Author Topic: Advice (Read 4247 times)

30-06man · « **on:** April 14, 2008, 05:24:00 PM »

Well my son has turned 16 and he wants his first truck. He wants a 4x4 and wants a jeep. I am nervous on that deal because of the danger of rollover. He has a spending limit of $5000 that he has saved up and he is looking at some 95-98 Chevy Z71's also. I keep telling him he also needs better fuel mileage in a truck also. I want to know what yall suggest for him.

Thanks,
Rick

KN · « **Reply #1 on:** April 14, 2008, 06:14:23 PM »

If a Jeep is what he wants it will probably be pretty hard to talk him out of it. You are right though about fuel economy. Jeeps stink!! KN

ihookem · « **Reply #2 on:** April 15, 2008, 03:12:04 AM »

If you have a gas hog truck let him drive it a few tanks. Go on a fishing trip, let him drive like it is his, after a few tanks of him paying for gas he will find out how costly it really is and very likely will change his mind. My daughter wanted a WE game for a long time, now she got home last night after her fourth day on the job with a hundred bucks worth of tips so far. I told her to go out and buy a WE game, she looked at me like I was an idiot! Now it's me spending her money and it's a whole change in thought. Later, ihookem.

30-06man · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2008, 03:26:06 AM »

Good Idea. I drive a Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diseal and it gets good milage but at $4 a gallon it ain't no good. He already drives it and fills it up when I drive the company truck. How good is the 4cly in the jeep as far as fuel economy?

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2008, 12:42:01 PM »

You know everyone dogs jeeps on MPG but I gotta say mine does GREAT. My 91 5 speed 4.0L YJ with 265 tires and 4.10 gears averages between 18 and 19.5 in mixed driving.

But for $5000 or less you can forget finding a decent wrangler.

How bout a used Cherokee! They'll do everything a Wrangler will but unlike a wrangler they are practically giving them away used.

Quote

How good is the 4cly in the jeep as far as fuel economy?

Every 4cyl jeep I've had the misfortune of driving got WORSE MPG than the same Jeep with a 4.0L 6cyl engine. A jeep with a 2.5 is simply too underpowered to get decent mileage. It's hard for a 4cyl to be economical when you have to keep the throttle floored to get anywhere.

A 4.0L jeep with a stick and normal sized tires will get just as good or better MPG as any other 4x4

30-06man · « **Reply #5 on:** April 15, 2008, 01:32:06 PM »

Quote from: krochus on April 15, 2008, 12:42:01 PM

You know everyone dogs jeeps on MPG but I gotta say mine does GREAT. My 91 5 speed 4.0L YJ with 265 tires and 4.10 gears averages between 18 and 19.5 in mixed driving.

But for $5000 or less you can forget finding a decent wrangler.

How bout a used Cherokee! They'll do everything a Wrangler will but unlike a wrangler they are practically giving them away used.

Quote
How good is the 4cly in the jeep as far as fuel economy?

Every 4cyl jeep I've had the misfortune of driving got WORSE MPG than the same Jeep with a 4.0L 6cyl engine. A jeep with a 2.5 is simply too underpowered to get decent mileage. It's hard for a 4cyl to be economical when you have to keep the throttle floored to get anywhere.

A 4.0L jeep with a stick and normal sized tires will get just as good or better MPG as any other 4x4

The only 2 models he really likes are the Wrangler and the Cherokee Sport. I just worry about the short wheelbase on the Wrangler. I have seen many for under $5000 but most are lifted at least 3inches.

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** April 15, 2008, 05:27:30 PM »

Better check the cost of insurance on him for a Jeep. My oldest long long ago had the money to buy the Jeep he wanted but not the insurance on it. No one would loan the money without the insurance and it cost as much as the Jeep was gonna. He ended up buying a new Ranger pickup instead.

30-06man · « **Reply #7 on:** April 15, 2008, 05:34:38 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on April 15, 2008, 05:27:30 PM

Better check the cost of insurance on him for a Jeep. My oldest long long ago had the money to buy the Jeep he wanted but not the insurance on it. No one would loan the money without the insurance and it cost as much as the Jeep was gonna. He ended up buying a new Ranger pickup instead.

