Author Topic: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.  (Read 6848 times)

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Offline teddy12b

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Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« on: March 25, 2008, 04:20:56 PM »
It seems crazy but bear season is going to be here before I know it and I still haven't figured out what kind of a load I will hunt with in my 45/70.  I'm wanting to use a hard cast bullet because I've read a lot of good reviews.  I tried loading some 460gr, but I think that's overkill.  I'm leaning towards loading up some 400gr cast with gas checks and didn't know if anyone had any thoughts on those for bear. 

I'm still just breaking in this gun and I hope to get a load figured out fairly soon.  I've read that people just use the 405gr remington factory rounds and they do just fine.  I have no experience and that's why I'm asking the pros here.

I'm still debating on scoped rifle or open sighted.  I love the idea of open sights, but when it gets dark a scope is nice.

Anyone have any thoughts?  Last year I wounded an animal and we tracked it for long time and it was the most sickening feeling I've ever had in my stomach.  I just want to make sure I make an accurate shot and use more than enough gun.  I've been stairing at the pictures on the "where to aim" topic.

Offline Varmint Hunter

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2008, 03:49:49 AM »
Personally, I am not a big fan of hard cast bullets any more. I've used them for awhile and they do penetrate better than most expanding bullets but how much penetration do you need to kill black bears? Providing a ton of energy AFTER the bullet exits the animal really isn't doing much good. I've gone back to expanding bullets for just about everything. JJack has killed MANY black bears over the years and has come to some interesting conclusions as to which type of projectile is better for use against bears. His opinion can be found on this site, just do a search.

I am also working on developing a new 45-70 load for bears. However, I'll be using the Hornady 350gr FP or RN bullet. Both have a proven track record of providing excellent penetration AND expansion when used on black bears and larger game. Even the 300gr HP would be fine but the 350's provide better penetration for shots that may require it.

Just my 2 cents - good luck on your hunt.

Offline teddy12b

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2008, 07:44:51 AM »
I appreciate your information.  I've read a lot about guys & guides liking wide holes in and out of the animal.  I went to the 45/70 because of the width of the bullet and with the idea of hard cast in mind.  Black bears get taken with 30/30's enought that I should be alright with anything out of a 45/70 as long as I make the right shot.  Where I hunted last year a young guy got a bear with an open sighted 30/30.  Last year before my bear hunt I shot at a nice new 4x4 block of wood with 3 or 4 different kinds of factory ammo and everyone of them blew clean through it.  I'd like to replicate that test with my 45/70 just for giggles.

I'd love to load up some of the Hornady 350gr RN bullets but I haven't been able to find them.  I tried some 300gr jacketed hollow points from sierra and Hornady, but I'd like to go heavier than that because I'm probably not going to shoot over 150 yards with this gun.

Offline drdougrx

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2008, 04:21:13 PM »
Hi Teddy,

my everything 45/70 load is the 350gr speer sp over 46gr IMR4895 for a vel. of 1700fps in my #1.  Deadly on hogs, I suspect also on bears.
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Offline olbiffer

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2008, 06:54:42 AM »
Teddy, I hunted with the same outfitter as you last year and had success using my handi rifle in 45-70 with 325 leverevolution ammo. The ammo worked as advertised but I suspect the remington 405 grain would work just as well at the short distances of baited hutning. I agree with ya on the scope, mine is a low power ususally kept on 2x. I shot my bear through the front shoulder and he went less than 30 feet, but that was still out of sight as thick as it was there.Hope ya have better luck this year!Take care.  T

Offline teddy12b

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2008, 11:47:23 AM »
olbiffer,
   I didn't understand the first part.  Did you hunt with the Auld Reekie Lodge or Fox's Den last year?

Offline Varmint Hunter

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2008, 12:06:27 PM »
Just for the heck of it I ordered a box of Barnes 300gr TSX FP bullets. They're way over-priced but I'm curious as to how they'll perform. If they group reasonably well  I'll try them on black bear this coming June. Assuming they will penetrate like all the other Barnes bullets that I've shot, I doubt that I will be able to recover one. I'll keep ya posted.

Offline olbiffer

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2008, 09:27:59 AM »
Teddy, I was at Auld Reekie the first week last year on the lake stands.

