Author Topic: .22 Hornet bullet size (Read 4547 times)

Star1pup · « **on:** January 27, 2008, 12:43:10 PM »

I understand that the older Hornets were .223 rather than .224. My buddy has an older Savage. Does that mean that the bullets I get for my new Hornet will be too big for his?

dw06 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2008, 12:48:17 PM »

You understood correct.You can still buy bullets in .223 for the older ones.I have an old savage 22 hornet that I shoot 45gr hornadys in,tried both sizes and the .224s shot best in it so thats what it gets.

Star1pup · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2008, 12:55:27 PM »

Quote from: dw06 on January 27, 2008, 12:48:17 PM

You understood correct.You can still buy bullets in .223 for the older ones.I have an old savage 22 hornet that I shoot 45gr hornadys in,tried both sizes and the .224s shot best in it so thats what it gets.

A friend recommended against the Hornet because of the lack of bullet options, but if it takes the .224 there are plenty of those around. I just have to watch the weight. I load 50gr Speer in my .222, so there is not much difference in bullet weight between the two. Interesting.

Ramjet · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2008, 02:01:04 PM »

Star1pup , I have had a 22 Hornet since the early 90's . Their great fun .The new ones take .224 and by new I mean anything built in the last 20 years . I do think the CZ's are .223 but I think most guys use 224 bullets anyway .The Hornet is a reloader's cartridge .It is very delicate and good loads can sometimes hard to find .If you want your loads to be simple and easy get a 221Rem Fireball .If you are willing to play with something until you get it right then get a Hornet .I love mine ( Contender Carbine ,21" barrel , Bushnell Elite 3200 4X12) . Getting sub MOA for this gun took a number of trials of not just powder and bullets but different types of dies and crimps .The Hornet will teach you a lot about reloading and is great fun to shoot . Drop me an email if you want to know what I do . If you are a serious shooter you will like the Hornet . I think I would stay away from the Ruger 77- 22 Hornet I have read a lot of negative reports on them .However , the Savage , CZ , and Contender are all good.

just bill · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2008, 04:39:14 AM »

Quote from: dw06 on January 27, 2008, 12:48:17 PM

You understood correct.You can still buy bullets in .223 for the older ones.I have an old savage 22 hornet that I shoot 45gr hornadys in,tried both sizes and the .224s shot best in it so thats what it gets.

On varmints how have the Hornady 45's expanded/fraged for you? What velocity do you load them to?

Catfish · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2008, 05:36:56 AM »

I got a .22 Hornet back in the early 70`s and remember hearing then that you had to watch the older Hornets because they had a .223 bore. I`m not sure when they switched, but I think it was in the 1960`s. To find out you can simply slug the bore.

dw06 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2008, 08:30:08 AM »

Quote from: just bill on February 11, 2008, 04:39:14 AM

On varmints how have the Hornady 45's expanded/fraged for you? What velocity do you load them to?

just bill, In my handi rifle I was using 10grs ww296 for around 2600. They not only expanded well but would exit ground hogs most of the time,leaving a dime size hole on exit.Now if you want one to come clear apart inside, the 40grbt or vmax did that!! I tried the 35gr vmaxs, while they shot great had trouble on ground hogs with them and gave up on them.Butfor all around use the 45gr hornady did great for me.

fatercat · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2008, 02:30:54 AM »

I've got the ruger and it does just fine. i had to put a timmy trigger in it. lt will do 1" OR LESS lil'gun powder and 45 gn.

rks1949 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2008, 11:42:18 PM »

I shoot a M40 Savage,and it will shoot any bullet from 35gr.-55grs. well. The 40-50bullets will stay at sub .5 at 100yds. all day long. Just started shooting the 55's,but they show great promise of shooting well also. I've heard of guy's shooting the 60gr. V-Max,but haven't tried any so far! Just buy a pound of Lil Gun powder and STAY within the loading guide lines 12-13grs. (allways start low around 10% less) and you will find a load that works in the Savage. The gun is very flexable (the best I've seen in a Hornet). I've never heard of a Savage M40 that didn't shoot well. Ron

just bill · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2008, 03:26:02 AM »

