Author Topic: Underwhelmed With Selection of New Shotguns (Read 2497 times)

chucky52 · « **on:** November 06, 2007, 03:49:28 PM »

After splitting the stock in my AL390, I've looked at new guns and I'm disappointed. The mainstream companies seem to be Remington, Ruger, Browning, Beretta. Remington's new products do not appeal to me, I grew up on their older products. No more Beretta's after splitting a buttstock on a 7 year old gun. Browning is offering up the Cynergy with the tried, true and heavy traditional guns; but, way pricey. Ruger, I'm luke warm about. I own two shotguns, a 7 year old AL390 and a 37 year old Wingmaster. Not sure I can improve on what used to be. The radical changes and priciness have turned me off. I really expected to be impressed. Guess I can look at used guns, I seem to like the not too old, not too new and not too expensive. If I spent the money for a pricey new shotgun, I wouldn't feel like I got what I paid for. Just my impression of the new gun market. Beretta warrants my wood for 1 year, guess I'll fix it out of my pocket and keep using it.

Questor · « **Reply #1 on:** November 07, 2007, 04:27:52 AM »

I'm not surprised you're disappointed. The AL390 is widely considered to be one of the best repeaters ever made. Raise your budget to about $2500 and you should start seeing some nice over/unders and some decent used side-by-sides. There aren't any better autos or pumps than what you have now. It would be interesting to know what your criteria are because I find that today's market is better than ever, by far. For example, I don't exactly pine for the bygone days of fixed chokes and hatchet-like stock designs.

dukkillr · « **Reply #2 on:** November 07, 2007, 05:28:28 AM »

If you expect quality at Wal-Mart prices you'll continue to be disappointed. If you spend a bit more and buy a BPS you'll never be disappointed. You'll have a gun you can be proud to own, proud to pass on, and that will work forever.

Leave the cheap guns alone and spend a bit more. You'll find that quality is worth the extra money.

Questor · « **Reply #3 on:** November 07, 2007, 05:51:40 AM »

dukkillr:

You are right about being proud to pass on a BPS. I just gave my old 12 gauge BPS to my son to use now that he's grown out of the youth gun. He's left-handed and the bottom ejection and tang safety are especially worthwhile to him. You're right. It is a quality and I'm glad he's got a good gun to use.

chucky52 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 07, 2007, 10:56:44 AM »

I think you've made my point: "...no better auto than what you had." Raise my price for better doubles??? Did I say I was looking within a price limit? Ok, when I bought the AL390, I got quality (except for the split stock) for $529 and there is no better auto? So, quality came in the, let's say the $600 range. Adjusting for inflation will not get you close to $2,000. I hunt pheasant and turkey both of which require a lot of walking so an 8 pounder is out of the question. I looked pretty thoroughly and don't really want to drop $2,000 to$2,500 plus tax for any of the current doubles. The only thing that impresses me as different from the same old thing is the Cynergy. Again, is it that much better? It feels good, it's different. In fact, it's really the only different shotgun out for how many years? Since the development of the O/U?

Cynergy is the only different shotgun I saw and I think the jury is still out on it. I used to hunt quail over dogs with an SKB who has discontinued. Wish I could get my hands on a quality used one. Winchester is gone and to be honest, one of the finest shotguns I know of is the model 23. Good luck finding one! The model 23 was discontinued in 1987. Except for Cynergy, Browning is about the same, Beretta-same story. I'm glad I have an older Wingmaster, Remington is pretty much unappealing, now. Can't tell that anything is different with Ruger. There are the foreign guns which may come along in quality. I hear a lot about CZ including the service is poor from CZ-USA. At this point, the big draw with the Turkish guns is the price, $1,000 will get you anything you want.

Again I think my point has been made; but, I'm open minded, what models made you guys think new shotguns are so great? Remember, upper price range not excluded.

35Rem · « **Reply #5 on:** November 07, 2007, 11:12:26 AM »

Benelli autos? They are pretty light, some of the lightest. And supposed to be dead reliable.