He's paying for everything so I won't take a hit of any kind money wise. Hopefully when I go to see how much it will cost him he will understand that he has to fork out the cash for it. He has been paying for his own guns now for about 3 years. He would pay me and I would go and buy it and it would be under my name but in the family safe. He has 6 guns now and I hope he has learned the value of money from buying them.

Moss88hunter · « **Reply #8 on:** April 15, 2008, 05:58:52 PM »

Don't let him get an open top jeep! My cousin was killed when his jeep rolled over. He was in his late twenties and was an experienced driver. The insurance is ridiculous too.

Evan

Old Syko · « **Reply #9 on:** April 16, 2008, 03:32:25 AM »

J - E - E - P stands for Just Empty Every Pocket for a multitude of reasons. We enjoy offroading as much as anyone around here and I'm willing to bet my last dollar that is exactly what this young man has in mind also. We won't have anything to do with a jeep unless it first gets a full cage, seats and harnesses installed. Not exactly a good first vehicle IMHO.

30-06man · « **Reply #10 on:** April 16, 2008, 04:39:05 AM »

He won't be going off roading in it other than when he is going hunting. If he does get one it probably will not the the Wrangler.

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2008, 05:36:02 AM »

If money is an issue you may want to think about 2 wheel drive. 4X4 takes more fuel, more parts to replace (u-joints) ... especially if he wants to mud it.

30-06man · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2008, 05:48:12 AM »

Quote from: Hairtrigger on April 16, 2008, 05:36:02 AM

If money is an issue you may want to think about 2 wheel drive. 4X4 takes more fuel, more parts to replace (u-joints) ... especially if he wants to mud it.

Like I said the only times it is going off the road is when he goes hunting and Ill probably be there and fishing. So I don't think that will be an issue. I am kinda encouraging him to go with the 4x4 because I sold my F150 a while back and bought a 2wd Dodge Ram 2500 and it gets stuck a bunch due to its own weight. What about the Chevy 1500 with Z71 what is yall's experience with it?

mjbgalt · « **Reply #13 on:** April 16, 2008, 06:32:28 AM »

i have a 1998 wrangler with manual transmission and 4 cylinder. it does just fine for me, and gets 20 mpg in my all-around driving. i don't have a problem with the power, but if i were used to a v8 or if i added bigger tires i would definitely not be happy with the acceleration.

overall i love my jeep, however, let's look at the insurance end of this again. i work for an insurance company. my jeep insurance on a 1998 is the same as for my 2007 saturn. BUT...the difference between "Expensive" insurance and "cheap" insurance to most people is only $20 or so per month. if he is a new driver or under 21, it's going to be expensive no matter what, so he shouldn't let $20 a month keep him away from whatever vehicle he really wants.

$20 a month = $240 a year...most people spend more than that on coffee or (for us here at GBO) ammo and fishing lures.

30-06 MAN- if you have any questions feel free to PM me and I will give you my phone number and I will help however I can.

-Matt

30-06man · « **Reply #14 on:** April 16, 2008, 03:59:42 PM »

The insurance will not cost all too much. I was surprised when it came up that a truck would cost more insurance wise than a 4x4 jeep. That being said it is not the final price and I will have to keep track of it. I am going to have him look around for a while so he can spend his money wisely so it will be a month or two before he actually gets something. If I can think of any questions I might PM you but as of now everything has been covered that I can think of.

30-30man · « **Reply #15 on:** April 16, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

You can't beat a Ford Ranger or a Cheverolet s-10 for utility and 4wd. They are very capable vehicles. I don't reccomend the 4.3 Cheverolet for gas mileage/I own one and it gets about the same thing as a 350 would. 15mpg tops. The 4.0 Ford is a good v-6 but the 3.0 is a bit underpowered. With the 4wd, the Ranger would do anything your son had business doing.

