Author Topic: What would you do? (Read 1947 times)

Leatherstocking · « **on:** December 10, 2007, 01:38:39 PM »

OK - I am at the point where I don't know what to do. I hunt hard. I hunt ethically. I put my time in and if the hunting gods are smiling on me I usually am fortunate to take a deer or two every year. Every deer I have ever shot, I've been "hunting" for. As an example, I froze my butt off the day after Thanksgiving with 23 degrees and winds howling out of the north to shoot a nice 5 pointer. This contrasts with the approach that many "hunters" take, which is to say they drive around the fields and woods in their truck or jeep with the heater on and jump out to shoot a deer when they see it. The local farmer down the road from me (with whom I am good friends with) shot two does adjacent to my property in the last week (one of which he drove out into my field to shoot). I know this a longstanding traditional way to hunt among many guys, but it is really getting me crazy. I don't want to make a big issue of it with this guy (like I said we're friends), but to me it is a totally immoral way to hunt. What do you guys think and what if anything should I do?

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #1 on:** December 10, 2007, 07:44:36 PM »

Unfortunately road hunting works. But the really big bucks are deep in the woods and only move when the roads are clear. NC where I hunt has a big tradition of using packs of dogs and pick ups to deer hunt. Some how the deer and the dogs know 11:45 is when the dogs get in the dog boxes and the hunters head for lunch and plan the afternoon hunt. I just sit quiet and watch as big bucks start to move looking for food or water. Some that I let go by have a surprised look of "it's noon what are you doing here. Your breaking the rules. your out of your truck!"
When the hunters from the local club return for the afternoon hunts and see me hauling out a good buck they start heading into the woods and road hunting stops for a while. the other problem is the amount of deer NC allows. Last year was 6, two had to be antler-less. 2 antlered and two options. If it were a single deer they would actually hunt the deer rather than shoot them.
But if every hunter was only allowed one there would be dead deer everywhere due to over population and not enough food supply.

Mikey · « **Reply #2 on:** December 15, 2007, 01:56:50 AM »

Leatherstocking - hunt the way he hunts. If he drove a doe out onto your property just to get a shot at it then do the same with his property. Before next season call him and let him know that if you see a nice one that is heading into his woods/fields, or something like that, the deer will be yours even if you have to track him across the boundaries. If he doesn't mind, you have just expanded your hunting area. If he objects then you can bring up his past tactics. I only had to do that once...................HTH. Mikey.

Leatherstocking · « **Reply #3 on:** December 15, 2007, 01:18:44 PM »

Hey Mikey, I hear ya' , but the truth is, it's not just this one guy. Lots of folks around me hunt this way. It's just the way it is. I don't mean to sound like am elitist, but to me hunting is hunting. And I realize that in many places cruising around in a vehicle is just the way people hunt (heck, they hunt grouse that way in Maine I hear). As for this individual episode, he didn't drive the deer onto my property - he was just driving by, saw it and drove out into my field to shoot it. Also, this individual doesn't own any land , so your suggestion is not an option. But thanks for the feedback.

Mikey · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:48:56 AM »

Leatherstocking : I understand. I also understand that road hunting may be a way of life for lots of people (low lifes in my book) but I'm not one of them and I certainly do not think you are one either. I have taken mirrors off car doors with rifle shots after road hunters have driven onto my property to get a shot at a whitetail. I do not tolerate that kind of crap. I have shot up cars and trucks that road hunters have used to get onto my property. But, I will let some nurse their shot up vehicle out of my fields just as a lesson.

I don't think road hunting is a traditional way to hunt at all - it is simply lazy and illegal and with new york's understaffed conservation dept. people like your neighbor don't give a crap about what the law has to say. The reason for road hunting is to be able to take what you want, day or night, throw it in the trunk and get the hell outta there before someone sees you hunting (illegally) and calls the cops or Encon. There is no other reason, period. BTW - cops never respond and Encon can't ever respond fast enough. Fortunately, objects such as vehicle windsheilds, doors, rear windows, etc., make for good sized targets. Mirrors are more fun though..............

You say he is a good friend, yet this seems to bother you quite a bit (it would bother me a lot more). Possibly if you mentioned how much this bothers you to your good friend, his response might tell you how much of a friend he really is and whether you may wish to block his access to your fields. You say he is a farmer but he doesn't own any land - I would let him know how much this whizzes me off and that he isn't welcomed any more. If he is/was truyly a friend he will stop. If not, there is always the law............... Mikey.

Hunter_Smurf · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2008, 05:22:05 PM »

FIRST OF LET ME SAY YOU HAVE TO BE TRUE TO NO ONE BUT YOURSELF..

if you are not comfortable with his ways let him now.. if he is a true friend he will respect it and not do it around you.. if not then he isnt as good of a friend as you thought...