I don't have one, but it's what I hear. Also, the design isn't exactly ages old, and definately different than all the others.

chucky52 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 07, 2007, 11:18:34 AM »

Guess I got doubles in mind. I have a Beretta 390. Reliable except for wood that split like kindling. Another thing I noticed, a lot of stores are only carrying cheap guns. Probably the ones that sell in volume.

Questor · « **Reply #7 on:** November 07, 2007, 03:50:14 PM »

Chucky52:

I think you should get that Cynergy. There are some good deals to be had. The jury is no longer out on it. It's a perfectly excellent shotgun, with styling appealing more to the younger shooter (i.e., 40 and under or guys like me who are older than that but still like it). It's got a very fast lock time, which some say is an excellent feature for target shooting. The clarification I would add to the consensus about your Beretta is that it is widely regarded as one of the best repeaters OF ALL TIME. You can't reach back into history and find something better overall.

Let us know how you like that new Cynergy when you finally break down and get it.

Questor · « **Reply #8 on:** November 07, 2007, 03:54:41 PM »

By the way, Chucky, I take it you're a pretty young guy or a relatively new shooter. The guns that were generally available to the average budget in the 1950s and 1960s were utterly horrible when compared to today's guns. A few were good, and those are the sentimental favorites that endure in the minds of nostalgia buffs. Fact is, we are blessed today with the best guns ever, and the best selection too.

chucky52 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 07, 2007, 04:56:40 PM »

I'm 55. Got a 20 ga Mossberg when I was 12, traded up to the Wingmaster 12 ga. when I was 18 and still use it for backup like when the Beretta splintered. They made 6,000,000 seems a popular shotgun. Picked up an SKB 20 s x s for quail over dogs and sold it when kids came along. Picked up a Citori before screw in chokes and traded it when screw in chokes came out (innovation). I'm of the opinion that a gun should outlast me and most of mine will, even my plastic Glock and XD. I picked up the AL390 and I was happy until the stock shuked itself with dove loads. I don't shop Walmart as some have suggested. None of my previously owned guns after the Mossberg and Wingmaster would be considered cheap. Everybody seems to think I'm cheap, my point is there has not been much innovation except in pricing shotguns. The only thing I have found different is Cynergy and Benelli. I don't need a Benelli with an AL 390 and not everyone I know likes them. Further, I am distraught that SKB and Winchester and others are simply gone.

I know original quality and modern quality, also lack of it. Not new to shooting, loading, hunting, dogs...

Innovation: look where Glock and Springfield have taken semi-auto pistols.

Gee a biography after being accused of being cheap, young and shopping at Walmart?? If I drop $2500, it will not be for the same old stuff with a higher price tag.

Questor · « **Reply #10 on:** November 07, 2007, 06:51:50 PM »

I'm seeing a lot of innovation in the O/Us especially. And shotguns in general. One of the chief innovations is that CNC equipment has revolutionized gun manufacture and made it possible for one company to have a very broad line of the same essential type of firearm, like Citoris, 525s, and the related Winchester Selects.

I think the expectation that a gun should outlive its owner came from people who don't shoot much. I expect repairs occasionally. Just today I paid a $230 gunsmithing bill for replacing the guts of a 1911 that I had worn out. Now it'll be good for another 8 years or so, after which I'll be happy to have the some more work done to it. After all that use, I'm not complaining about how crappy Kimber Gold Match pistols are. I'm just happy I got so much use out of it so far.

Brithunter · « **Reply #11 on:** November 07, 2007, 11:32:20 PM »

Quote from: Questor on November 07, 2007, 06:51:50 PM

I'm seeing a lot of innovation in the O/Us especially. And shotguns in general. One of the chief innovations is that CNC equipment has revolutionized gun manufacture and made it possible for one company to have a very broad line of the same essential type of firearm, like Citoris, 525s, and the related Winchester Selects.