Quote from: dw06 on February 11, 2008, 08:30:08 AM

Quote from: just bill on February 11, 2008, 04:39:14 AM

On varmints how have the Hornady 45's expanded/fraged for you? What velocity do you load them to?

just bill, In my handi rifle I was using 10grs ww296 for around 2600. They not only expanded well but would exit ground hogs most of the time,leaving a dime size hole on exit.Now if you want one to come clear apart inside, the 40grbt or vmax did that!! I tried the 35gr vmaxs, while they shot great had trouble on ground hogs with them and gave up on them.Butfor all around use the 45gr hornady did great for me.

Thanks, I have two Hornets one is a Handi. I will try that load w) the H-45-PSP bullet some time. Still exited though huh?

I shot maybe 35-40 Woodchucks last summer with the 40g V Max and Lil Gun load. While extremely accurate, I had exits (same about a dime or nickle) on 99%..........all but the very close range. I concluded that the 40 V Max does not frag well at Hornet velocities.........although it anchored them. I hear the same in Blitzking does better at lower velocities.

I do feel that when your stretching things to 175-200 yards on Woodchucks that nothing is more consistent out there at less velocity than a soft point, and the Hornady with its .202 bc and 45 grains...........carries the bacon

I have a pretty accurate load now with the H-45-PSP using 12.0 Lil Gun............like you around 2600fps.........seems to be what that bullet likes because as I increased the load it opened up. I shot s few with it last year.............just did not look real hard at how the bullet performed

Thanks

alsaqr · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2008, 01:01:22 PM »

The only Hornets that I am aware of that have .223 bores are the Winchester model 54 and some early Savage guns. The first .22 Hornets were built from military Springfield .22 rimfires. These also have .223 bores.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #11 on:** February 15, 2008, 06:32:21 AM »

We make far too much of .001" in bullet diameter, so long as it chambers easily .001" over groove diameter is nothing. P.O.Ackley once did a pressure test with a .270 barrel. He first fired a series of shots with a certain powder charge behind a 150 grain .277" bullet and recorder perssures. He then opened the neck and throat and loaded a 150 grain .284' bullet and fired it down the .270 bore, same powder charge produced the same pressure. He then went on to .308, .312, .323, and finally .358 all fired down the .270 bore and with the largest sizes pressures became eratic but all averaged about the same as had the .277" bullet. Another gunsmith who's name I don't recall did a similar test using an old SMLE action and also came to the same conclusion, so long as the neck and throat are not too tight, even grossly oversize bullets do no harm.

glwenzl · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2008, 04:14:37 PM »

I have heard that the CZ hornets are still 223 bore size and they seem to shoot the best.... I sure like the Hornady Hornet bullets in mine, sometimes use em in my 221 Fireball too....

DDelle338 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 27, 2008, 02:36:39 AM »

Quote from: coyotejoe on February 15, 2008, 06:32:21 AM

We make far too much of .001" in bullet diameter, so long as it chambers easily .001" over groove diameter is nothing. P.O.Ackley once did a pressure test with a .270 barrel. He first fired a series of shots with a certain powder charge behind a 150 grain .277" bullet and recorder perssures. He then opened the neck and throat and loaded a 150 grain .284' bullet and fired it down the .270 bore, same powder charge produced the same pressure. He then went on to .308, .312, .323, and finally .358 all fired down the .270 bore and with the largest sizes pressures became eratic but all averaged about the same as had the .277" bullet. Another gunsmith who's name I don't recall did a similar test using an old SMLE action and also came to the same conclusion, so long as the neck and throat are not too tight, even grossly oversize bullets do no harm.

