Author Topic: Bad accuracy in a 22 Hornet H&R (Read 5648 times)

JohnnySweden · « **on:** October 21, 2007, 08:30:35 AM »

I have a 22 Hornet H&R Topper 58 but I cant get it to shoot good.

Accuracy is about 3-4 inch at 90 yards with 3 shots.

I cant see any pattern in how it hits.

It shoots just as bad with factory ammo as with reloaded.

My reloaded rounds are 8.00 grains Vihtavuori N110 behind a 45 grains Sierra bullet in Winchester cases primed by Winchester Small Rifle primers.

Scope is a brand new Leupold VX-I 2-7x33 that works well on other rifles, mounts are Lynx steel for Weaver, using original Weaverbase.

Please help me out on this one, can it be the fore end flexing..?

Thanks

rbergum95 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 21, 2007, 08:52:23 AM »

check the FAQ's for accuracy hints and try some different handloads, im sure you can find something to work.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** October 21, 2007, 11:30:09 AM »

It's possible your older H&R M58 is made for .223" bullets instead of the current .224" size, wouldn't hurt to try some of those in your handloads. My NEF Handi shoots the 35gr Vmax with 12.5gr Hodgdon Lil'gun in Winchester brass very accurately.

Tim

http://www.midwaynorge.com/apps/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?SaleItemID=600364

http://www.midwaynorge.com/apps/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?SaleItemID=163371

http://www.midwaynorge.com/apps/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?SaleItemID=666171

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #3 on:** October 21, 2007, 11:56:07 AM »

My rifle have serial no AU486XXX, is that old enough for the 223? - I have only tried different 224.

Hodgdon Lil'gun is not imported to Sweden, we only have Vihtavuori N110 and (discontinued) Norma 123.

Hornets are very rare here, due to shortage of suitable powder and very expensive factory ammo, about $1.00 - $3.50/each.

Even brass are rare but can be imported from the US, Norma doesn't make Hornet brass any longer - I try to use Winchester or RWS, the S&B doesn´t hold up to reload, old NOS Norma (if found) demand premium cost. Ten new Winchesters or RWS are $3.20, ten new Normas about $7.50 (if found).

About 2 lbs (1 kg) powder is $57 here, good for 1700 shots, bullets (SAKO) are $14 at 100.

Anyway, the Hornets are very economical compared to other centerfires, even a 50 rnd box of 22 rimfire are $4.30 theise days (CCI Standard).

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** October 21, 2007, 12:09:05 PM »

Your M58 was made in 1980, dunno if that's old enough, but if you can get the bullets, I'd give em a try since you've had no luck with the .224" bullets. Hornets are generally one of the more accurate Handi chamberings.

Tim

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #5 on:** October 21, 2007, 12:15:49 PM »

I have also heard that the Hornets are supposed to be very accurate, that's why I find it frustrating that I cant get this rifle to shoot straight.

Now I have read the Handi basics and I will try shooting it without the fore end and/or hold the rife as far back as possible with my left hand to see if this improve accuracy.

Thank you all for your input.

Ireload2 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2007, 02:22:03 PM »

The NRA tested an H&R .22 Jet in the mid 1960s. It shot horrible groups but got a little better when they polished the bore with Brobst Bore Paste. I have also seen an older H&R barrel that had a tapered bore. The rifling was ok at the breech but about 6 inches from the muzzle the rifling disappeared.
Polishing your bore might improve the precision.
Be sure you are using the stubby little round nose bullets made specifically for the Hornet. The long spitzer bullets may not stabilize if you have 16" twist rifling.
I have pulled the bullets from . 22 WMR (rim fire magnum) ammo and substituted the Sierra 45 grain Hornet bullets and got much improved accuracy.
You might try seating them long against the rifling too.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 21, 2007, 02:29:47 PM »

I would really like to see you use some different powder. N110 is not the best choice in a Hornet. If that is the only powder you can get a hold of that is suitable for your Hornet, then try this; 45 grain bullet - starting load of N110 - 8.2 grains work up to 9.0 grains in .2 grain increments. This is in Winchester brass and using a SMALL PISTOL primer. If you only have small rifle primers, drop the starting load by 10% and work your way up in .2 grain increments, but do not exceed 8.2 grains. If you can not find at least a decent load (under 1.5 MOA) after that; you probably have a problem with the gun. I got the above information out of the Speer Manual #14. Good Luck to You

BTW I have found that N133 shoots great out of all my 223 Remington rifles with the exception of my H&R 223 Ultra. I am going to experiment with some slower burning powders there, but have not a chance to yet.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2007, 04:32:18 PM »

Thats too bad they don't have Lil Gun available in Sweden. Also get a Lee factory crimp die that helped my accuracy quite a bit. I think the Little thin hornet cases don't grip the bullet very tightly.