Offline teddy12b

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2008, 09:32:28 AM »
Oh ok, now I understand.  They are some really great people at the Auld Reekie Lodge.  We would have gone there again this year, but they were already booked.  Did you take any pictures of your bear?  If you did I'd love to see them if you could e-mail them or post them.  Our bear stands were about a 20-30 drive from the lodge and another 10-20 minutes once we got off the road.  I got on the stand last after dropping off my two hunting partners and it was usually around an hour from the time I left camp to the time I got on my stand and it didn't help anything that my hunting partners were late getting out every day.

Offline efremtags

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2008, 02:07:47 AM »
I just booked my bear hunt. I loaded some REM405 over 52.5GR of H322.

The REM 405 factory load is a terrible game load. Its loaded to 1300fps or thereabouts, so penetration ig good, but there is no expansion. Its basicaly the duplicate  of the blackpowder load.

I suggest Winchester with 300gr nosler in standard factory ammo. I know a few guys who have used this with success on bear. For something hotter, but not necessary Buffalo bore and grizzly load god 350gr softpoints.

Offline olbiffer

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2008, 11:08:35 AM »
It took me about 45 minutes from the time we left the cabin, dropped off my partner, and got into my stand.The 4 lake stands are near the far end of the lake. I took pics but am not sure how to post them. Will talk to number one son when he comes out again. Where you going to be at this year?

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2008, 12:22:41 PM »
I would avoid using 400 grain speers. They seem pretty soft. My son shot a hog with one and it killed the hog allright but there were chunks of bullet all through the wound channel and lots of ruined meat. They were at lever gun velocity.
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Offline teddy12b

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2008, 02:24:35 PM »
This year we're going to try out Fox's Den.  Everything sounds good and you never really know until you get there anyway.  I'm looking forward to it.

I'll probably be using 405gr hard cast out of my 45/70 for this hunt.  I don't know how fast I'm going to push them yet though.

Offline petemi

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2008, 03:15:29 AM »
had success using my handi rifle in 45-70 with 325 leverevolution ammo. The ammo worked as advertised

My Handi .45-70 and I love the Hornady LEs.  I expect to draw a bear tag this Fall.  I think the 325 gr. will be more than adequate.
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Offline teddy12b

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2008, 11:02:48 AM »
Update:
    Finally got my 45/70 squared away last weekend.  The scope and iron sights are both properly adjusted and finally sighted in. 


    I'm starting to second guess my choice of using hard cast ammo.  I'm just about out of any hard cast ammo and as I about to order some more I got thinking to myself that I have some 405gr Remington JSP bullets setting at the house.  When you're talking about bullets over 400 grains of weight and inside 100 yards will it make much difference?

     I'm on the fence about this, but I don't think the bullet choice is gonna matter much, but maybe I'm wrong too.

Offline 1sourdough

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2008, 01:13:33 AM »
 Teddy, when is the bear hunt?
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Offline teddy12b

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2008, 02:44:17 AM »
This upcoming fall season in August.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2008, 03:13:27 AM »
My bullet for black bear is a hard cast 405 gr. bullet from Montana bullet works. I am pushing that bullet in the 1800 fps range. I have taken a two black bear with it and it was all one shot and the bears only went 8 yards and 20 yards.  All my other bear kills were with my 500 Mag and hard cast bullets.

The accuracy with this load out of my Marlin Guide gun is 1 inch groups at 100 yards. If you are interested in my load PM me.

Alex

I am going to Maine in August for another Black bear hunt, I am taking a few of my handguns, but I have not decited which one I will be using as of yet, it is a toss up of my BFR in 45-70, my Ruger 480 or my S&W 4 inch 500 Mag. I am leaning toward the 45-70 or the Ruger 480.
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Offline Cottonwood

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2008, 02:35:00 PM »
I will be loading and using a new bullet for me this year from Rim Rock Bullets, which is a 430-gr WFN GC, and keeping my loads in the mid 1500 range.  Most reloading sites do not offer reloading data for this bullet, if anyone is interested you will have to PM me as I got printed data from another company that make a very similar bullet.

http://www.rimrockbullets.net/catalog/


Offline Thebear_78

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2008, 04:20:12 PM »
Starline brass
H322 powder
405gr rem bulk bullet or Kodiak bonded

My go to load was  52.0gr of H322 at 2.55" COL.  Its a great load and chronoed at 1900+ fps out of my guide gun.

You really have to use starline brass though, it is thicker than winchester or remington brass and is better for hotter loads.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2008, 02:06:30 AM »
Starline brass
H322 powder
405gr rem bulk bullet or Kodiak bonded

My go to load was  52.0gr of H322 at 2.55" COL.  Its a great load and chronoed at 1900+ fps out of my guide gun.