I think the expectation that a gun should outlive its owner came from people who don't shoot much. I expect repairs occasionally. Just today I paid a $230 gunsmithing bill for replacing the guts of a 1911 that I had worn out. Now it'll be good for another 8 years or so, after which I'll be happy to have the some more work done to it. After all that use, I'm not complaining about how crappy Kimber Gold Match pistols are. I'm just happy I got so much use out of it so far.

Ahhh how I like a good laugh

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By the way, Chucky, I take it you're a pretty young guy or a relatively new shooter. The guns that were generally available to the average budget in the 1950s and 1960s were utterly horrible when compared to today's guns. A few were good, and those are the sentimental favorites that endure in the minds of nostalgia buffs. Fact is, we are blessed today with the best guns ever, and the best selection too.

Now of my shotguns are new, I suppose the newest is the Baikel Mdl 27 O/U in 12 bore with SST but even that is about 20 years old now, it did a little smith job as the enertia block came loose and blocked the lever

oh well it was not expensive to get done. I also had the action tightened up on a SxS Boxlock Non ejector when I brought it about 10 years ago. The gun was made prior to WW1 in about 1909 at some time it had replacement barrels made an fitted as the original were worn out or damaged. A friend of mine before falling ill shot pheasent with an 1880's E.J. Churchill Live Pigeon gun. These guns were made to shoot and shoot often with several hundred cartridges being shot in a day I am sorry but the majority of new guns are a big turn off for me.

In fact i just brought another 12 bore, my first semi auto

and it was made in 1954, it's an FN browning Auto Five. I am currently waiting for ti to come back from the smiths as Ih ave had the recoil system serviced and it adapted to only hold two cartridges in the magazine which makes licensing easier.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #12 on:** November 08, 2007, 01:24:24 AM »

Chuck---Winchester and SKB O/U's are still available-----in this area at least.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #13 on:** November 08, 2007, 01:42:17 AM »

check out the SKB for o/u and the win. superx2 for auto , 870 still king of pumps !
took a benelli and a SX2 to Canada hunting started off with the benelli after 2 days it was a jamamatic switched to the SX2 and had no problems next 4 trips i carried 2 SX2's . a friend also had a benelli fail up there ! yes the SX2 is a close copy of the browning gold , just a bit faster !

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #14 on:** November 08, 2007, 02:53:58 AM »

I'm not much of a shotgun man, I do most hunting/shooting with rifles. But when you need a shotgun, you need a shotgun! I've had 870's and a 1100, as well as Savage combinations, with a few single shots thrown in. I have to agree that today's shotguns are the best ever, but will probably never own one since I'm not willing to throw a lot of money into a gun which will not do the job any better or more reliably than something I already own. Unless one of the new guns comes my way used at a very good price, or some "need" comes up, I don't see ever me owning one.

lil_hunter12 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 08, 2007, 10:23:57 AM »

i am gonna recommend a mossberg 500 or 835 have had both currently shoot a maverick and love it. i cant find a more reliable gun anywhere i use it for everything deer down to squirrels. and i have never had a problem I've used it for the last 7 or 8 years. mossberg is good cheap and from my experience reliable.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #16 on:** November 08, 2007, 10:54:58 AM »

I have a Benelli Super Black Eagle. You can pick up a good used one for around $600 at a gun show. Will handle everything from 2-3/4" to 3-1/2". Reliable, light weight, easy to clean. Kicks harder than a standard gas auto, but I put on a Limbsaver recoil pad, which helped. Clean and oil it good and you can shoot the lightest loads. I think it is the best shotgun value on the market period. They only make the SBE II now which is more expensive.

chucky52 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 29, 2007, 08:17:39 AM »

Great news: after looking at all the new stuff, I have picked up a beautiful Beretta o/u (for me) and an 870 youth (for the wife). Both in very good condition and, best of all: I'm only out $800 for the two guns. Now why would anyone want to pay $2,000 for one of these fine new shotguns. Bonus: got the AL390 stock repaired for $100.

My new motto: take a backup!