GatCat · « **Reply #9 on:** October 21, 2007, 09:34:12 PM »

Be sure to check your muzzle for nicks and dings; if any, maybe re-crown it. Also, I will be sending you a pm in the interest of international relations!! I'm a hornet fan, and my son and I enjoy Swedish Mausers, so maybe I can send you some brass, or other non-controlled "goodies".
Mark

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2007, 09:58:03 PM »

Quote

Also get a Lee factory crimp die

I have bought one of those....but to he honest I don't know exactly how to use it.

I reload using a Classic Lee Loader.

Thank you all guys for your valuble opinions.

LHitchcox · « **Reply #11 on:** October 22, 2007, 02:10:23 AM »

Have you fired the gun with the forearm off by resting the receiver on the front rest? This will identify bedding problems. If your groups improve, then free float the barrel or try the rubber o ring around the forearm stud. sometimes changing the pressure of the forearm screw can change group size.

Leon

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2007, 03:24:07 AM »

The Lee FCD has to be used in a standard press, won't work with the Lee Loader.

Tim

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2007, 06:10:19 AM »

Quote

Have you fired the gun with the forearm off by resting the receiver on the front rest? This will identify bedding problems. If your groups improve, then free float the barrel or try the rubber o ring around the forearm stud. sometimes changing the pressure of the forearm screw can change group size.

I think this is a very good advice and I will try this next time on the range.

Its really a simple gun, I thought not much could go wrong with it...

aulrich · « **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2007, 11:49:06 AM »

Simple, yes, most of the time, but not always. I see you found the FAQ thats good, some guys don't get past the little quirks of shooting a handi.

What powder brands do you have good access, I have not had my hornet long and have only used lil'gun, I have read of good results with winchester 296.

What will be the usage of your hornet, targets and or hunting?

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2007, 07:39:04 PM »

The only powder I can get is Vihtavuori, the US powders are not imported here and they are very difficult (expensive) to import as a private person.

I will use it for recreational shooting, some target shooting just for fun and hunting geese, fox, hare and badgers.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** October 22, 2007, 07:52:35 PM »

You might try N120 instead.

Tim

http://www.vihtavuori-lapua.com/pdfs/Reloading-Guide.pdf

aulrich · « **Reply #17 on:** October 23, 2007, 05:07:07 AM »

I fell in love with my hornet while jackrabbit hunting last year, it is perfectly suited to the task enough range to be useful but not too much power that there is nothing left to eat. Just for reference a jackrabbit where I was hunting them is almost the size of a red fox, how big are your hare's.

As stated above I would try small pistol primers as well,that's all I have ever used.

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #18 on:** October 23, 2007, 08:34:05 AM »

But the 120 leave more residue in the barrel since it burns slower...?

The hares are about 10 lbs, pretty big...

We don't eat them, its just pest control.

I will try Pistol Primers, different primers are inexpensive and quite easy to find.

Any more ideas...?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2007, 08:46:35 AM »

I've never worried about what the bore looks like after the shot, just what the target looks like, that's what counts!!

Tim

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 23, 2007, 09:34:45 AM »

I agree with Tim. I worry about down range accuracy not how dirty it is. I have heard complaints that Lil'gun is dirty, but I have found it no different than any other powder used. I only worry about burning of the powder when it leaves unburnt granules in the bore. I have gotten that from time to time with 2400. You may find the N120 more suitable for your Hornet. It will take a little more, but not a lot more powder. if you do not get satisfactory results with the N110, there is another option to try.

