Pistol Scope or ???

[cgturner7]

Once I get my .357 barrel I will be mounting a scope "scout rifle" style.  I need some advice on which scope and which power.  I was thinking Weaver or Swift 4x.  Any other suggestions?

[quickdtoo]

I just ordered a Japan made Weaver 2x28 for my 357mag scout mount, the larger 28mm ojective should provide a bit bigger field of view than a 20mm scope, Natchez has em on sale for $35-$50 less than anyone else. At less than 7oz, it should be fine with just two screws in the 92a base.

Tim

http://www.natchezss.com/brand.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=SN&prodID=SN849423

[Slufoot]

Eye relief is what you are going to have to keep in mind. The lower the power, the less critical the eye relief is. If you mount your base where the rear sight holes are you will be able to mount a scope a maximum of roughly 13" away from your eye. This of coarse depends on where your face rests on the stock and how long the scope is.
I mounted a 2x Leupold pistol scope on my 45-70 Handi rifle and I have modified the Weaver 92A base to allow the scope to be mounted as far forward as possible. The scope worked great on the unmodified base at about 12" from my eye but I am using Low Weaver rings and they are so low that the eye piece of the scope would contact the base if I wanted to move it any more forward. I put my base in the milling machine and took off enough to let the eye piece clear and then cut another cross slot. I moved the scope turret up against the front ring and installed the rear ring in the new cross slot I cut. This modification gave me about 13" of eye relief and a little extra room for carrying the rifle with my hand wrapped around the frame. I took a couple of pictures to show you what I have done as it's easier to show than try to explain.
Whichever scope you choose just make sure you have a good sight picture through it at about 12" from your eye.
I'm sure you will like your scout rifle when you get it finished. I feel like the Handi is a natural for this type of rig.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[coyotejoe]

Once I get my .357 barrel I will be mounting a scope "scout rifle" style.  I need some advice on which scope and which power.  I was thinking Weaver or Swift 4x.  Any other suggestions?

Bear in mind that long eye relief comes at the expense of reduced field of view. Make an "O" with thumb and forefinger and look through it at the landscape. If the O is close to the eye you can see a lot of landscape inside the O. But move it farther from the eye and you can see very little and the more you magnify the image, the less will fit inside the O. The basic idea of a scout scope is to look both through and around the scope and that works well only with magnification no higher than 2 1/2 or 3 power. I've found that a shotgun scope with 5-6" of eye relief can be mounted on the factory scope rail with the eye piece ahead of the hammer and still provide an adequate field of view at 4X magnification, not so large as a regular 4x rifle scope but since I don't shoot running game with a rifle, the 4x shotgun scope is adequate for me.

[Graybeard]

At the risk of hurting your feelings or ruffling some feathers I must say that the scout rifle/scope concept is about the dumbest thing to come along in a long long while. Handgun scopes or for that matter any scope with an extended eye relief loses field of view drastically out of proportion to the increase in eye relief. What possible reason can you have for wanting the scope that far forward at the expense of FOV?

Objective size has zero to do with either eye relief or FOV. It's the internal optics and how they are arranged and made that determine both not the external lens. The absolute widest FOV of any handgun scope is 21' at 100 yards and there are darn few with that. All of them are either rated at 2x or are variables with the lower power setting rated at 2X or even less.

I doubt seriously there is a fixed power or variable rifle scope that has such a small FOV with less than 4x or more magnification. Why would you give up that FOV and magnification range to move it out to the barrel further? Just makes no sense to me. The idea is as kooky as the fellow who came up with it in my opinion. The first thing I used to do when I got the magazines that he wrote for was to tear out the page with his article on it and put it in the trash can so I could be sure my eyes didn't have to see it at any point in reading the magazine. Yeah that's my opinion of him.

[McLernon]

Wow!

Mc

[quickdtoo]

Don't hold back Bill, tell us what you really think about scout scopes!!

Tim

[McLernon]

 Good stuff Tim

Mc

[Graybeard]

I'm real shy and hate to just let it all hang out don't ya know. 

Hey I never said you guys were wrong and me right just giving ya my take on them. Ya'll didn't get the impression I don't like them did ya? 

