Author Topic: handi 45/70 misfire  (Read 1926 times)

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Offline STUMPJMPR

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handi 45/70 misfire
« on: December 24, 2007, 08:45:00 AM »
I have a handi in 45/70....today at the range i had 2 misfires shooting the hornady leverevolution....this was out of a box of bullets i bought last year.....i have hear that if you didn't have the trigger pulled all the way there could be some inconsistent results when firing the handi's.....but i cocked it and tried to the fire both rounds several times with no luck....i have heard of a bad lot of hornady 30-30 that were supposedly squib loads....I pulled the bullet and found it to be loaded with powder but the primer appeared to have not fired....any ideas?

Offline blackpowderbill

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Re: handi 45/70 misfire
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2007, 08:58:48 AM »
I have not measured mine yet but I think that the Handi rifle's FP protrusion may be on the minimal side. I have have miss fires with reloads if I seat the primer below the level of the base. If I seat it perfectly flush I have no trouble.
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Offline STUMPJMPR

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Re: handi 45/70 misfire
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2007, 02:57:05 AM »
Now that you mention it.....I did compare the firing pin mark in the cartridge to cartridges that fired and it appears to be a little more shallow.....so that is probably the case when those rounds were loaded at the factor the primer was probably smashed a little bit....which is something i did when i first started reloading and having the the priming tool set too long....

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: handi 45/70 misfire
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2007, 03:24:30 AM »
I can't tell you why those rounds misfired, but as to the apparent light pin indents, a primer which fails to fire will always show a more shallow indent than one which does fire. When they fire, the internal pressure drives the primer cup back to the breech face and sort of molds itself around the pin tip. Obviously that pressure molding won't happen with a misfire so the indent looks more shallow. You can see that for yourself if you'll kill a couple of primers by soaking them with WD-40 for a few minutes before seating them into an empty case, then compare the indent of the dead primers to a couple of live primers. Of course, do exercise care, a primer alone makes a very loud POP with enough muzzle blast to blow through several layers of cloth at the muzzle.
 But it is also true that H&R/NEF long guns due depend on trigger over-travel to raise the transfer bar and that can be troublesome if you have a very light trigger. But my guess would be defective primers rather than defective rifle.
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Offline STUMPJMPR

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Re: handi 45/70 misfire
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2007, 04:16:08 AM »
That is the way i am leaning a couple of defective primers....Anytime i ever had a misfire in the past a second hammer drop would set it off....except on your occasional 22 misfire which buying bricks of those you have several duds....I forgot about the whole thing where the primer and case are driven backwards and i believe i read that when the case is driven backwards it actually pushes the primer back into place...if i remember right when you have backed out primers its because your pressures are too high and the case isn't being driven back but instead swelling too fast in place.....

Offline Slufoot

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Re: handi 45/70 misfire
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2007, 07:40:57 AM »
I would measure the rim thickness of the Hornady brass and then I would measure the depth of the rim recess in the chamber plus the barrel to frame gap.
The difference in these measurements has to be .006" or less to comply with SAAMI standards for headspace.

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Offline wtroger

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Re: handi 45/70 misfire
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2007, 12:23:35 PM »
I am not going to say this is your problem but the the last three 45-70 handi barrels I have had all have excessive head space issues (they will close on a no go gage) Two where factory fit barrels the third I fitted and you could not pull out a .0015 ribbon gage and it still would let a no go gage close so they tend to be chambered deep. It doesn't seem to present a safety issues but you will experience misfires it you have primers that are set deep or are a little hard. You can check this by seating a live primer in a case and fire it with no load just point in safe direction then measure how far above the base the primer stands that is your head space. And right this min I can't remember what is allowable. But I believe any thing more that .006 is considered excessive.

Offline Fred M

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Re: handi 45/70 misfire
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2007, 01:28:08 PM »
Most factory primers are 0.002 below the base. Cases prepaired with a primer pocket uniformer will als set primers 0.002" below the base.

Firing pin protusion is around 35-45 more than enough to over come most headspace problems, but if a case is moved forward by the hammer blow that will usually give you a misfire.

With a straight wall case like the 45-70 the rim will establish the location of
the cartridge in the chamber. Try to make sure the the case is seated solid against rim seat in the chamber. For reloading use a softer primer like Rem or Win.

If you still get misfires look at my firing pin tune up in the FAQ and replace the hammer spring. Trigger follow through id a common shooter fault.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline Mac11700

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Re: handi 45/70 misfire
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2007, 02:54:54 PM »


FWIW..I had 3 out of a box of last years production LE ammo that failed to fire in my Optima Elite..It wasn't the rifle but the ammo...If other ammo works fine...it most likely isn't your rifle..but that particular lot of ammo..Call Hornady and speak with them..They will request you send it back to them for evaluation...and will reimburse you with more ammo...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline STUMPJMPR

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Re: handi 45/70 misfire
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2007, 03:25:36 PM »
I lost all of my reloading equipment during hurricane katrina about 2 years ago and haven't gotten back into reloading yet....so at the time i don't have any way to measure the rim thickness or even estimated head space......but like i said i am really leaning towards faulty ammo...i have 2 other barrels fitted for that same reciever.....it came in 500s&w...i had it fitted for 45/70 and 243win......however, if your thinking about buying a 500 s&w handi.....you might wanna pass....that thing was pure murder on the shoulder......

Offline 44 Man

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Re: handi 45/70 misfire
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2007, 09:05:21 PM »
You didn't say if this is a gun you bought new or used.  I recently had the same problem with a used 30-30.  It had fired fine through two boxes of Winchester 150 gr ammo but misfired when I tried a couple of rounds of factory 170's.  It did turn out to be a firing pin problem though.  I got by fine with the 150's but apparently the 170's had just enough harder of a primer to make my problem show up.  Read my recent post '30-30 misfire'.  44 Man
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Offline STUMPJMPR

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Re: handi 45/70 misfire
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2007, 02:19:53 AM »
44man....i bought it brand new and had the 45/70 barrel factory installed....i really think it was a problem with ammo.....the primer had a nice dent in it....it was a little more shallow than a fired case....but fired cases are driven backwards slightly which causes a deeper firing pin mark....im going  to write it off as bad ammo for now...

Offline 44 Man

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Re: handi 45/70 misfire
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2007, 05:16:40 AM »
Well, besides being lots of fun, a lot of shooting will prove it one way or the other.  44 Man
You are never too old to have a happy childhood!