30-06man · « **Reply #16 on:** April 16, 2008, 04:15:14 PM »

Quote from: 30-30man on April 16, 2008, 04:08:07 PM

You can't beat a Ford Ranger or a Cheverolet s-10 for utility and 4wd. They are very capable vehicles. I don't reccomend the 4.3 Cheverolet for gas mileage/I own one and it gets about the same thing as a 350 would. 15mpg tops. The 4.0 Ford is a good v-6 but the 3.0 is a bit underpowered. With the 4wd, the Ranger would do anything your son had business doing.

I know the ford 4.0 V6 is a good engine. The Explorer I use as a company truck has one. The only probem I have see with the Ranger how few are for sale and then trying to find one that hasn't been wrecked and then in 4x4 is about impossible, but if I do he will give it a good look.

Sweetwater · « **Reply #17 on:** April 16, 2008, 06:31:04 PM »

Good advices all around here. Just a bit of my experience to add to the pot:

My '89 Cherokee 4.0 6cylinder/auto/4wd/stock tire size did 22mpg most of the time. I hauled a loaded utility trailer (4x8) from Wyoming to California a few years ago at 17mpg. Jeeps generally have a bit higher repair costs (I've had 6 in various models), but I love them and so it goes.
I also love Fords and have had at least one of all their 4x4 models at one time or other (even a Quadra-Van in '79). Only the Quadra-Van was lifted and it came that way factory new. Don't like lifts on anything. The Ford I have now is a '99 F150 Shortbed Stepside 5.4 V8/Auto/4wd/stock tire size and does 15-17mpg most of the time. My work gear adds about 500pounds and that will drag it down to 12mpg and the best I ever got was 18mpg. It is by far the most comfortable, worry-free truck I've ever owned....but my buddy's Chevy/Silverado/Duramax/Allison/4wd is actually more comfortable, though stiffer and has better seats.

Got my first CJ-5 in the mid-70's at 26 years old. Married, in college, and working. Scared my Dad to death! I was a hotrodder and he figured I'd have it upside down in a month. It was a ragtop with a rollbar. I did race it on the logging roads in Eastern Maine - and the 10years I had it, managed to keep it between the ditches, probably as much by the Grace of God as anything. I put Clifford Research split headers on the 232cid 6Cylinder American Motors/3-speed manual/10.50x15 Cooper Discoverer tires and wrung 25mpg out of her. Another CJ-5 with a hardtop and stock 258cid 6Cylinder American Motors/3-Speed manual/11.00x15 Desert Dog tires topped out at 18mpg. Go Figure.

I do agree that the insurance can be an issue, but probably doesn't have to be in the bigger picture.

And I do have to add that having had a vehicle picked out by my Dad, that wasn't what I wanted, paid for by myself, and couldn't wait to get rid of it! Had to have his approval as I was still living at home and he co-signed the note for me - house rules.

My kids don't accept my advise as well as I did from my Dad, but as I point out to them, it is their decision and they have to live with it - I will help in certain circumstances, but the everyday stuff is their problem. Most of them like it like that (we have 7) but the youngest really wants us to pay for what he wants. He is learning it doesn't work that way - but it's a slow lesson and not easliy swallowed for him. My oldest is purchasing a piece of property to raise their family on in Wyoming. She called a bit ago and asked me to come walk it with her so they would be sure and not put something where I wanted my retirement home built. I swallowed hard.

Guide him lovingly, and with him footing the bill, find what he wants - you'll both be happier down the road. JMO.

Regards,
Sweetwater

six_gunz · « **Reply #18 on:** April 16, 2008, 06:58:00 PM »

I drive a '04 Dodge Ram 1500... not so great on gas but better than a Jeep. Maybe go with a mid size truck (6 cylinder). Chevy has the flex fuel now that kicks down to 4 cylinders when you don't need the other 4. I drove a 8 cylinder Tahoe with the flex fuel, (and it was definitely better on gas than my dodge), while my truck was being repaired from some woman who plowed into my rear end at a stop light.
Dodge is built like a tank....all that it did to my truck was bend my bumper while she totaled her front end out.

