long range barrel recomendations?

[towpro]

My Buffalo Classic has to go back to get to fix issue where it pops open every time I fire it.  I have tried everything in the FAQ but it still does it.  This is shooting lead bullets with lighter charges.  While its back in H&R, I might as well order a barrel

I had a 17HMR and really liked shooting flies off the paper all day at 100 yards, but if the breeze was blowing it was worthless over 100 yards.  Plus it cost as much to shoot as stuff I can reload for (I traded it to buy my BC).

I am looking for something I can shoot at paper, maybe a ground hog or 2 at ranges out to 500 meters.  I was thinking .223, but the experts tell me I want 1 in 9 twist for long range. I think from what I am reading is H&R is like 1 in 12 which don't work well over 200 yards?

What other accessory barrel do they make that you would recommend? 

[revbc]

I think the 223s are all 1 in 9 twist at this time.  Quick would know for sure

Bobby

[coyotehunter223]

towpro, for the 500 meter shots I recommend buying a four wheeler. Then drive 200 meters closer to the groundhog then shoot it
The .223 is a fantastic all-around cartridge, but not really a 500 meter round for groundhog sized varmints no matter what the twist. If it were me, I'd consider the .243

[swiss7.5]

If you looking at .223 and want longer range i would go with the 22-250 or 204

[DalesCarpentry]

If you looking at .223 and want longer range i would go with the 22-250 or 204

I have shot a lot of Groundhogs with the 204. I have to say out past 250 yards the energy really drops off. I would keep shots on Groundhogs under 300 yards for sure with the 204. I have a 243 now and have killed some Groundhogs out to 500 yards with great results. Any way you look at it if you plan to shoot out to 500 yards or more you better have a rifle that can shoot 1/2" or less at 100 yards or you will never hit your target. Just my thought on this. Dale

[Badnews Bob]

25-06 or a 280 both those will reach out there.

[quickdtoo]

Current production H&R 223s are all 1:9" except possibly the Superlights. I would probably opt for the 243 or 25-06 for the 500yd stuff, the 204 would be my next choice over the 22-250.  One of each would be nice!!

Tim

[blackpowderbill]

For that long range stuff i would get on the PRC and call in some 81mm mortar fire. Just kidding, well sorta kidding. If I could do that I would. For Ghog size targets at 500 yards you are asking alot. I have seen Pdogs shot that far away with a 22-250 but alot of powder was burned "bracket and halving those buggers" before one would fall. I am thinking something in 270 cal with a 150gr bullet to buck the wind or .30 cal with a 165gr bullets.

[LONGTOM]

I kind of like the idea of a BC 45-70 and sort of lob them in there.
 
As JOHN WAYNE said "WINDAGE AND ELEVATION".

My personal choice would be a 240 WEATERBY, but I assume you want something in an H&R so in that case I would proubly go with the 25-06.


LONGTOM

[towpro]

For that long range stuff i would get on the PRC and call in some 81mm mortar fire. Just kidding, well sorta kidding.

I currently shoot the 45-70 with 405gn lead out to 500M.  That's sort of like mortar fire

Thanks for the info on the on the 9:1 Tim.  First I got to call H&R on Monday and see if they are still accepting repairs, or does it have to go to the Local Remington Guy.

[handirandy]

If you want to maintain the "look" of the BC the 26" 25-06 will fit the bill.  Have shot the slender -o6 in an ultra and really liked the way it performed.

[towpro]

The more I think about this, I really don't need to shoot past 200 meters for paper or hogs. 
I really did like the way the 17HMR worked out to 100, that performance out to 200 would be nice.
I have been thinking of playing with "the cast bullet" guys at the range (all I shoot is cast anyway, so why not).  Then I will only be poking holes in paper at 100 and 200 yards.
so instead of going with those "large cases that can suck lots of powder", I think I have settled on the 22 Hornet.  Well least that is my thoughts this afternoon.  I have until Wed to decide (that is when I drop the gun off at the post office).

[NFG]

For long range you need the highest velocity obtainable with the highest bullet BC to hold the velocity and minimize the drop...which usually means a long barrel...in the NEF you have a choice of 25-06 or 280 Rem...both have high BC bullets and can obtain a fairly high velocity...or you could go with a 24" 243 and have it rechambered to 6mm-284 and gain several hundred f/s.

