Author Topic: Cast bullets for the .454  (Read 2265 times)

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Offline doghawg

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Cast bullets for the .454
« on: December 22, 2007, 07:34:29 AM »
  I've been loading for a few decades now but am a rookie with .454 Model 83's. My goal is a good cast bullet in the 275 to 300 gr. range that will clock at around 1100 to 1300 fps while using .454 brass. I've already figured out that it better not be any fatter than .451".  I'm sure many of you folks have already been down this road so before I try and re-invent the wheel...........Does anyone have any suggestions on bullet styles (LFN, WLNGC, WFN etc.) and weights from commercial casters that have been proven performers in your experiences?

 Thanks

Offline Humbo

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Re: Cast bullets for the .454
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2007, 08:45:01 AM »
This is something I would also like to know. I've tried different molds, but so far the RCBS 300 grs SWCGC has been the best. Accuracy and penetration is as good as any jacketed bullet I've tried.

Offline kennisondan

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Re: Cast bullets for the .454
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2007, 09:03:32 AM »
The wfn's are not liked as much by the longer range shooters... I like LFN gas checked and use Beartooth, Precision Cast, Montana Bullet works, there are many good ones out there .... Mount Baldy is well liked... the Keith style and LBT styles are favorites of mine ...  if you are not going over 1300 fps there is little requirement for gas checks but I use them ...
dk

Offline stevejr454

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Re: Cast bullets for the .454
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2007, 09:06:49 AM »
Dawg, Humbo

Here is a web sight you should both check out.  http://www.castperformance.com/Categories.bok?category=Cast+Performance&searchpath=5940&start=17&total=105

I have been using their Lead Cat Performance bullets for many years. In my opinion they are the best bullets on the market. I shoot the 360 grain bullets. This bullet seems to work very well for me. All five rounds will bench test at 25 yards with all them touching.

I have also used this load to kill a buffalo. It was a one shot kill at 25 yards between the eyes. I hope to use this same load to take an Alaska moose here in Galena my new home.

Sorry to ramble on Dawg and Humbo, I guess you can see how much I think of their bullets. Give them a try I'm sure you will see why I like them so much. No I am not a salesmen for them, or an employee, just a sportsman who likes quality products that help me enjoy the thing I like to do when not working.

Steve Hoffine Jr. Freedom Arms Collector/shooter

Offline paul105

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Re: Cast bullets for the .454
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2007, 10:16:36 AM »
Dawg,

I have a .454 that I bought about 20 years ago.  I struggled with it off and on over the years due to what I thought was tight throats.  FA Factory 300gr ammo had to be forced the last bit into the chambers with heavy finger pressure.  A year ago (yeah, I have a high tolerance for pain -- actually just lazy) I needed some work done to my M97 and mentioned the tight throats on the .454 to John at FA.  He had me send the .454 cyl in along with the 97.  When it came back the tight throat problem was fixed.  The original throats were extremely abrupt (no chamfer/taper at the rear of the throat).  From what I remember, FA chamfered/tapered the lead into the throats, but didn't open them up.  The throats will let a .452 bullet pass but not a .453, so call them .4525.  We slugged the bore, and it is right at .453.

So, my first suggestion is to see if a .452 jacketed bullet will pass thru the cyl throats from the rear of the cylinder.  If not, see if they will pass thru from the face of the cylinder – if they do, you may have the same problem that I had.  If not, you’ll probably have to use cast bullets sized .451 just so they will chamber.

From my recent experiences with the FA 475 LB (and the fixed .454), any of the Keith SWCs with the wide front drive band above cyl throat diameter are virtually impossible to seat in tight throated cyls.  The LBT WFN with the longer (relative to a shorter nose in same caliber) nose to crimp measurement can also be difficult to seat.  The WFNs from Cast Performance, as well as some of Leadhead’s bullets seem to be dual diameter – the base will be larger than the portion of the bullet in front of the crimp grove – so no seating problems.  LFNs, and RFNs seem to be less prone to sizing/chambering problems.  Unfortunately, about the only way you are going to figure it out is to actually try different nose profiles, manufacturers and diameters.

Cast Performance makes very good bullets, but they are really pricy.  Leadheads are also decent bullets, but are quite hard, and their shipping methods incr price.   Try Montana Bullet Works http://www.montanabulletworks.com/wst_page6.html  -- With shipping, they aren’t much cheaper than leadheads, but they will size to your needs, and most of their non gas checked bullets are of a “softer” alloy, and they will lube with LBT Blue.