Besides the roll over issue the problem with a Jeep is that it's a box and you'll be fighting the wind. If he gets a 4 cylinder Jeep to save on gas he'll be lucky to do 45 mph with his foot to the floor on the highway going against a good wind (not like you want him to be going fast but imagine the gas that gets wasted doing this). I know this from experience. Even in a 6 or 8 banger he'll be fighting the wind drag from the box style body. Stay away from Jeeps if possible. I know they look cool to a young man.

Moss88hunter · « **Reply #19 on:** April 16, 2008, 08:27:04 PM »

My dad has a 2000 or 2001 model Z71 and he loves it. It has the 4.8 V8. Even though it is a smaller motor it gets great gas mileage and has plenty of power. He pulls an 18 ft. trailer with farm equipment with no problem. My mom has a Tahoe with the same motor and neither vehicle has ever had any mechanical problems.

Evan

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #20 on:** April 17, 2008, 12:16:53 AM »

Why all the Jeep Hating?

Another reason to buy a Jeep wrangler is they have the best resale value of any vehicle out here. A Jeep is one of the few vehicles that if well taken care of you can actually get your money back.

Quote

Besides the roll over issue the problem with a Jeep is that it's a box and you'll be fighting the wind. If he gets a 4 cylinder Jeep to save on gas he'll be lucky to do 45 mph with his foot to the floor on the highway going against a good wind (not like you want him to be going fast but imagine the gas that gets wasted doing this). I know this from experience. Even in a 6 or 8 banger he'll be fighting the wind drag from the box style body. Stay away from Jeeps if possible. I know they look cool to a young man.

I'll bet you money that my 6cyl Jeep will go faster than your V6 Dodge and get better MPG doing it. Aerodynamics don't even come into play at speeds below 60mph. My 4.0 powered wrangler gets the same MPG and goes down the HWY just as well as my 3.8L 95 Pontiac Trans Sport, a vehicle that has the lowest coefficient of drag of ANY model GM has ever produced. Lower even than a Corvette

If you haven't driven a wrangler with a 4.0HO you should, you simply cannot compare one to a Jeep with a 2.4 or a 258

six_gunz · « **Reply #21 on:** April 17, 2008, 03:13:58 AM »

For one, I don't hate Jeeps!! I merely made an experienced statement about the jeeps I've owned and driven. For two I have a V8 NOT a V6....where did I say that I had a V-6 Dodge? Aerodynamics has everything to do with wind drag, ask any vehicle designer or engineer.
A jeep is not a good vehicle, regardless of the MPG it gets, for a young inexperienced driver and a 16yr old is just that!!!

30-06man · « **Reply #22 on:** April 17, 2008, 04:35:22 AM »

Quote from: six_gunz on April 16, 2008, 06:58:00 PM

I drive a '04 Dodge Ram 1500... not so great on gas but better than a Jeep. Maybe go with a mid size truck (6 cylinder). Chevy has the flex fuel now that kicks down to 4 cylinders when you don't need the other 4. I drove a 8 cylinder Tahoe with the flex fuel, (and it was definitely better on gas than my dodge), while my truck was being repaired from some woman who plowed into my rear end at a stop light.
Dodge is built like a tank....all that it did to my truck was bend my bumper while she totaled her front end out.

Besides the roll over issue the problem with a Jeep is that it's a box and you'll be fighting the wind. If he gets a 4 cylinder Jeep to save on gas he'll be lucky to do 45 mph with his foot to the floor on the highway going against a good wind (not like you want him to be going fast but imagine the gas that gets wasted doing this). I know this from experience. Even in a 6 or 8 banger he'll be fighting the wind drag from the box style body. Stay away from Jeeps if possible. I know they look cool to a young man.

I have seen that new engine and for the price of a Chevy with it you could buy the Chevy w/ the duramax diesel. I am trying to push him away from the Jeep in a way due to the short wheelbase and towards the 1500's and 150's and maybe a midsided Dodge Dakota if possible.

