Author Topic: Should I buy a 338 Win Mag? (Read 1941 times)

Lagavulin · « **on:** July 16, 2003, 01:10:00 PM »

Ok guys, I need your experience here. I currently shoot a 7 mag for deer and moose ( 1000 lbs +), more than adequate for both. However, as with what seems to be in all Northern B.C., Grizzlies are swarming our hunting area. The opinions are split as to whether a 7 mag will stop a charge. I have posts already in this forum about the effectiveness of a 338/06 or 35 whele in this senario but cannot find a new rifle in these calibres (weatherby is too expensive). The 7 mag is comfortabe to shoot with 175 grain, I was also comfortable shooting my Marlin 1895 45/70 with handloaded 405 grain (sold it, not suitable for our terrain....will regret it :? ).
So.....for all of you with the massive battery of firearms ( I swear Lawdog and Zachery are competing) who shoot all these calibres, should I bother going up to the 338 win mag? This is not to hunt the bears, just insurance for myself while after moose. Since we dont get to test drive rifles here in Canada, I'm not sure if the 338 is too much gun for my shoulder and I should just be content with the 7 mag. Massive difference in recoil?

Thanks

DennisB · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2003, 01:30:53 PM »

The .338's recoil ain't that bad, 'specially if you're halfway used to the 7mm. Loaded up with 250 grain Partitions it IS bad on the receiving end. Don't know if Barnes Original 300 grain slugs are still made, but my M77 shot those and the 250 Partitions to the same POI.

Get the .338 and don't look back (unless ya hear a twig snap).

Lagavulin · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2003, 01:43:53 PM »

Thats the point!

savageT · « **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2003, 01:50:31 PM »

Quote from: Lagavulin

Thats the point!

You could always carry a 12 gauge smoothbore loaded with "dangerous game" slugs as the Alaskan Guides seem to like, and use the 7mm mag for everything else.

Jim

Lagavulin · « **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2003, 02:11:53 PM »

SavageT

Thats a good idea, and I do that in camp, but carrying two guns with the possibility of packing meat out seems kind of burdensome. I'm hoping to solve the dilemma with the rifle in hand since those bears are so stinkin fast when their on fire. i personally havnt been charged yet, but my hunting buddy has been twice. He and his friend shot three all at once one time, and his father shot from 200 yards on a cliff above him in the path of three more who were chasing him. The shots in the creek spooked them that time. They all shoot 300 mags ( the 180's not that much better than the big 7's 175's). It took two rifles with empty magazine to stop one other charge with the bear dying at their feet.

Zachary · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2003, 03:49:52 PM »

Lagavulin,

I have a Winchester Classic Stainless in .338 Win. Mag. However, I can't tell you about the recoil because I sent the rifle to the Answer Products in Michigan and had their Answer Muzzle Brake and recoil pad installed. As such, with PMC 225 grain X-Bullets, the rifle feels like it kicks like a .270.

As for your question about stopping a charging grizzly, there is no doubt that a .338 diameter bullet is a much better choice than a .284 diameter bullet. Yes, you can use the .338 on Moose, etc., so the gun will be useful. However, only you can determine if buying a new gun outweighs your concerns of grizzlys.

Another option is to keep your 7mag and get a .454 Casull handgun loaded with 300 grain bullets. I own 3 Taurus Raging Bulls - 2 in 454 and 1 in 480. I can tell you that the 454 is indeed much more powerful and a better choice for big bear protection.

Zachary

jdt48653 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2003, 03:52:51 PM »

im thinking 300 weatherby will cover everything!(howa)

Lagavulin · « **Reply #7 on:** July 16, 2003, 03:57:50 PM »

Zachary,

I wish we could do that here in Canada. Any hand gun is restricted which means that with a permit, we can only transport it to and from our home to the shooting range. Any other carrying results in a fine/jail time :evil:
Granted, I could try and wing it but the whole legality issue doesnt sit well with me.
I'm really on this forum tonight because tomorrow I'm buying something. I need a secong hunting rifle, will it be bigger, or lighter? Thats the question.

longwinters · « **Reply #8 on:** July 16, 2003, 04:35:44 PM »

If it gives you confidence . . . buy it.

eroyd · « **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2003, 05:04:36 PM »

338's getting to be a very popular cartridge here in BC. I personally pack a Rem.700 in 300 Wby when up North. My friends pack 270s, 7mm Rem., 7mm STW's and a 338. There's been a few close ones with Grizzlies in the inlets and up in the Cassiar's. The only bear that needed to be stopped was a unusually aggressive black bear that was shot at 10 ft with a 270. That bear dropped like a bag of hammers. At point blank, even the little 270 is potent. You shoot them in self defense any further away than that and you'll have some answering to do.