I don't believe the do as he does responce you got.. 2 wrongs dont make it right.. old saying but true.

keep your respect and honor above them around you ( road hunters ) and you will always sleep good at night..

i have lost a few hunting partners including family because of ethics and morals... but i know when i eat my deer i got it leagaly and ethicly... no tire tread on my meat... lol just my thoughts....

bkraft · « **Reply #6 on:** August 18, 2008, 05:40:22 AM »

It's like I tell my kid, "ya gotta do what YOU can live with." Remember you're the guy that answers to that fellow in the mirror when you shave in the morning. There have been several winters that I'm buyin' burger at Dillon's cause I couldn't harvest a deer or what ever "my" way and I'm good with that. You have to do what you are comfortable with.

BBF · « **Reply #7 on:** August 18, 2008, 07:05:56 AM »

The problem with ethics are that not everybody is on the same page.
Take the primitive archer, he doesn't use a machine to hunt with all the bells and whistles hanging off it. Both probably get uptight seeing someone with a Crossbow in their season.
The muzzleloader that uses a side lock,BP and open sights thinks he might be more ethical then the guy with a tricked out in-line during ML season.

The road hunters will seldom get the thropy buck. Keep in mind not all of us are in the physical condition you might be in.
For myself if given the choice I would rather take a doe or cow anytime.

Leatherstocking · « **Reply #8 on:** August 18, 2008, 02:30:48 PM »

I had forgotten about this thread. Thanks for reviving it. Hey, I am not trying to preach ethics to anyone. People can do what they want. And I don't begrudge anyone for hunting however they want as long as it's within the law and whatever a person considers fair chase. But don't come on my land and pop a doe from the truck just because I am not there and you can get away with it. This guy would not have done it if he knew I was there (because he knows it's wrong). I forgot to mention that what made this even worse in my mind is that he had a youngster with him so now there is another young hunter coming up through that thinks this is OK.

ironglow · « **Reply #9 on:** November 10, 2008, 09:33:41 AM »

I think Smurf gave you some good advice. Although you an I may not like it, as long as he didn't break the law, there isn't much you can do outside of just letting him know what you think of his methods. He can legally hunt that way so long as he doesn't shoot from or leaning upon the vehicle.
I have some prime hunting land..esp for deer. I don't post the whole thing, just where the land borders the road..I don't like "road rangers" either.
I have a situation where a slob hunter has placed a tree stand withing a few feet of my back fenceline...and baited it with a couple bushels of corn. I took the game warden to my woods about a week ago...he will be back, probably opening day. The slob hunter not only is doing an illegal thing, but he has put my woods (within 300 yards) off-limits for my own hunting..illegal to hunt within 300 yards of an illegal bait situation.
I didn't become a hunter safety instructor just to do something I teach against !

bubba · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2008, 02:22:11 PM »

correct me if I am wrong but isnt carrying a loaded firearm in a vehicle illegal? Isnt shooting from a motor vehicle against the law also? But then again so is shooting mirrors off vehicles. Where I hunt and live if people drive out into a field and discharge a firearm where they are not supposed to be, I call the law and give them a description of the vehicle license plate number time and date of the incident and description of the person or persons involved. This has absolutely nothing to do with ethics, it has to do with legalities simple as that. Oh yeah I will sign a complaint and go to court to testify if need be.

Hunter_Smurf · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2008, 06:11:03 PM »

i assumed he ment they drove to the field .. saw the deer . then got out loaded the gun and shot them..

yes if they are driving and shooting from the truck then by all means yes it is a legal situation and far more than ethics.. and something legal should be done.. if it was the other way as i assumed it was then it is more of a ethic/moral situations..

i too would sign as a witness...

however about 8 -10 years back my brother was about 30 yards from a doe on state land when someone from a house adjacent to it shot from thier house window and killed it.. we had no doe season then... he called the DEC and procedded to press charges and the guy was out hunting the following year with a $50-$100 fine..

he shot across a public road
he shot a doe with no season/tag
he shot from his house (not sure if thats illegal or not but still,, come on...)
shot wildly into state land not knowing who was in the area.. 30 yards passed the doe was my brother

i don't think the law has gotten any tougher since then but i would still try to keep illegal hunters out of the woods....

hunting laws arent inforced enough i don't believe...
but this isnt the topic...lol

ironglow · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2008, 10:28:30 PM »

Bubba;
I thought I made those points clear in my second sentence in the post just above yours. Sure shootring from or off a vehicle is illegal, as well as carrying a loaded gun in/on the vehicle. Realistically, in reporting them for any of those infractions becomes a he said/he said situation. The one that can be successfully prosecuted is the one where the LEO can catch them in the act. Unless the perpetrator makes a habit of going to the same meadow and shooting at deer regularly, the thinly distributed game officers obviously can't take time out to watch one guy, hoping to catch him doing something illegal.
If such were the case, the really cagy perps would have the only game officer for perhaps 20 sq miles watching for a fictional law breaker while they amused their hunting fancies & violations elsewhere.

bubba · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2008, 11:31:25 AM »

well where I am from, when I teach my sportsman education classes, the ECO tell the students that most of their successful prosecutions are from people filing a complaint and following up in court, not from what they see as the one in my area covers approximately 900 square miles. Yes it is friustrating, but if we do not do our part, then nothing will ever happen. Regardless of whether they drive in the field and shoot form the vehicle or ge tout, they are still tresspassing unless they have permission and I sure as hell know I would no tgive anyone permission that would kill that way because you certainly can not call it hunting. As stated unless we do something, nothing will happen.

ironglow · « **Reply #14 on:** November 19, 2008, 01:30:31 PM »

I can agree with your frustration and know where it comes from. I no longer "tolerate" illegal practices and will report them. I wonder if a video would help in a conviction? With althe phone video cams etc..especially if the videographer has one or more witnesses while he records the illegal action..hmmm
Seems like the video producer could record a god pic of the perp , the action , his vehicle w/ license plate etc and just turn it over to authorities, complete with witnesses names etc...