NYH1 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 17, 2008, 07:47:51 AM »

I had a 2002 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab SLT 4x4, 4.7L V8, auto tranny, 3:55 gears. That was a good little truck. I got 11 to 12 mpg in the city( which was just as much stop, if not more then it was go) and 19 mpg on the highway with the cruise set at 70 mph. I had the truck three years. The only thing I had to do was put front brakes and rotors on it at 18,000 miles. The main reason for this is the city driving that I do. Just like gas mileage, city driving kills brakes. It was great in the snow.

I didn't do any better gas mileage wise with my 2000 Ford Ranger in the city, it did a little better on the highway. It was the 4 door with the 4.0L V6, auto tranny, 4:10 gears. In my opinion the Dakota is a lot more truck then the Ranger. I had to have a new drive shaft put in it the first week I had it. Had to have the transfer case rebuilt because it leaked oil/fluid (I guess that's to be expected with Borg Warner T-cases, had the same problem with my '94 F-150, never had a problem with NPG t-cases). The paint started peeling off. It sucked in the snow with the Factory Firestone tires on it. I got a new set of Goodyear's because of the Firestone's blow out recall. It was better with the Goodyear's.

My wife had a 2000 Jeep Cherokee with the 4.0L straight six. That was a good vehicle too. City mpg was about like the Dakota and Ranger. I don't recall what it was on the highway. It rode like a skate board, but was pretty good in the snow. We didn't have any problems with it in the three years we had it.

I've never owned a 4x4 Chevy or GMC. I have a few friends that have/do. I used to work at a repair shop a few nights a week. It's been my experience that 1988 and up Chevy and GMC's were pretty good trucks. One of my really good friends has a 1993 Chevy Silverado 1500 4x4, 5.7L V8 (350), auto tranny, it's not a Z71. He has over 200,000 miles on it now. He had to replace the basic things, starter, alternator, water pump, tires, brakes, u joints that kind of stuff. He hasn't had any serious problems with it. He had it painted once. It was nowhere as bad as my 94 F-150 though, my truck rotted out real quick, needed new sheet metal (rocker panels and box sides had holes) within four years. He drove this truck from New York to Arizona and back the last few years as he's going to do again this year. I'm not sure what he gets for mileage. It's been a great truck for him, I know that much. My uncle has a 1990 or 91 that's a 2wd. He has a lot of miles on his too. His Silverado has been just as good.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #24 on:** April 17, 2008, 12:27:05 PM »

Quote

A jeep is not a good vehicle, regardless of the MPG it gets, for a young unexperienced driver and a 16yr old is just that!!!

NEWS FLASH! ANY vehicle isn't good for a 16yr old inexperienced driver. I can remember some of the stupid things I did in a car at that age, It amazes me sometimes me or none of my buddies were killed. A truck fares no better as all the fatalities that happened amongst my and neighboring high schools involved full sized trucks. The whole If I buy X vehicle my child will be safe line is just kidding yourself.

six_gunz · « **Reply #25 on:** April 17, 2008, 08:25:46 PM »

Quote from: krochus on April 17, 2008, 12:27:05 PM

NEWS FLASH! ANY vehicle isn't good for a 16yr old inexperienced driver. I can remember some of the stupid things I did in a car at that age, It amazes me sometimes me or none of my buddies were killed. A truck fares no better as all the fatalities that happened amongst my and neighboring high schools involved full sized trucks. The whole If I buy X vehicle my child will be safe line is just kidding yourself.

Yes Krochus, no one is arguing that point and thanks for informing us to what is already known, but if it were my kid I'd rather not have them begin driving a JEEP due to the roll over factor alone!!!!!! That's my opinion, sorry if you don't like it.
I rolled a car (Ford LTD) end over end 2 1/2 times coming to rest on the roof when I was 16. I was lucky and walked away pretty much unscathed except for a mere 5 stitches in my eyebrow so I know the the dangers involved with an inexperienced person driving any vehicle. Relax, don't turn this into an argument......he asked for advice not crying over he said she said about my beloved Jeep. I could care less if you came on here and gave negative feedback about a Dodge so it shouldn't bother you that my opinion is against a 16yr old kid buying a Jeep. BTW, I wasn't the only one on here that had that same opinion.

six_gunz · « **Reply #26 on:** April 17, 2008, 08:33:01 PM »

Quote from: 30-06man on April 17, 2008, 04:35:22 AM

I have seen that new engine and for the price of a Chevy with it you could buy the Chevy w/ the duramax diesel. I am trying to push him away from the Jeep in a way due to the short wheelbase and towards the 1500's and 150's and maybe a midsided Dodge Dakota if possible.