Realistically speaking and all picky arguments aside...that means a bolt gun...but if your NEF has the <1/2" accuracy needed to be more than a "hit or miss" proposition, then get to work on loads and have fun.  I've had several 25-06's that worked great out to maybe 500M but unless you have a lazer measuring device...I've used several hand held brands and even two theodolites a few times...you are whizzing in the wind "guessing" the range out past 200 yds...and I've used several 7mm's including 7mmRM with 175 gr BT out to 750 yds or maybe a little farther, a 260 RM and 6.5x55, and several 30 cals...hunting and target rifles with fairly satisfying success.  Also included in this list are most of the 22 and 6mm  CF cartridges, and several wildcats...my fav's are 220 Swift, 22-250 AI, 22-243,  and 6mm-284.

Long range is specialized work to make it interesting and increase hits...lots of doodads and thingamajiggs needed to increase the likely hood of hits...but if you really want to get a feel and have lots of inexpensive fun...just use a 22LR and keep all shots 150 yds or beyond...on Beldings or Richardson's...with the rifle sighted in at 50 yds...that way you have to work out the drop and windage similar to long range heavier caliber shooting...with a lot less expence.  It may not be all that macho when it comes to whiskey talk, but I guarantee it will make a better shooter out of you.  When you can make 75% hits with a rifle, then get your pistol out and work on your breathing and trigger action...

Have fun

'Njoy

[Moss88hunter]

I would recommend the .308 bull barrel. I have mine sighted in at 200 yds but it will do whatever you want. It might be a little overkill for groundhogs but I doubt you are shooting them for the meat.

Evan

[mitchell]

I would recommend the .308 bull barrel. I have mine sighted in at 200 yds but it will do whatever you want. It might be a little overkill for groundhogs but I doubt you are shooting them for the meat.

Evan

thats the only post that makes any since in this entire thread .


make up your mind man , first you say you want to shoot long range then you say you want a 22 hornet??? and what retarded shooting god told you that a 1-12 twist 223 can't shoot past 200 yards???  and why are you afraid of burning powder and shooting jacketed bullets???

 if you want to get in to the long range game , as your first post suggest then you need to start doing a lot of reading and if i were you i would buy a bull barrel 308  because it will have plenty of ass to buck the wind out to 500 and beyond and your not going to burn the barrel out trying to learn how to shoot and fine tune you rifle. the 240 weatherby , the 243 , the 22-250, they all burn barrels out to fast for a beginner to learn on, and the 270 win , hell no you'll find match ammo and even if you hand load match bullet are few and far between

 you will also have to have a range finder , its really then only "doodad and thingamajigg "needed for shooting at mid to close range .

 oh ya and this rummer about high velocity being needed for long range shooting is bull crap , try to keep it above 2500 and you'll be set. get your gun shooting 1/2 to 1/4 minute groups (5 shot) and you can just adjust for drop. a slow bullet going where it told is a lot better then a fast bullet hitting where ever it wants.

 stay away from wildcats . you'll be spending too much money that you could be putting into you glass.

think of it this way :

your barrel is your tires, they brake in and ware out quickly

your round is your engine , it has to be running good and well tuned if it can be faster and still run good , all is well

your receiver is your transmissions , if its not running smooth or the crap don't fit right your not going anywhere.

your scope is your windshield , if its not clear and stays clear your not going to make it 15 feet. this is not a place to cut corners

your trigger/shooter is the driver, if the nut job behind the wheel can't drive it don't matter if he's driving a Ferrari he's not going to win any races , buy a old car and take it to the parking lot and start at begging  (buy a ruger 10/22)

and remember stalking crap is a thing of the past if you can see it you can hit it no need to brake sweat walking closer.

[petemi]

I'd vote for the .308 also, 168 gr.  It may be overkill, but it will hit and kill.  It's not rocket science to see where it's going and a BDC scope helps.

[jmayton]

I have a friend that I shoot with that has a Rem VLS in .308.  Sure it's a bolt, but he can ring a 10in plate at 1000yds with it.  My .223 handi can do that at 500.  But that's about it.  I can shoot with him only out to 500, past that my little 55grainers start going their own way (I have an older 1:12 barrel...but it will still shoot 2moa at 500yds).  .308 would be my top choice for a easy shooting, cheap ammo, long-range gun....with the .243 a close second.