Questor · « **Reply #18 on:** November 29, 2007, 01:54:23 PM »

Chucky52:

Excellent! That seems like an excellent deal. Are there any more of those Berettas at that price? What kind did you get?

Now the only problem you've got is deciding which of your first rate guns to use.

My field gun is a 20 gauge Beretta and it's so good that I don't have an interest in other field guns. It's been superb. I'm sure yours will be too.

Swampman · « **Reply #19 on:** November 29, 2007, 02:48:26 PM »

I can see no point in buying anything other than an Remington 870 at Walmart. It can't be beat at any price.

chucky52 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 29, 2007, 03:26:54 PM »

I'm told the Beretta is an onyx. It's in near pristine condition, one owner and his wife gave up on clays so the youth 870 got worked in. I'm happy and I wasn't happy looking at new guns with new prices. I can afford it; I just can't justify it. It takes time; but, good used shotguns are available at reasonable prices.

chucky52 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 29, 2007, 03:31:42 PM »

I have a 37 year old, one owner Wingmaster. I wish it had a vent rib and chokes, it doesn't. It is unquestionably a great gun and I will not part with it; however, I just got tired of shucking empties. It was fine till I got old.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #22 on:** November 30, 2007, 01:28:35 AM »

I spent over 2 grand on each of my Beretta's with the intention of keeping them for a lifetime----that's why I spent that much.

You can update your old 870 for less than $200 with a new barrel--it will have a vent rib---chokes---and be able to shoot steel shot.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** November 30, 2007, 02:03:11 AM »

some are satisfied with off shelf goods that are the same as thousands of others and that's fine !
then a few strive to accumulate the best they can afford ! they include pride in owing an example of craftsman ship above owning a product spit out by the millions !
no doubt an 870 will do most if not all that shot guns are called on to do and in some cases they set the standard for sure !
but i have not seen an 870 that comes from WM that even approaches the pride in ownership as say a Parker , browning high grade or any of the finer guns of today or yesteryear !
I own and like 870's myself so i have no axe to grinde !
to some a gun is a tool to others its a work of art with practical application !

Questor · « **Reply #24 on:** November 30, 2007, 03:34:36 AM »

Swampman:

Regarding the relative value of the 870 and other pump guns: Been there, done that, ain't goin back. O/U's and autos rule!

Questor · « **Reply #25 on:** November 30, 2007, 03:40:07 AM »

....of course if the 870 meets your needs and desires fully, then it WOULD be rather foolish to pay more.

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** November 30, 2007, 08:15:51 AM »

The main reason I love the 870 is that it eats anything, and it goes off every time. Most everything else I've tried (and seen tried)didn't. Meat in the pot is pride enough for me. I'll take a working class gun any day and be proud to eat the fare it constantly (and unfailingly) provides.

Autos are ok for people that can buy meat at a market. Over & Unders are for people that should be playing golf;(

Questor · « **Reply #27 on:** November 30, 2007, 08:23:41 AM »

That's a sensible characterization. I agree with the O/U comment, except that golf is way more expensive than shooting and hunting. At least the way I do it. More to the point, though is that having an O/U is not strictly a necessity and falls well into the luxury category. It's a good luxury.

Autos I must say, I never liked them until recently. But after shooting some I find them very agreeable. The auto feature is really nice for games like skeet, and the reduced recoil is a great selling feature. Best of all is the good ergonomics. I really liked shooting the Remington 11-87 and found it to be a tremendous value for those inclined to shoot an auto. It fits just about perfectly.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #28 on:** November 30, 2007, 09:49:40 AM »

gee whiz , golf gun !
gee never heard of a dangerous game pump gun !
gee the o/u not as reliable as a pump ?
never mind its not worth dealing with a wal-mart mentality !

Swampman · « **Reply #29 on:** November 30, 2007, 10:05:33 AM »

It's not worth paying MSRP prices for the exact same product else where. The Walmart 870 will get er done. When every shot counts you can rely on a Remington, Mossberg, or Winchester pump. Cheap is actually better (more reliable)in this instance.