I hear ya there!! My wife wanted a Tahoe after we drove the loaner for a few weeks.....not for that price!!!

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #27 on:** April 18, 2008, 12:32:02 AM »

NO I'm not trying to start an argument, it's just that I find it kinda silly to be worried to death about rollover with a 170hp Jeep but a fullsized 4x4 truck with a 300HP V8 is OK

Trust me you can get a extended cab Z71 on 2 wheels just as fast or faster as a jeep.

To me it's akin to wanting to get into skydiving but deciding to jump at 8000 feed instead of 10,000 cause you're scared your chute might not open. You're either worried about rollover or your not, if you are you should be looking for a car. If you're looking at a fullsized 4x4 then odiously you're not too worried about it

ironglow · « **Reply #28 on:** April 18, 2008, 01:57:51 AM »

Here's a bit of experience from an old grandad, after dealing with sons and grandsons. Make sure they are using seat belts religiously; that negates much of the concern with rollover in a lighter vehicle.
Stay away from fast, high powered vehicles..a lad's tendency to race against other vehicles is in direct relation to his ability to beat the other vehicle. There are a lot more
4WD vehicles on the road than necessary (IMO). I live in an area where depth of snow is legendary, and I do OK with a 2WD, 4 cyl Ranger. Coupled with manual trans
and studded tires..I have driven this same layout Rangers for years, and can't recall last time I got "stuck". The roads are plowed..and if it is such that the Oshkoshes
and rotary blowers CAN"T keep them open..no one should be on the road.

As far as off road, for the difference in price (plus mileage/maintenance) a fellow can get some kind of off road rig to carry in the back for use in the woods ! ...And
that same rig can be used for other things...

I did in 2002, purchase a 4.0 L Ford Ranger 4WD for RV towing..good solid truck.but bI hated the auto tran and the mileage 18 mpg over the road without towing.
My usual 2WD rangers get 28 mpg like clockwork.
With that kind of savings, the lad can add his roll bars and many other "goodies" and still have money left over....

Again; my son/ grandsons are all decent, Christian boys..but put them in a powerful vehicle..and they will be using that power to beat their "competition".

...very few exceptions..

30-06man · « **Reply #29 on:** April 18, 2008, 02:29:48 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on April 18, 2008, 01:57:51 AM

Here's a bit of experience from an old grandad, after dealing with sons and grandsons. Make sure they are using seat belts religiously; that negates much of the concern with rollover in a lighter vehicle.
   Stay away from fast, high powered vehicles..a lad's tendency to race against other vehicles is in direct relation to his ability to beat the other vehicle. There are a lot more
4WD vehicles on the road than necessary (IMO). I live in an area where depth of snow is legendary, and I do OK with a 2WD, 4 cyl Ranger. Coupled with manual trans
and studded tires..I have driven this same layout Rangers for years, and can't recall last time I got "stuck". The roads are plowed..and if it is such that the Oshkoshes
   and rotary blowers CAN"T keep them open..no one should be on the road.

As far as off road, for the difference in price (plus mileage/maintenance) a fellow can get some kind of off road rig to carry in the back for use in the woods !   ...And
that same rig can be used for other things...

   I did in 2002, purchase a 4.0 L Ford Ranger 4WD for RV towing..good solid truck.but bI hated the auto tran and the mileage 18 mpg over the road without towing.
My usual 2WD rangers get 28 mpg like clockwork.
   With that kind of savings, the lad can add his roll bars and many other "goodies" and still have money left over....

   Again; my son/ grandsons are all decent, Christian boys..but put them in a powerful vehicle..and they will be using that power to beat their "competition".

   ...very few exceptions..

I haven't seen this in my son as far as the need to race and be fast. I don't have to worry about that factor for now from what I can tell.