Author Topic: New Black Powder Substitue (Read 1054 times)

McLernon · « **on:** February 07, 2008, 04:46:28 PM »

Anyone try the latest non-corrosive BP sub?? Apparently it cleans up with regular solvent so I would think it's nitro based but I'm told it isn't

And it is very clean burning, leaving little residue allowing many shots between bore wipings.

Mc

John Boy · « **Reply #1 on:** February 07, 2008, 04:50:27 PM »

Mc ... do you know the name of the powder and who makes it?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2008, 04:50:51 PM »

Real blackpowder cleans up with the original solvent, WATER!!

Tim

Busta · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2008, 10:01:28 PM »

Blackhorn 209? Ramshot product, distributed by Western Powder, Montana, developed by General Dynamics in Quebec.

Never heard of it. ;-)

A little light reading. Supposedly they have Powder ready for distribution now, probably be a month or three before we actually see it.

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/SpecialReport2.html

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/HuntReport2.html

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/LoadsBallistics.html

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/LoadsBallistics2.html

http://www.biggamehunt.net/sections/Muzzleloader/Western-Powders-New-Blackhorn-209-Muzzleloader-Propellant-01300812.html

http://www.chuckhawks.com/blackpowder_breakthrough.htm

McLernon · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2008, 04:59:12 AM »

Thanks Busta for the great post in reply to my request. Sounds like great stuff. Clever people these Canadians eh

I wonder when/if we'll see some loads for BPC's.

Thanks again all.

Mc

kevthebassman · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2008, 05:23:26 AM »

The real stuff cleans up as easy or easier than anything else I've used, but then I use a hooked breech cap lock and spit-patch between shots so cleaning for me is a 5 minute job in the worst of conditions. I helped a buddy clean an inline muzzleloader once, and became very glad that I never bought one.

Goex and cap lock rifle works for me, your mileage may vary.

rex6666 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2008, 05:56:48 AM »

AMEN
to the GOEX and soapy water takes me longer to get ready than to clean.
I use a hooked breach, percussion. I tried several subs. but the real stuff cleans uo easier.

McLernon · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2008, 06:03:54 AM »

Clean up is not required right after shooting because the powder residue is non-corrosive

Mc

Dillohide · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2008, 09:06:41 AM »

Wonder if it leaves a hard residue ring like 777? That was supposed to the end all, easy clean up substitute too. Not that I want to get anything started

Add me to the good old hot soapy water list as well.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2008, 09:28:02 AM »

I've not had any issues with the fouling ring on any of my inlines with 777 and musket nipples, but non-traditional, IE: 209 or pistol primers aren't legal here so I wouldn't know about them.

Tim

Dillohide · « **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2008, 10:06:47 AM »

Quote

I've not had any issues with the fouling ring on any of my inlines with 777

This was a prb, right where the ball sits.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2008, 10:14:44 AM »

I've not used 777 with PRB, just in my inlines with conicals and sabots, I haven't had a persuction round ball gun for almost 20 years, only flinters and they only get fed Goex.

Tim

coyotejoe · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2008, 10:15:38 AM »

I always got a chuckle out of the substitute powder add which proudly proclaim "cleans up with just water". Well what doesn't?

Maybe this wonderful new stuff cleans with regular nito solvent, but you still have to deal with lead and or plastic fouling. Black Powder is messy and stinky but it also is dependable which I can't say for any of the substitute powders I've tried so far. All in all I find Goex or Grafs black powder so satisfactory I'll let others test this new powder and find the hidden defects, if any. Since I shoot flintlocks I don't expect any substitute powders will work for me.

ihookem · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2008, 03:16:06 PM »

Sounds more like smokeless powder than anything. Extruded powder? cleans up well. Just too expensive for me. I will stay with 777 until it's gone. By then it should be a bunch cheaper. If not I might buy some any way.

McLernon · « **Reply #14 on:** February 09, 2008, 04:01:29 PM »

When my 777 is gone I plan to buy some Black Horn too. Anyone see any load data yet?