[Mac11700]

The more I think about this, I really don't need to shoot past 200 meters for paper or hogs. 
I really did like the way the 17HMR worked out to 100, that performance out to 200 would be nice.
I have been thinking of playing with "the cast bullet" guys at the range (all I shoot is cast anyway, so why not).  Then I will only be poking holes in paper at 100 and 200 yards.
so instead of going with those "large cases that can suck lots of powder", I think I have settled on the 22 Hornet.  Well least that is my thoughts this afternoon.  I have until Wed to decide (that is when I drop the gun off at the post office).

A 223 would be my first choice,cheap to shoot,easy on the shoulder,tons of different ammo & components usually very accurate. A 24" bull barrel or fluted would get the nod from me.Now,if I wanted something a little different,I would opt for a 30-30 and reload for it.Still easy on the shoulder and wallet,usually very accurate,and with the 30 cal bullet selection you should find something to suit you needs.

Mac

[Sourdough]

I shoot longer ranges frequently.  From 400 to 800 yards.  I use two rifles.  My favorite is a NEF Handi in 30-06.  While I can punch paper out to 700 yards with it there is not enough energy left to make a clean kill beyond 500 yards.  I shot two wolves at 650 and 700 yards with it and had to chase them down to finish them off, I don't like having to do that so I limit my shots with the 06 to 500 yards or less for wolf size game.  (Our wolves are the size of whitetails).  Someday I would like to use it for groundhogs.  I think a 125 gr Speer TNT would work good for that.

Since this is the NEF forum I won't cover the other gun I use for 800 yard shots here.

[RugerNo3]

The cast bullet crowd loves the 30-30 or 30-40 Krag. There is tons of loads and bullets to get good groups and that log neck protects the bullet lube. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

[towpro]

The cast bullet crowd loves the 30-30 or 30-40 Krag. There is tons of loads and bullets to get good groups and that log neck protects the bullet lube. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

I already reload and cast my own.  I have not shot a jacked bullet in around 5 years (accept 17hmr).

roger on the 30's.  Now if I could get a 32 Winchester Special I would jump on that for the lead shooting.

I still have a couple weeks to deside.  I need to return ship to my Parents so they can sign for it, but they are going out in the motorhome for 2 weeks.  So I have to wait about 2 weeks before I can send it.

223 or 22 hornet is winning.  I guess I will stick to the 45-70 with tang sights for the 500 meter range.  the 223 and hornet should cost around the same to reload, and I can cast for either if I want to try that.  Just need to think out the twist between the two and pick one.

[billy_56081]

A 26" 280 Rem barrel would be hard to beat in a long range rifle. There are alot of very very high BC bullets available in .284. But you are talking about shooting only to 500 yards so I'd go with a 243 ultra barrel as the Higher velocity will check the higher BC bullets in drop but it will still not help in the wind. On a second thought go with the 280. I'm thinking on sending my reciever in for a 26" 280 barrel, then having it reamed to 280 Gibbs for the utmost in a long range handi.

[nomosendero]

The more I think about this, I really don't need to shoot past 200 meters for paper or hogs. 
I really did like the way the 17HMR worked out to 100, that performance out to 200 would be nice.
I have been thinking of playing with "the cast bullet" guys at the range (all I shoot is cast anyway, so why not).  Then I will only be poking holes in paper at 100 and 200 yards.
so instead of going with those "large cases that can suck lots of powder", I think I have settled on the 22 Hornet.  Well least that is my thoughts this afternoon.  I have until Wed to decide (that is when I drop the gun off at the post office).

I have been reading this stuff, thinking I should offer some advise taylored to your application. But man, you are all over the board. At first you want to shoot out to 500 meters. Just one day later you say the max be 200 yards, & to me 500 yards is 2.5 times 200, a slightly different deal.
Then it is cast bullets & down to 22Hornet & at 200 yards the Hornet with a cast pill would kill a "hog" (I hope you are Northern & mean Groundhog as first stated), but it would not be the epitomy of hydro. shock & awe. It is your money & we will all hope what you decde to buy works, but you may want to think on this a LOT more than a couple of weeks.