I'm happy with the 300 wby,(not much different than the 300win), the 338 would be my second choice but I would check out some of the new unbelted mags. If the rifle fits right, recoil should be tolerable.

Ron T. · « **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2003, 07:50:26 PM »

IÂ’ve hunted everything from mule deer to moose with a pre-Â‘64 .338 Win. Magnum Â“AlaskanÂ” Model 70 Winchester I bought new in either 1959 or 1960 for $149.

I collected a very large moose with close to a 5-foot rack on a fly-in hunting trip Â‘way back into the Canadian Â“bushÂ” that dropped where he stood using a single 210 grain Nosler Partition Bullet in front of a maximum load of IMR4350 & CCI magnum primers in Winchester cases.

My .338 handloads Â“KICKEDÂ” pretty hard off the bench rest, but in hunting situations shooting at game, it may as well be a .30/06. or a .270 Win. because you donÂ’t even notice the recoilÂ… especially if youÂ’re looking down the barrel at a big bear quickly closing the distance between you and him in super fast fashion.

IÂ’ve Â“retiredÂ” the big Winchester with itÂ’s 36-38 ft/lbs of Â“kickÂ” a few years ago and I now use a Model 99 Savage in .300 Savage caliber with 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullets and just 14 ft/lbs of Â“kickÂ” for the Pennsylvania whitetails I hunt. I have shot 60-70 rounds out of the Savage Â“99Â” off a bench-rest in a single shooting session and never got a sore shoulder.

However, if youÂ’re a normal human being, shooting a .338 Win. magnum off a bench rest will prove painful experience after 15 or 20 roundsÂ… especially if youÂ’re firing Â“hotÂ” handloads and heavy bullets. The .338 Win. magnum is not a rifle with which you would enjoy doing a lot of bench-rest shootingÂ… at least, I didnÂ’t.

Using a 250 grain Nosler Partition, the .338 Winchester magnum will stop any bear ever born with a decent hit. Big bears are tough, determined customers, but theyÂ’re not bullet-proof.

If an angry Â“grizzÂ” was charging me, IÂ’d break Â‘em downÂ… take out a front shoulder with my first shot and take out the other front shoulder with my next shotÂ… then finish him (if necessary) with a 3rd shot.

DonÂ’t shoot for his heart/lung area because he can cover short distances faster than a race horse with his heart totally destroyed and be on you. In a real emergency, you might try for a brain shot, but any solid hit in the head should stun a charging grizzÂ… and slow or stop him long enough for you to get another shot. Again, shoot to break a shoulder with a 2nd shotÂ… and then finish him.

IÂ’ve heard it said that a 250 grain Nosler Partition Bullet in a .338 Win. mag. will shoot through a big grizzly front-to-backÂ… and that may be true. But whether it does or not, IÂ’d SURE rather be facing a Â“poÂ’dÂ” grizzly with a .338 Win. Mag. in my hands than a 7mm Rem. Mag. or a .300 Win. Mag or even a .300 Weatherby Magnum.

Check out what most of the guides in Alaska carry now. I read theyÂ’ve traded their .375 H&H magnums for the .338 Winchester magnum. There HAS to be a Â“reasonÂ”!

Strength & HonorÂ…

Ron T.

Sixgun · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2003, 03:27:58 AM »

I got a Ruger MKII in 338 Win Mag a few years ago and at first I was a little afraid of the recoil, then I shot it. It gives more of a push than a kick and it really reaches out and touches things.

I use Speer 225gr boat tails over 73gr of IMR4350 and they go over my chrony right at 3000fps. On my computerized ballistics program this shoots approximately as flat as a 7mm mag with twice the energy at all ranges. I use this on mule deer and elk. Mule deer die right where they are. I haven't had one take another step. Elk have all died within just a few feet.

You may want a bigger bullet for big bears. In the Speer manuals, they recommend nothing under the 8mm mag for big mad bears. I have never been around a big Griz that had a grudge but I think if I was I would want the hardest hitting round I could get. Changing to a 338 is definately a consideration.

Sixgun

Zachary · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2003, 03:40:25 AM »

It seems like the general consensus is get the .338. :grin:

Zachary

Lagavulin · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2003, 06:03:51 AM »

Thanks guys :toast:

You pretty much convinced me to go that route. Its a feild gun, not a bench shooter so I'll keep it in its proper place!
The question now is, a 338 in a Tikka SS (which I have) or a Ruger M77 MK11 with the controlled round feed, their the same price but you get the rings with the Ruger.

