Latch Question

[jlgwiz]

 Please forgive if I name a part wrong.  I have a 30-30 handi (synthetic) and a question about the shelf in the action.  Should it be centered?  Mine is snug against the side of the action on the right with a gap on the left side. It locks up fine and no pop open problems or anything like that but I can not get any decent groups after trying different ammo ( both in bullet weight and manufacturer), shooting with the forend off, checking scope, mount, rings did not seem to make a difference and I have put about 100 rounds through it.  Just trying to eliminate possible problems.

         Thanks
          jlgwiz

[FW Conch]

What  do  you  consider "decent"  groups  to  be ?     Jim

[jlgwiz]

Not looking for sub MOA or even MOA,  between 1.5 to 2 would be decent enough for me for this gun. Not the 3 to 4 that I am getting now.  Also if the latch is a problem then other barrels added to this frame could be problematic also. 

[quickdtoo]

Let's get on the same page here. The "shelf" is on the barrel, not the action, the "latch" or "catch" as H&R calls it, is part of the action and locks against the shelf when the action is closed. What you need to do is check latch engagement on the shelf as described in the barrel fitting instuctions in the FAQs, if it's not right, then you may need to send it in for repair/replacement of the defective part/fit. I'd start with making sure the latch and shelf are clean and dry every time you shoot it, there should be no oil on either for proper lock up and good accuracy. See the Handi Basics 101 sticky. 

Tim

[jlgwiz]

Ok,  the latch is what I was talking about earlier.  It is positioned to the right,  that is there is a noticeble gap on the left hand side when looked on from above with the barrel removed, where as the right side is almost touching the side of the action.  I did not know if that was normal. Also the latch and shelf were clean and dry.  Now that you mention it, I looked at the shelf.  It shows wear only across the very tip except on the left side, and there the wear extends up on the shelf for about 1/8 inch over the last 1/8 to 3/16 of the shelf.

           jlgwiz

[trotterlg]

Does your latch look different from this one?  Larry

[quickdtoo]

Looking at the frame pics in the FAQs, the latches aren't centered on all those frames, some are, one is way to the left side.
I  just checked a couple of mine, you can move the latch from side to side and center it, whether it will stay there, I dunno. The amount of space H&R allows on each side of the latch is one of the weaknesses of the frame, if H&R would provide a little more material and support closer to the latch, it should improve engagement strength and eliminate some of the flex in the action, specifically less deflection of the latch pin.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,80979.msg498556.html#msg498556

[jlgwiz]

First,  Thank You all for the replies. 
Larry,  the latch on my handi  is further off center,  the gap on the right side look more like a pencil line than a gap, however it does not seem to be scrapping the side of the action.
Tim,  it seems that the gap on my left side is bigger that the one on your right side.
  Maybe nothing too it,  I just do not know.  But now that I know the difference between a latch and a shelf and have seen the uneven wear on the shelf maybe I should look at that closer.  Just got the rifle in Dec. so maybe I should just take the scope off and send it in and have NEF look at it as I do not feel comfortable about working on the shelf problem myself.

      Thanks Again
          jlgwiz

[quickdtoo]

If you can't get the accuracy to 2" or less, give em a call and make arrangements to have it fixed, get them to cover shipping, might as well ask for a trigger job while it's there if it needs it too!! You can use a thin screwdriver blade to move the latch to the center, just press the barrel release button all the way down, then you can force the screwdriver between the latch and inside of the frame and pry it over to the center, might help, never tried it in different positions, you can be the guinea pig!!

Tim

[jlgwiz]

   Thanks for the info Tim.  I wil give it a try. If iis does not work out, I will just contact NEF, and send it back. OH Yea and get a 45-70 barrel while it is there. 

[quickdtoo]

At least one acc barrel, anyway!!

Tim

[jlgwiz]

  Maybe I am just paranoid but the barrel is not centered in the action when it is closed.  The gap between the side of the action and the barrel is much bigger on the right than the left. Also bought a set of feeler gauges and when the action is closed, I can get a .0015 guage part of the way inbetween breech and barrel at the top and part of the way down the right side but not the left.  This has made up my mind for me,  send it in.
  You know maybe all this was just confirmation to myself about sending it in.  Hope that I have not wasted your time, as it has been a learning experience for me.  I know little about firearms so please excuse if some of my question seem well "dumb". 

    Thanks Again
        jlgwiz

[Steve P]

Wiz,

Sounds like you are on the right track with the frame and barrel alignment.  But is that the cause of 3-4 inch groups? 

I don't have a handi in 30-30, but I do have several lever actions, a contender, and a bolt action savage.  They all like different ammo.  My Savage 340 is most particular.  Remington 170 grain hollow points will cluster all shots in under an inch at 100 yds.  Remington 150CL will print about 1.5" groups of 3 and will always throw out a flier to make a 5 shot group about 2".  Winchester ammo shoots about 4" groups period. 

Winchester ammo in my model 64 will shoot dime size groups at 50 yards on IHMSA chicken swinger.  Shots cluster nicely about size of a golf ball or a little bigger at 100 yards on Pig swinger.  This is with rear peep target sight and globe front sight.

When you get the barrel back, try some different brands of ammo, but more importantly, try the different bullet weights also.

Good luck and you will get your 1-2" groups.

Steve

[quickdtoo]

 Also bought a set of feeler gauges and when the action is closed, I can get a .0015 guage part of the way inbetween breech and barrel at the top and part of the way down the right side but not the left. 

If you can insert the blade, it's got more clearance than that, it should be snug to remove when the barrel is closed on the blade as stated in the barrel fitting info. It's definitely too lose for good accuracy if you can insert the blade with the action closed. I check barrels with a .001" blade, most will lock up tight enough that it can't be removed!

Give em a call and make arrangements to have it fixed, get em to pay for or reimburse you for shipping, and don't forget that trigger job if it needs it, and maybe the 2 or 4 acc barrels you want!!

Tim