You really have to use starline brass though, it is thicker than winchester or remington brass and is better for hotter loads.

You load is very close to my load, I use Montana Bullet Works 405 gr, hard cast gas check bullets, with 49 gr. of H322 at 2.250 I use Remington brass.
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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Offline teddy12b

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2008, 02:25:16 AM »
I just wish I knew what the shot was goign to be like.  If it's under 100 yards then the 45/70 would be perfect, but if it's over then I got to start worrying about hold over and things like that.  The guide keeps saying it's around 100 yards.  The other gun I may take is my 30-06 with 220gr handloads.  My 30-06 has a scope that I can illuminate the reticle on and I think that may be very handy. 

I'm starting to sound like my wife deciding what she's going to wear!  Anyone every take two guns for themselves into canada?  There's two guys going so it wouldn't be all bad to have a spare anyway.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2008, 04:01:31 AM »
Why limit yourself to 100 yards, 150 yards is very doable with the 45-70.
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Offline teddy12b

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2008, 07:52:31 AM »
Well, I thought I only had a few of the 460gr bullets to load up but I ended up with plenty.  Next time I'm at the range I'm going to do some accuracy and distance testing.  I'll see what kind of hold over I need for out to 200 yards.  I'm going to practice 90% of the time at 100 yards or less though, anything farther will be just so I know the drop.

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2008, 08:18:38 AM »
Order more bullets. ;D
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Offline teddy12b

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2008, 09:20:19 AM »
I'm hoping that my rifle and shoulder like this next batch of ammo.  If it's accurate I'll be hunting with it this year, and I assume it will be.  I have 100 pieces of new remington brass ready to go, but I do need to order more of the bullets soon.

Offline Racer X

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2008, 03:47:10 PM »
I have some Cast Performance 405 grain WLNGC that I load with 46 grains of H322 for my Guide Gun. Despite shot-to-shot velocity spreads of over 100 FPS, this load still shoots 1" cloverleafs at 100 yards. Average velocity is ~ 1500 FPS and it will penetrate 6" diameter pine trees with relatively mild recoil. Other than trajectory, I don't understand the need to run this bullet 1900 + FPS, as 1200 FPS would get me all the penetration I could ever need.
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Offline S.E.Ak

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2008, 02:55:28 AM »
I have taken two brown and seven black bears with the Hornady 350gr RN loaded to 1880 fps out of a Marlin 1895. If I ever move back to Alaska I'll just the factory Leverlution ammo. All my Hornady bears took just one bullet and broke everything that needed breaking.Pest bears in town were handled with Federal 2 3/4" 1 1/4oz slugs and the problem was stopped right now.

Offline Camp Cook

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2009, 12:24:52 PM »
Here are some of my 45-70 bullets that I shoot.

left to right
150gr JRN .308 far left for standard
300gr Spitzer Alpha Lafrank
300gr Hornady HP
350gr Swift A-Frame
405gr Beartooth GC
405gr Spitzer Alpha Lafrank
425gr Beartooth WLNGC
430gr Cast Performance WLNGC
450gr Barnes TSX
550gr Jae-Bok Joung "Crater" WLNGC
525gr Beartooth WLNGC



If you want to stick to cast I would recommend a 425gr WLNGC Beartooth Pile Driver or a 430gr Cast Performance WLNGC's Jae-Bok Young makes an awesome bullet called a Crater that I would also recommend.

My bullet of choice after using all of the above loads and many more is the 350gr Swift A-Frame.





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Offline BBF

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Re: Hunting black bear with a 45/70.
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2009, 03:53:58 AM »
I would presume that any standard pressure factory load would be sufficient for black bear. That doesn't mean there aren't some better then others and some will be more accurate with your rifle.

For handloading I just had a quick look:

Going to a 400 to 405 grain jacketed bullet you can get 1600 fps MV out of the barrel without needing 50 grains of powder.
IMR 4198 will do that with approx 40 gr and RX 7 can do it with 46 gr.

36.0 gr of IMR 4198 will push a 350 gr Speer bullet to over 1500fps

Hornady lists 32.0 gr to 45.3 grains of IMR 4198 for 1400 fps to 1900 fps  pushing the 350 gr, FN or RN at Lever Action pressures

My own load( pleasant to shoot) is 27 gr of 2400 and a 405 gr Rem bullet with MV of 1500+ fps. That would be more then enough for any black bear. For a 8lb rifle you have approx 21 lb of recoil energy to absorb.



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