Mc

Hammerspur · « **Reply #15 on:** February 09, 2008, 04:43:59 PM »

Uhhh... you mean like this

Quote from: Busta on February 07, 2008, 10:01:28 PM

Blackhorn 209? Ramshot product, distributed by Western Powder, Montana, developed by General Dynamics in Quebec.
Never heard of it. ;-)
A little light reading. Supposedly they have Powder ready for distribution now, probably be a month or three before we actually see it.

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/LoadsBallistics.html

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/LoadsBallistics2.html

Oops

McLernon · « **Reply #16 on:** February 09, 2008, 04:51:24 PM »

Duh, am I missing something------ I meant load data for BP cartridges like the 45-70 et. al.

Mc

Hammerspur · « **Reply #17 on:** February 09, 2008, 04:53:37 PM »

Quote from: McLernon on February 09, 2008, 04:51:24 PM

Duh, am I missing something------

Mc

Guess I did!

Steve

McLernon · « **Reply #18 on:** February 09, 2008, 04:57:29 PM »

It's O.K. Steve, you're forgiven.

Mc

Busta · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2008, 06:53:34 PM »

Quote from: McLernon on February 09, 2008, 04:01:29 PM

When my 777 is gone I plan to buy some Black Horn too. Anyone see any load data yet?

Mc

Mc,

I haven't seen any BPC load information yet, but the jug says "for modern muzzleloaders and black powder cartridge". Then it also says "use standard 209 shotshell primer". I haven't seen any reports of it being ignited by rifle primers, but I am sure the magnum rifle primers should work, especially the large. Unless they were only talking about shotgun cartridges lit up by 209 primers? I plan on testing it with my .25 ACP ignition with small rifle primers, might have to get small rifle magnum primers too.

Toby reports that a 100 grain VOLUME charge of BH209 = just under 70 grains by WEIGHT. If you check his loads Volume of BH209 and 777, knowing the VOLUME of 100 grains 777 = approximately 77.7 grains by WEIGHT, you should be able to figure out how much VOLUME of BH209 you can get into your cartridge case, the WEIGHT will be 70% (0.70) of that VOLUME.

See BH209 Powder Jug photo in following link.

http://www.biggamehunt.net/sections/Muzzleloader/Western-Powders-New-Blackhorn-209-Muzzleloader-Propellant-01300812.html

dumgunny · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2008, 07:27:12 PM »

777's real problems start when you light it off with regular shotgun or rifle or pistol primers. That "Hard Ring" only occurs when the ignition source is too hot. I use it all the time with percussion caps, and musket caps and no ring. But my Contender 50 mag barrel with 209 primers formed a hard ring in about 3 shots that was hard enough to fool me into believing that I had the bullet seated tight against the powder. Luckily I double checked with my ramrod mark and saw that the bullet was almost a full inch ABOVE the charge. BTW there are now special "low temp" 209 primers available that are supposed to fix the problem.
But I'll agree that good ol' Charcoal is the most fun, especially when shooting the old C&B revolvers. I always use Crisco to seal the chambers, and cornmeal for a filler sometimes, and it smells like Grandma's kitchen on the range, well.....ok.....maybe grandmas kitchen when the wind kicks up from behind the privvy...............=P
my 2¢
DG

McLernon · « **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2008, 03:46:56 AM »

Hi Busta:

Very observant of you

Thanks a bunch.

Mc

McLernon · « **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2008, 06:11:17 AM »

I might actually try BP again in my 45-70. It has been along time since I used it in my 1858 Enfield and as I recall it was a real nuisance to clean up, but so many are saying it's more consistent etc. What's a person to think with BP, Goex, American something or other, and now Black Horn non-corrosive sub?

Mc

kevthebassman · « **Reply #23 on:** February 10, 2008, 01:44:51 PM »

Quote from: McLernon on February 10, 2008, 06:11:17 AM

and now Black Horn non-corrosive sub?

I don't buy "non-corrosive" for one second. It'd be a cold day in hell before I would leave a black powder rifle uncleaned.