[McLernon]

Good stuff GB

Mc

[Slufoot]

When using a low power scope of about 3x or less and using the rifle with both eyes open the field of view is unlimited.
You aren't just looking through the scope as you do with a conventionally mounted optic but you are looking through and around it. You get the whole picture of your target and everything around it. On a moving target you will see trees and openings well before the target gets to them because there is no limit on the field of view you have with this type of setup.
I feel this setup is best used for hunting in the woods, brush gun type of hunting, and I also feel like the straight wall cartridges are the best candidates for this type of system. I certainly wouldn't want to put it on a 26" barreled 25-06.
I know this system isn't for everyone but there must be enough interest to warrant a few scope base manufacturers to make scout bases and Ruger even offered a rifle setup from the factory for the scout concept.
I never really thought much about the scout rifle until I got my 45-70 Handi. I have always liked to mount my scope as close to the barrel as possible, with a Handi you have to go high enough for hammer clearance. I had also installed a peep sight on this gun and hunted with it, I didn't want to mess up the carrying qualities of the Handi rifle. I also wanted to keep the peep sight for a backup sighting system. These three things (low mount, handling and backup peep) lead me to try the scout setup on my rifle and I'm very glad I did because it works great for me.
Another advantage to this system is the non-critical eye relief. I have gotten into situations before while deer hunting when I had to make a shot at an awkward angle and this made it difficult to get a good picture through the scope. I once shot a nice 8 point buck with my scoped muzzle loader, he sneaked in behind me at about 15 yards and I had to twist my body around and rest the butt of the rifle on my bicep to get the scope on him. I knew my eye was to close to the scope but I paid the price anyway to get the buck. This wouldn't happen with a scope mounted out on the barrel.
As you can tell I like the system for a woods type gun. Some like-em some don't, to each his own.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[trotterlg]

A scout mount scope has a lot wider field of view than a Peep Sight does.  Larry

[canon6]

I have been using Scout Scopes since 1994 and have used them for everything from jack rabbit to elk.The field of view  matter may or may not be a viable measure.It depends on what you are using the scope for.
It is  my last choice for target work and my first in the game fields.   Doug

[woodchukhntr]

Bill,  have you tried one yet, I don't mean just picked up and looked at it, I mean taking it out and shooting it?

My.45-70 Handi Scout works just fine.  What I like about it is that you can grasp the rifle around the action area just like the iron-sighted rifle.  You don't have to wrap your hand around the scope and action as when it is conventionally scoped. 

I think that coyotejoe is correct about 2 1/2 to 3 power being the upper limit.  When I get a .30-30 Handi or a barrel for my Contender Carbine, I'll put a T/C 2 to 7 power pistol scope on it and try it out on the higher powers (the higher powers sure don't help on a pistol in my experience).

Does anybody know if the Weaver 92A base will work with the .30-30 barrel since it is more tapered than the .45-70?

[trotterlg]

A contender mount is the proper raidus for a Handi bull barrel 22 Mag, the barrel taper works out fine, plenty of scope adjustment, this is a 2.5X illuminated scope on a 22 Mag.  I just leave it at my place in AZ for an occasional Coyote.  Larry

[Fred M]

I agree with GB, these long eye relieve scopes are not very practicle
specially on a rifle where you can mount a regular scope. The are finicky
about eye placement, at least mine is. Not much chance on a moving target.

For a pair of old eyes they are ok for shooting mice at 5-10yrds or a crow at
15 yrds. I only ever got one crow at that range.

Below is a Beeman P1 with a 2x Burris air pistol scope. The scope has AO but it rarely ever gets moved from 10yrds. It is ok for an air pistol, without my home made stock from a left over shotgun butt, it was nearly useless.

[Winter Hawk]

Well now, it seems to me that back in the mid to late 1960s, when the long eye relief scopes were first coming out at a price the commoner could afford, a lot of stuff was written about mounting them on long guns.  A friend of mine had one put on his '95 Mauser in 7mm and it worked well enough for him in 1969.  Nobody had decided to call this setup a "scout" rifle back then.  The idea kind of dropped after that until it was revived by Bill's friend.  I always liked it because it makes the rifle balance easier when carried.  I also seem to remember reading about the German snipers using a like setup during WW-II, but I could be mistook on that.

-WH-