You may have some difficulty shooting .223's out of a .224 bore. I know I did. The bullets were tumbling by the time they went 90-100 yds. Some going through the target sideways and one I know went through base first, made a perfect wad-cutter type hole.

muskeg13 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 28, 2008, 08:11:48 PM »

coyotejoe is dead on target. I don't think having bullets .001 oversized being a good thing only applies to cast bullets. I contacted CZ to find out their Hornet bore diameter and was told it was .223. OK. When I got my M527, I slugged it and came up with .2235. Guess what? It shoots either .223 or .224 factory bullets accurately, with the .224 Hornady V-Maxs, in either the 35gr or 40gr being the best. It also shoots cast bullets sized to .225 into under an inch (less than minute of grouse) at 50yds and a bit more. I wouldn't worry too much about .22 Hornet bore sizes, unless you intend to get a really old and cheap Hornet rifle and attempt to load it with hot handloads.

I'll also say that as for rumors: that CZ rifles are accurate has proven true for me, and that the Hornet is difficult to load for is definitely false.

303Guy · « **Reply #15 on:** March 29, 2008, 07:00:46 PM »

Quote from: coyotejoe on February 15, 2008, 06:32:21 AM

..... P.O.Ackley once did a pressure test with a .270 barrel....... so long as the neck and throat are not too tight, even grossly oversize bullets do no harm.

Excellent news!

I use 224 bullets in my 0.233 bore Anschutz. I have difficulty getting the pressure high enough to get consistent burn with Lil'Gun. I use a cardboard wad instead of crimping. I have often wondered whether I could use 8mm bullets in my 303 Brit! That would open up a whole new bullet selection range. (I would have expected pressure to up a bit due to better bore sealing - especially with a bore like the 303 Lee Enfield has).

Quote

..... I've heard of guy's shooting the 60gr. V-Max, .....

Yup. I shoot 60gr Hornady spire points on top of 13.1gr Lil'Gun (and a wad). (I do need to trim off the exposed lead tip to make them fit my mag). I have found the 55gr SP's (on top of 13.7gr Lil'Gun and wad) and the 60gr spires to do a lot of damage beyond 100m - a bit like hitting 'em with a 223! At closer ranges it is like hitting 'em with a 223 at 100m. Accuracy is as good as the best I have had with any bullet and powder. (My best group was with Nosler 55gr boat tails - no wad)! This might be possible due the tighter bore.

Quote

....I have had a 22 Hornet since the early 90's . They're great fun. .....

Oh yes, indeed! You haven't lived until you have 'played around' with the hornet!
It can be as easy as any cartridge or as complicated as you choose to make it. e.g. reloading without resizing, using a cardboard wad plus lubed paper patch and/or 'gueing' the bullet into the neck with molten bullet lube, making it perform better than a k-hornet (for which the long neck and very shallow angle shoulder is needed). Great fun. And even more fun to shoot with!

coyotejoe · « **Reply #16 on:** May 10, 2008, 05:25:55 AM »

Quote from: 303Guy on March 29, 2008, 07:00:46 PM

Excellent news!

I use 224 bullets in my 0.233 bore Anschutz. I have difficulty getting the pressure high enough to get consistent burn with Lil'Gun. I use a cardboard wad instead of crimping. I have often wondered whether I could use 8mm bullets in my 303 Brit! That would open up a whole new bullet selection range. (I would have expected pressure to up a bit due to better bore sealing - especially with a bore like the 303 Lee Enfield has).

Please note " IF THE NECK AND THROAT ARE LARGE ENOUGH" I wouldn't try .323" bullets in an issue .303 chamber. Also, Ackley's experiment dealt only with pressure, he never tested accuracy of the oversize bullets and I'd not care to guess what that may be like.
As to getting "a consistent burn with Lil' Gun", I never have. I had some very strange experiences with that powder with wild variation of pressure and velocity from one shot to the next, the only constant was constant variation. Frankly, the stuff scares me, many others have reported excellent results, so it may well have been a problem with just that one can of Lil' Gun but I don't find that thought very comforting either. It does show excellent velocity from the Hornet, if you believe Hodgdon's listed loads, but if you want .222 ballistics why buy a Hornet in the first place?

Kmrere42 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2008, 01:47:03 AM »

Hi,

Speaking of Lil'Gun powder, I have stopped using it for my hornet because of the wild pressure readings that I would get. Some cases were smooth in the pressure ring area while others were badly expanded to the point of being sharp edged with very flattened primers. This was 12.5gr Lil'Gun and 40gr V-max and new Remington cases and Remington Sm pistol primers.