[mitchell]

here here, you need to think on this i while longer . if your just wanting to take 200 yard shots on groundhogs and some day start shooting longer ranges then get a 223 , you'll still be able to make it out to 500 it will be a lot harder on you and learning long range shooting with a wimpy cal is easier said then done but it still can do it .


to sum it up man , start rethinking what it is you want to do. if you want to get into the long range game then get in its not that hard , just don't halfass it or you'll just be waisting money.

[towpro]

here here, you need to think on this i while longer . if your just wanting to take 200 yard shots on groundhogs and some day start shooting longer ranges then get a 223 , you'll still be able to make it out to 500 it will be a lot harder on you and learning long range shooting with a wimpy cal is easier said then done but it still can do it .

thanks for all the advice.  Here is my thoughts:
After reading all the posts, I realize there is not a "one size fits all" caliber choice here.

in Realty, I only hunt ground hogs once per year or so, and the fields here in SE PA, your lucky to find a shot much over 100 yards.

I already use my 45-70 (with tang sights) to shoot the permanent silhouettes that are hanging at the club out to 500 meters.

I don't want to use the 45-70 for cast bullet matches (100 and 200M) because shooting 80-100 45-70's from a bench can wear me out. Even the lighter cast loads I shoot cause me shoulder pain if I shoot to many (old injury). Plus I can't see the red ring targets they use for cast matches through the tang sights at 200M and I don't want to put a scope on the 45-70 barrel.

I think I should go with the .223.  I can load jacketed for ground hogs, and I should be able to "ring the steel" silhouette at 500m.  Its cheep to reload, a good choice of bullets, recoil is less then some of the other choices, and I can cast my own gas checked bullets for the Cast matches.  As long as the .223 22" bull barrel is 1 in 9 twist.  I will call H&R to verify this. 

Later, if I decide to move onto long range silhouette matches (where you have to knock them over, not just "ring them"), I will go a different direction.  If that direction is with an H&R, I think a different stock would be better suited then the Buffalo Classic for long range matches.  Then I would look at something bigger like a .308 in a complete gun.

I need to search the width of the .223 bull barrel. Will the forarm from the 45-70 BC fit the .223 bull barrel?

Sound good?

[quickdtoo]

I need to search the width of the .223 bull barrel. Will the forarm from the 45-70 BC fit the .223 bull barrel?

Yes, it will fit fine, although you'll have to sand it out a bit to get a good float on the heavier barrel contours. H&R doesn't make bull barrel forends, they all have the same barrel channel  except the 10ga/12gUSH forends, bull barrels are only about .030" larger at the forend stud than standard contour barrels, there's just less taper on bull barrels.

Tim

[mitchell]

that sounds like a good plan . you'll be surprised of what you can do with just a 223 . hearing a ping on steal is a lot of fun and the 223 will be up to the task. i would recommend getting either a 24" bull or the 24" fluted they both seam to have good luck and if you buy new you stand good chances of getting a 1-9 twist and you can shoot some bigger higher BC bullets and help you fight the wind a lot more with that little round.


if you need help let me know I've done far more long range shooting with a 223/556 then any man ever should (they don't let me take the M14 out much)

[nomosendero]

I agree that this is a good plan & I am glad to see that you are gaining a sense of direction on this matter. A 223 is a logical starting place & when you have acquired the skill to stretch way out there you will also understand what additional barrels or complete rifles that suit your needs. Experience has a way of doing that.

[Tencubed]

Just joined this forum and find it an interesting spot.

Couple of things I would mention about the cast bullet shooting at longer ranges.  While I do have good luck with the 30-30, 32WCF and 30-40 the 32-40 and 38-55 have been better long range performers over the years.  The 32-40 particularly has a proven track record of being an accurate cartridge.  May just be what works for me but that's what I've seen.

Never have had really good luck with 22 caliber cast bullets, maybe just the way I make them up.  As far as the 22 Hornet goes I have found it to be a fussy round to reload and the brass is very thin and fragile.

The 223 should be a great choice for your use as long as your not into a lot of wind.  At the longer ranges a bit heavier bullet will be needed and the quicker twist will stabilize them better.  JMO and YMMV

Mike