One last thought (probably have more but they have escaped me for the moment).  When I got the .454 cyl back from FA, I tried some MT Bul Wks RCBS 270gr SAA, SIZED .454,  in full length .454 cases, crimped over the front drive band, so I could chamber the rounds.  These bullets weigh between 280 and 290gr with the Mt B Wks alloy.  I loaded them with 7.8gr of HP38.  This load shot into one ragged hole at 25 yards.  These should be close to 950 fps in the 6” FA.  The way they are alloyed, you should be able to run them in the 1,100 to 1,300 fps range with no probs.  If you have a problem with crimping over the front drive band,  you can always trim the cases enough to use the crimp grove.

I haven’t tried the RCBS (82083) 300gr SWC GC in the .454.  I have a bunch on hand, and have shot them in my Model 97 .45 Colt.  I mention this bullet, because, even though it is a SWC, the front drive band isn’t as wide as the 270gr SAA mentioned above.  Sometimes this narrower front drive band gives you more latitude in crimping the bullet so the round will chamber.

Check your throats with a .452 jacketed bullet as mentioned above, and slug your bore.  Cast bullets sized .451 may be on the small size for your gun.  Don’t be like me, I now have over 300 Penn Bullet 340gr CTCs sized .451 and cast very hard, (read hard, undersized bullets) that give me leading problems in the .454 – I need to shoot them up, but just haven’t gotten around to it.  I ordered 500 of those when I thought my throats were .451.

FWIW,

Paul

Offline doghawg

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Re: Cast bullets for the .454
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2007, 02:56:39 PM »
 Thanks for the replies!

 Steve: I've had good luck with Cast Performance bullets also. What diameter are those big 360's?

 Paul105

 I just pulled the cylinders from the .454's and am glad you responded to this question. Both cylinders will allow a .4515"
 Sierra to fall through either front or back and both will let a .452" Hornady pass but with the earlier production gun it's  a very snug fit. I miked the bullets and based on this I'd say one cylinder has .452" throats and the newer one is probably about .4525". So.......based on that, maybe it would be better to hold off on a 500 bullet order of .451's. I'll call Dave at MBW after the dust settles from the holidays and see what he recommends. Thanks.

 In the meantime, any other responses would be welcome.

Offline paul105

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Re: Cast bullets for the .454
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2007, 03:29:13 PM »
Dawg,

I forgot you used Mt Bul Works also.  Marcie will probably kill me for mentioning this, but when I order 500 big bullets, I will always add some 100 count bullets of different styles, diameters to make it up to 50 Lbs (their weight max for one USPS box).  This way, I don't pay freight for small orders, and I get some bullets to test, without having to order 500.

FWIW,

Paul

Offline 454PB

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Re: Cast bullets for the .454
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2008, 07:18:49 AM »
I don't use commercial cast bullets, all mine are home cast. I've also had difficulties with any bullet sized larger than .452". One thing I would suggest is to measure your fired and resized brass to make sure it's within the maximum case length. If it's a touch too long, the crimp can produce a minute bulge and cause chambering problems. The brass must be resized, fired brass lengthens when resized.

The other suggestion for those that use commercial cast bullets is to buy a Lee sizer in .451". If you ordered 500 bullets and found they were too big, you can use the Lee sizer ($15) to size them down.

Offline doghawg

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Re: Cast bullets for the .454
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2008, 12:45:03 PM »
 The Lee .451" sizer is a good idea....hadn't thought of that. Another approach would be to buy a new gun to fit the "too fat" bullets.  ;)

Offline bobthenailer

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Re: Cast bullets for the .454
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2008, 08:21:00 AM »
have 3 454 # 83 they all use bullets sized to 0.452 my most acurrate bullet is the lbt 300 grgc lfn cast from my mould i also have a mountin mould in a 260 grgc lfn but the 300 is hands down more accurate  at 50 yards  usually groups running from 1/2 to 1 inch out of all 3 pistols

Offline doghawg

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Re: Cast bullets for the .454
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2008, 02:01:10 PM »
 Bob

 Do you think that the LBT 300 gr. LFNGC as offered by Montana Bullet Works would be the same bullet as the one you're casting?

Offline EdK

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Re: Cast bullets for the .454
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2008, 09:47:10 AM »
  We slugged the bore, and it is right at .453.

Hmmm.... anybody else ever measure greater than .452"? I have to admit to never slugging the bore on my 454... always assumed .452". FA specs call for .452" bullets... got me thinking now.

Online Lloyd Smale

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Re: Cast bullets for the .454
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2008, 11:14:49 AM »
the 300 rcbs swcgc is an excellent bullet for this situation. Its probably my favorite all time 45 bullet.
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