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #21 on:** October 24, 2007, 11:21:51 AM »

I have not tried the 120 myself but I have heard other owners having problems with just unburnt granules in the bore.

Now I have made three sets of loads using 9.00 grains VV150, one with 40 gn Sierra, one with 45 grains Sako and one with 45 gn Sierra HP.

Within a week or so I hope to get access to a range in order to try it out again.

Then my first priority will be to shoot the rifle without its fore end, I presume the fore end is the root to all my problems since the rifle shoots very bad with different factory loads too.

I really want this rifle shooting good, since its a very nice and cool rifle that I'm very fond of...

billy_56081 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 24, 2007, 12:32:21 PM »

If you do have a problem barrel would it be possible to by a barrel on here and have it shipped Internationally? I hate to see a fellow Handiholic left with a poor barrel just because of an International border. Especially since it is a 22 hornet, my personal favorite catridge. Good luck I hope you get its shooting.

GrampaMike · « **Reply #23 on:** October 24, 2007, 03:24:34 PM »

JohnnySweden

I have 2 loads using the Sierra 45 gr. Hornet (.224 #1210) bullet that work great in my Handi 22 Hornets. Both loads give me less than 1” groups at 75 yards. They work in my 20” 22 Hornet but NOT in my 22” 22 Hornet. How long is the barrel on the Topper 58?

Cases trimed to 1.393”.

1st 10.3 gr. Hodgdon LilGun; C.O.L. 1.711”; 2529 fps.
2nd 9.4 gr. Vihtavuori N110; C.O.L. 1.715”; 2464 fps.

Mike

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #24 on:** October 24, 2007, 07:49:32 PM »

Quote

If you do have a problem barrel would it be possible to by a barrel on here and have it shipped Internationally

They are close to impossible to import from without EU but I can always get a gunsmith to install a German one from within EU, like a Lothar-Walther one, they are fairly inexpensive and easy to get (but they will cost a little to have installed.

Quote

Good luck I hope you get its shooting.

Thank you, I put my faith in the fore end right now and hope this is the problem since its shooting bad with factory loads too.
A problem with the fore end should be quite easy to fix (I hope).

Quote

How long is the barrel on the Topper 58?

The barrel is 23 inch long, how much can my longer barrel effect accuracy?
How do I compose a suitable load for a longer barrel, more power, less powder, trimmed cases or what..?
What makes a load work good in a short barrel or what makes them work good in a long barrel..?

Your receipt seems very interesting since I too use VV 110 and 45 grains .224 Sierra bullets (en Win brass with Win Sm Rifle primers).
I have not trimmed my cases, I wonder how much that matters..?

Quote

Both loads give me less than 1” groups at 75 yards.

That kind of accuracy would make me more then happy for everything I intend do use my Handi.

Once again, thank you all gentlemen for you valuable input, there is nothing like this great forum here in Sweden.

Fred M · « **Reply #25 on:** October 24, 2007, 08:22:15 PM »

Johnny.
If you feel up to it you can try and accurize your Hand as per my instructions.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ZERMEL/accuhandi.html

Both my Handi's are accurized like that and both shoot sub MOA.

If you have any question you can send me an e-mail.

zermel@shaw.ca

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #26 on:** October 25, 2007, 04:05:22 AM »

Isn't it ironic that all you can get is Vihtavouri and I know some guys here that shoot bench competition who are having trouble getting VV because of short supplies and that VV won't ship to US until they get a full boat load order. Kurt

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #27 on:** October 25, 2007, 08:29:49 AM »

Fred M: Thank you for your excellent link, I think that one can be very useful in the future.

Quote

Isn't it ironic that all you can get is Vihtavouri and I know some guys here that shoot bench competition who are having trouble getting VV because of short supplies and that VV won't ship to US until they get a full boat load order. Kurt

And they call it a global world, yeah right...

shooting.al · « **Reply #28 on:** October 27, 2007, 11:29:18 AM »

What kind of scope do you have? Maybe its causing some problems?

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #29 on:** October 28, 2007, 09:28:13 AM »

I use a brand new Leupold VX-I 3-9x33 in Lynx steel mounts for Weaver rail, the scope works great mounted on other rifles.

(I tried it on my 1022 just to rule out failure with the scope.)