Leatherstocking · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2008, 02:35:39 PM »

Smurf had it. As far as I know they drove into our field, then loaded and shot the deer. Don't know because I wasn't there. He told me about it some time later. I never intended this thread to be about legality. As far as I know what he did was legal. For me it was just the ethical question of how the deer was harvested (ie. not a legitimate "hunt" in my opinion). It only pissed me off because he did it on my property. Here at home in Dutchess County we are infested with deer and I can shoot deer all day off my deck if I wanted to, but I don't. I have been asked whether I would shoot a 10 pointer off my deck. I wouldn't, because if I shot a 10 pointer, I would want to have it mounted. Would I want to mount one I shot in that manner? Heck no. Wouldn't enjoy looking at it. Anyway, that was my dilemna about this particular situation. Not a legal question - just what is ethical and whether I should approach him.

For the record, before the current deer season began, I took the approach of some friendly needling to let him know I was not happy with what transpired last year. Hopefully it will not happen again. But then again, I am not there all the time and he is, so I may never know.

bubba · « **Reply #16 on:** November 21, 2008, 01:54:24 AM »

friendly needling? point blank tell the guy to stay off your land with his truck. If you wont take the bull by the horns the horns will get you. I guess I assumed too much. Where I live if I were to drive out into a field where I did not have permission I would be met by the less than pleased land owner and told to stay out. And if I were to drive into a field where a deer was I would not expect the deer to stand there long enough to get out load my gun, take aim and fire. I would bet the legalities of what was going on are questionable at best. But if you will not confront it, it will continue. No offense but time to grow a pair and get to the bottom of it and put an end to it.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2008, 02:08:36 AM »

each hunter has to decide how they wish to hunt . As long as they remain with in the law others should mind their own business . If you don't care for a style of hunting to take place on your land then don't allow it . It seems you want everyone to think like you and they will not . you want to set limitations on yourself that others don't wish to have placed on them . You need to hunt in a way that fulfilles your need and allow others the same freedoms . what you do on a hunt is how your success is mesured not what others do . If your buddy rides around all day and gets no deer do you feel your hunt was not fulfilling for you ? or did you enjoy the effort you expended ? Be your own man if you compare your self to others you will never be better than them !

Leatherstocking · « **Reply #18 on:** November 21, 2008, 12:40:05 PM »

I don't want or expect others to think or act or hunt like me. I have several friends who hunt (legitimately hunt) on my property. My only beef was the way the guy shot the deer on my land. He does have permission to "hunt" on my property. I have no problem if he shoots a deer while "hunting" on my property.

I dealt with this same attitude with my own cousin a few years ago. He shot deer from the tractor, from his truck, etc. There were even times when I was sitting out there freezing my butt off only to have him drive out into the field. He doesn't hunt with us any more. Although when I am not there, he probably cruises the field now and then. Not much I can do about what I don't know.

As for the friendly needling, Bubba - I agree. That is a first step. If that doesn't get the message across I will become more blunt.

However, everyone needs to bear in mind that in this situation hunting is only part of the relationship. The individual also farms our land and generally watches out for the property when we are not there. We get along very well, and I don't want to jeapordize a good friendship over something as trivial as this. Life is too short.

bubba · « **Reply #19 on:** November 21, 2008, 04:56:58 PM »

if he was a true friend he would respect your wishes and not do it anymore if you came out and asked him not to. If he doesn't then he was not worth having around anyway.

oldhunter · « **Reply #20 on:** November 25, 2008, 02:59:28 AM »

I found this discussion to be interesting as I also own land that is posted and on occasion have discovered "lost" hunters that have mingled with those that have my permission to hunt on the property. Most of the violators were embarrassed and told that all they had to do was ask and permission may have been granted. Fortunately, I am not aware of any vehicles being used to take deer.

What I find as shocking was the comment made by one of the Moderators on 12/10/07. He bragged about shooting mirrors on cars and trucks as well as putting holes in the vehicles of road hunters. This admittance of a felony is what most of us often have to deal with when trying to promote shooting sports. I only hope that this person took the time to check each vehicle to determine if it was empty or if perhaps a child was sleeping on one of the seats before he took the law into his own hands. Stupid!

oldhunter

S.E.Ak · « **Reply #21 on:** November 25, 2008, 03:46:41 AM »

In Texas its legal to use your truck as a deer blind and hunt from it.If a person is not breaking the law we need to support their efforts even if its not our hunting style.Many folks have no use for black guns but if we let the goverment take those then what is the next to be taken.There is no more fox and hound in England and I'm sure no more fox will be next.