:04:33 PM »

Any or all are good. Except for some exceptional 40lbs, bear are not exceptionally tenacious, but they have long fur, clot very well. I clean shot through a smallish bear with a 300WM in 96. He only ran 75 yards, but left not 1 drop of blood except where he was hit. You really want to either anchor them or at least guarantee a double hole for tracking.

I disagree a 30-30 is way more powerful than a 44. That is not a really qualified response as the two are deigned for different design paramaters. The 44 with hardcasts will outclass the 30-30 any day of the week in pure penetration and tissue damage at 50 yard bait distances, especially out of a carbine. The 30-30 will outshoot the 44 out at 150 with good bullets, but most people I know that us the 30-30 rarely use good bullets (7.99 walmart SP specials are the norm).

Get that 45-70 goin so you can bring a real gun hunting. Try some leverloution. I had good results in the marlin. If you can keep 2" at 50-75 yards, that's all you need. The Winchestr 300gr with noslers are good as well. They will clean shoot through most black bear.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 12, 2008, 02:17:21 PM »

The 30-30 is a great bear rifle. Shoot about half way from top to bottom on the chest, as black bears have hair hanging down from the belly making it look like there chest extends lower than it really does. Also a round to the base of the skull where the neck meets the skull is a very short blood trail if you have the shooting ability. Most baited bear hunting is done at ranges of less than 50 yards. Either a shot to the base of the skull or through the lungs right behind the frond leg will give you a bear rug and a some delicious eating.

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #12 on:** May 16, 2008, 03:41:31 PM »

I've used my Ruger 44 carbine on black bear. The 300gr XTP does a very impressive job when fired at rifle velocities. Most baited stands are at 20yds, that would equate to hitting your animal with full muzzle velocity projectiles. Use a 250 Nosler Partition and you'll probably never recover a bullet.

Lots of guys use 44mag handguns and are very successful. Large diameter holes are always a good thing when shooting fatty bears.

Camp Cook · « **Reply #13 on:** May 20, 2008, 06:14:10 PM »

I have used almost every powder that can be used in a T/C Contender carbine and a Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 and have found H322 to be the very best for me.

I am not saying what is safe in your Marlin 1895 45-70 but in mine I am getting excellent accuracy/performance with any of the 300gr bullets and 54grs H322 with Win LR primers.

When I step up to 405gr hard cast gas checked bullets I stop at 52grs H322...

I even use H322 with 525gr Beartooth WLNGC's @ 1600fps and 550gr Crater's @ 1575fps.

I am actually amazed at the accuracy and fast handling of these Marlin rifles.

Do not just use my loads as I posted reduce them by at least 10% work up slowly and be safe.

As for the 44mag/30-30 debate the 44mag with proper loads will out perform the 30-30 out to 150 yards the BC's of the 30 cal bullet retains it's energy where as the 44mag starts to do the rainbow.

If you want a lever gun that is a pistol cartridge go with a Puma M92 in 454 Casull the results I am getting in my 20" barreled rifle with 240gr XTP-Mag's are over 2300fps, 300gr XTP-Mag's @ 1950fps, 355gr Beartooth & 360gr C/P hard cast gas checked are 1860fps and 405gr Beartooth WLNGC's are doing 1650fps. These are with my loads that are designed for the lower pressures of the Ruger Super Redhawks.

The bonus is that this little rifle holds 9 rounds in the mag tube and one in the chamber can't go wrong with that...

teddy12b · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2008, 02:21:57 AM »

Well I got the 45/70 out to the range last weekend and I finally got it properly sighted in. I have a leupold scout scope on it and I was surprised at how much vertical adjustment I had to make to get the rifle zeroed. The iron sights are zeroed, and the scope is set so I should be ready to go hunting. Now I'm ready to go try to hit the steel plates at different distances to get a better feel for how this handles from hunting positions.

I appreciate the help everyone!

I'm also impressed with the little puma rifles. Those things are just so light and handy holding so much ammo you can't go wrong. I love hunting with lever actions. There's just something to them that I really like.

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #15 on:** May 26, 2008, 03:03:07 PM »

For whatever it's worth, I've been shooting some 300gr Barnes TSX bullets in my 45-70 with 47.0gr IMR 4198. Accuracy is very good and recovered bullets expanded to .8"-1.0" and retained weight was 100%. Those fat TSX bullets will make mighty big holes a bear.

teddy12b · « **Reply #16 on:** May 26, 2008, 05:08:39 PM »

I have to admit that the barnes bullets have interested me in the 45/70. I had the 45/70 out today and it's dead on at 100 yards. I couldn't ask for better accuracy from a big bore lever gun. My hunting buddy was with me today and he fired a single round out of it and didn't want to shoot it anymore. Even on the lightest setting the 460gr hard cast bullet is a real kicker.

I'm still on the fence about this gun. There's plenty of great hunting options out there that won't beat me up so much. I might be developing a flinch...

Cecil · « **Reply #17 on:** May 27, 2008, 03:12:33 AM »

teddy I would drop down to 300 grain bullets it will tame the recoil a bunch

teddy12b · « **Reply #18 on:** May 27, 2008, 03:27:17 AM »

I've thought about the 300gr hard cast bullets before and I'll probably get some and try them out. For some reason originally I didn't think of 300gr bullets because they are light for that caliber, but now I'm thinking it's still a 300gr bullet and that should be just fine.

buffermop · « **Reply #19 on:** May 27, 2008, 09:25:39 AM »

12 Gage shotgun with slugs.

Cottonwood · « **Reply #20 on:** June 02, 2008, 02:45:29 PM »

Quote from: teddy12b on May 21, 2008, 02:21:57 AM

Well I got the 45/70 out to the range last weekend and I finally got it properly sighted in. I have a leupold scout scope on it and I was surprised at how much vertical adjustment I had to make to get the rifle zeroed. The iron sights are zeroed, and the scope is set so I should be ready to go hunting. Now I'm ready to go try to hit the steel plates at different distances to get a better feel for how this handles from hunting positions.