Hmmmmmm....

savageT · « **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2003, 07:51:24 AM »

Quote from: Lagavulin

Thanks guys :toast:

You pretty much convinced me to go that route. Its a feild gun, not a bench shooter so I'll keep it in its proper place!
The question now is, a 338 in a Tikka SS (which I have) or a Ruger M77 MK11 with the controlled round feed, their the same price but you get the rings with the Ruger.

Hmmmmmm....

Whatever you decide, it better be the most dependable feeding gun you can afford.....like the words DANGEROUS GAME comes to mind. :eek:

Jim

Lawdog · « **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2003, 07:56:52 AM »

Lagavulin,

Go with the Ruger M77 in .338 Win. Mag. and you'll never regret it. I have two brothers-in-law that live in Alaska and one carries a .338 Win. Mag. and the other carries a .358 Norma Mag. when they are in Brownie country. I've taken three brown bears in my life time, two with a .300 Weatherby and one with a .340 Weatherby and IF I ever take another I plan on using a .375 Weatherby. The .338 Win. Mag. is most likely the most used caliber for bears in Alaska, seems like everyone has one. Lawdog

ringo · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2003, 04:03:41 AM »

There is not a lot of difference in recoil between the 7mm and 338 win mag. The key to your survival will be your selection of optics to defend yourself from a grizzly charge. Think in terms of a 3x9 or 2x7 in quality optics, a failed fogged scope = a mauled hunter! My 338 is a Browning, I use 210gr Noslers and I don't go moose hunting without it, go with the Ruger with CRF and rings, and enjoy your next moose steak.

new snake owner · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2003, 06:05:09 PM »

I may have come a little late to the party but, what type of "real" ranges are you hunting at? If 250 or under I would be hard pressed to not at least contemplate the "original" DGR cartridge 375 H&H. If you currently hunt w/ a 7 mag I would tend to think that you might be hunting at longer ranges, but if the case is like I stated this may be a viable option.

Lagavulin · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2003, 07:16:14 PM »

Thanks for all the replies! i'll let you know what I get when I have the time to order one.

Zachary · « **Reply #19 on:** July 21, 2003, 04:54:25 AM »

If it's not too late, there is a Tikka SS on gunbroker for $483. That is right at or a little below wholesale! :eek:

Zachary

Lagavulin · « **Reply #20 on:** July 21, 2003, 01:02:09 PM »

I could'nt help myself. Instead of the Ruger in 338, I found a used Winchester Mod 70 Super Grade with scope in 300 mag ( 99%- CRF, beautifull wood, smooth action) for less than purchasing the new Ruger with scope. I know I know...should have picked up the 338. I'll have to be content with 200 grain Barnes X or Swift A-frames, still ahead of the 7 mag anyway with a little more confidence now.

sport240 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2003, 04:26:03 PM »

Just my 2 cents.....

I really don't think there is something the .338 can do that the 7MM or .300 Win. can't do. Unless the Grizz is standing 20 feet away from you, there is no real advantage to a .338 and I'd even throw in a disadvantage as to recoil and possibly weight. If the Grizz is 20 feet away, your best load is a 1oz. Brenneke slug coming out of a 12ga. smoothbore...

Way to go on the .300 Win...it's a real slugger and will not be put to shame by anything out there.

Sport240

crow_feather · « **Reply #22 on:** July 25, 2003, 08:40:23 AM »

Ron T
Pull that 338 back out and load it up with 55 grains of 4064, a large rifle primer, and a 200 grain bullet of your choice. It shoots sub MOA at about 2550 fps. It is pretty much the same as a 358 and no deer will walk from a well placed shot. I hate to see a great rifle put to pasture before its time.
Best wishes,

C F

SHW · « **Reply #23 on:** July 26, 2003, 08:51:43 PM »

Lagavulin
I know that you didn't buy a 338, but everyone convinced me to buy one. I am trying to build up a collection to hunt anywhere. After comparing the 300 win. 300 & 338 ultras, & 340 Weatherby the 338 win seems like the best of all worlds. Availabilty of ammo, lake of recoil, and proven stopping power make it SEEM like the perfect middle bore in the category. just happens that today I found a new Beretta Mato in 338 Win. Think I will see if it is still available Monday.

22-250. 7MM Rem mag, 338 Win mag & 458 Win----------------------- That should cover it....