I am using a Savage model 40. The rifle shoots very well averaging 1/2" - 3/4" with most loads if I do my part. The only thing that I would change would be to turn the barrel back a thread and use a small size reamer and tighten up the head space.

Anyone know how savage puts on the barrel for the models 40 and 25.

Paul

coyotejoe · « **Reply #18 on:** June 05, 2008, 04:06:41 AM »

That exactly matches my own experience with "Lil-Gun" powder, wild pressure spikes and extreme velocity variation from shot to shot. I first tried it in a .22 K Hornet, thought it must be just that one rifle, so I tried it in an M1 carbine, .357 mag and .357 max rifles and all showed the same extreme variations. I even sent twenty loaded rounds to Hodgdon to test and they had the same result in their pressure barrel but were not willing to consider the possiblity there could be a problem with their powder even though they could not find any other cause for the pressure spikes. Maybe after a few people blow themselves up Hodgdon may take another look at it, but probably not because it is just so easy to blame "reloader error".

trotterlg · « **Reply #19 on:** June 10, 2008, 05:43:10 PM »

Kmrere42: I think you will find your barrel is pinned in like a 22 rf is. Larry

Tallwalker · « **Reply #20 on:** September 07, 2008, 04:25:18 PM »

Quote from: Kmrere42 on June 03, 2008, 01:47:03 AM

Hi,

Speaking of Lil'Gun powder, I have stopped using it for my hornet because of the wild pressure readings that I would get. Some cases were smooth in the pressure ring area while others were badly expanded to the point of being sharp edged with very flattened primers. This was 12.5gr Lil'Gun and 40gr V-max and new Remington cases and Remington Sm pistol primers.

I am using a Savage model 40. The rifle shoots very well averaging 1/2" - 3/4" with most loads if I do my part. The only thing that I would change would be to turn the barrel back a thread and use a small size reamer and tighten up the head space.

Anyone know how savage puts on the barrel for the models 40 and 25.

Paul

I'm trying another approach to tighten up headspace. I expanded my cases with a 25 caliber expander in a 25 WSSM die, and then adjusted my Hornet sizing die until the bolt just closed on the case. Try to keep folks updated on how that works when I get to a range.

NebraskaHunter · « **Reply #21 on:** September 08, 2008, 10:55:45 PM »

I have completed my quest for the right load for my 22 hornet. I did find that the 40gr bullets with Lil'gun and a small pistol primer did the trick. The loads I tried are==

40gr sierra hornet bullet (.224)
13gr lil'gun
small pistol primer (cci)
Seated to the depth recommended in the sierra manual.

This load was superbly accurate in my cz 527. It shot as good as I could hold the rifle. I got 5 shot groups from one ragged hole to the largest group of 1 inch. When I did my part the groups ranged 1/2 to 3/4 inch.
this load was so stable and predictable that I am sure the variation in group size was my shooting ability. I settled on this load. I don't know for sure without a chronograph but suspect speeds of 2800fps.

I also tried
45gr hornaday
296 powder
small rifle primer.
This grouped around 1.5 to 2 inches.

also tried
sierra 50gr
lil'gun powder
small rifle primer.
this grouped around 3 inches.

I don't have to look any futher. The 40gr sierra hornet bullet and lil'gun is good enough for me. While I like heavier bullets I will use whatever shoots the best. I don't think anything I shoot with the 40gr bullet will know it wasn't hit by a 45 or 50gr slug. I wasn't looking for speed but the 40gr load that shoots good for my gun is pretty darn fast at a predicted 2800 to 2900 per manual. As an added bonus those semi pointed round nose bullets fit my clip perfectly and function just as they should. I love the look of the semi point round. It just looks like what I think a hornet cartridge should look like. Now to get out and use it.
Nebraska Hunter.

None of the heavier bullets did well in this cz rifle. Thanks to those who took the time to list loads for me to try. It steered me to the 40gr bullets.