I appreciate the help everyone!

I'm also impressed with the little puma rifles. Those things are just so light and handy holding so much ammo you can't go wrong. I love hunting with lever actions. There's just something to them that I really like.

When I prepare for hunting bear, I don't use normal targets like bullseyes and or steel plates... you see I am also a bowhunter but because of a left shoulder injury that will have to pass this year. But, I use animal targets that I get at my local archery shop. Sometimes you can find life size targets which keeps you focused on what your after. These targets also have the vitals outlined with a faint line so you can see where your hitting when you check.

Just thought this would help ya out.

Ak.Hiker · « **Reply #21 on:** June 06, 2008, 06:45:39 PM »

I would consider carrying the Puma 44 Magnum lever action. I do not think you would need anything more than a good 240 grain JSP for black bear hunting.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 07, 2008, 05:35:10 PM »

Quote from: The Montanan on June 02, 2008, 02:45:29 PM

Quote from: teddy12b on May 21, 2008, 02:21:57 AM

When I prepare for hunting bear, I don't use normal targets like bullseyes and or steel plates... you see I am also a bowhunter but because of a left shoulder injury that will have to pass this year. But, I use animal targets that I get at my local archery shop. Sometimes you can find life size targets which keeps you focused on what your after. These targets also have the vitals outlined with a faint line so you can see where your hitting when you check.

Just thought this would help ya out.

Well this is probably the best advice I have seen here. My advice is no mater what the gun or caliber you chose, bullet placement will be the deciding factor. Chose a gun you shoot the best with and you will be sucessful.

blackbear · « **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2008, 02:34:54 AM »

Quote from: teddy12b on May 26, 2008, 05:08:39 PM

I have to admit that the barnes bullets have interested me in the 45/70. I had the 45/70 out today and it's dead on at 100 yards. I couldn't ask for better accuracy from a big bore lever gun. My hunting buddy was with me today and he fired a single round out of it and didn't want to shoot it anymore. Even on the lightest setting the 460gr hard cast bullet is a real kicker.

I'm still on the fence about this gun. There's plenty of great hunting options out there that won't beat me up so much. I might be developing a flinch...

Just a word of advice. I am retired now but I was a firearms instructor. If you think of heavy recoil like taking a hit in boxing or other sports it might help. Flinches are developed by anticipating unpleasant recoil. If you can prepare yourself mentally to accept the recoil as a second of discomfort to accomplish the goal of accuracy with a big bore weapon it might help you overcome the anticipation and reaction of flinching. This works if you practice and you want to shoot heavy recoil weapons. There are other things like rifle weight, ammo, stance and grip that help too. Also some of the recoil absorbing butt pads on the marked today are outstanding. My 5 children can shoot heavy recoil rifles and shotguns (3" 12 gauge slugs) without flinching. The worst thing about flinching is that it carries over into all calibers once you start. Just some free advice, worth every penny you paid for it.

teddy12b · « **Reply #24 on:** June 20, 2008, 09:09:39 AM »

You make a good point I know what you're trying to get across. For the one hunting shot that gets fired recoil really that big of a deal. Between the Army and martial arts I also understand how to take a hit too. I bought some new remington brass today for my 45/70 and I'm really hoping to find a good balance between managable recoil and good hunting accuracy. I've still got some remington 405gr JSP bullets to load up and some 405gr Cast to load down. If I go another way I'd have to order more bullets but I can't imagine either one of those not doing the job on anything.

blackbear · « **Reply #25 on:** June 20, 2008, 11:58:27 AM »

I used to avoid heavy recoil weapons but now I get a real kick (sorry I could not resist that one) out of shooting them. I have my own range and practice shooting cold barrel or 2 shot groups much of the time. It still takes a conscious effort on my part to avoid flinching because of bad experiences as a kid. My .450 Marlin has the heaviest recoil but it is a hard push rather than a sharp hit.

teddy12b · « **Reply #26 on:** June 20, 2008, 05:40:23 PM »

What I like about the 45/70 is the wide range of loading available for it. I can load it so it hardly kicks, or load it to where it knocks me down.

teddy12b · « **Reply #27 on:** July 01, 2008, 07:03:34 AM »

*Update*

Couldn't find an accurate enough load for the 45/70 in the short amount of time and with a kid on the way the 45/70 is out the door. I've got some ammo to experiment with in my 30-30 and that's what I'll be taking this year. I need to take that gun out and redeem myself for waht happened last year. I don't have any doubts about the Puma 44 mag, but I need to redeem myself with my 30-30.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 01, 2008, 11:38:39 AM »

Proper bullet, shot placement and the 30-30 will do the job.

teddy12b · « **Reply #29 on:** July 01, 2008, 05:27:06 PM »

I bought some factory nosler partion, and barnes triple shocks in 30-30 today. As a reloader it's kind of hard to get myself to buy factory ammo, but I'm running out of time. I'm just going to see what shoots the best in my gun and use a cronograph to see the velocity. Then I'll try to make my own ammo. I really want to hunt with ammo that I made myself. Kinda the same satisfaction as catching a trout on a fly that you tied yourself.