Best survival or EOTW book?

[Lurker]

The Bible, while being long on describing what will befall the planet, is way short of useful information on 'physically' surviving the end times.                                                                               

You might want to think your above statement over... In the Bible, you are told how to physically survive the end times. It is in the New Testament...!

Bill

[don heath]

+1 on the bible!

Bought 'the road' bsed on the comments here. :- was more than a little disapointed. The author has obviously never visited countries where there have been total collapses in 'the system'.

Having lived and worked in several countries that went from a functioning government and social services supply to nothing in a matter of weeks I have seen how real survivors get by. Eg in Mozambique, running water to the capital city ended in August 1975 and was only restored in 1997. Electicity supplies were finally cut off totally in 1978, and resfuse collection and sewage processing ended by 1978 as well. Yet the city continued....

Out in the countrysides of mozambeque and the congo the strong with a plan made good.

remember. The strong do what they will, the weak suffer what they must!

[Chilachuck]

The author really did not know what he was talking about on several subjects, as you say.

However, in "The Road" there was not enough light for crops to grow (but it was warm enough for ice and snow to melt?). No crops, world wide, is very much a different matter than what you saw in Mozambique where food was coming in from outside the cities.

The protagonist gets an "A" for attitude and grit, and an "F" for brains.

And he let the kid talk too much. They both should have ended up on the BBQ spit with him giving away their position like that, distracting dad, and drowning out any sounds from possible ambushers.

[teamnelson]

Well if you were expecting the road to be a how-to you were misled or misunderstood. The books sole purpose is highlighting the value of relationship and value against the backdrop of eotwawki. I've been in lots of the 3rd world and the strong aren't predators, it's the emotionally and mentally strong like the main character who endure only with relationships and a fire to carry (figuratively).

Lots of smart tough men will fail when it matters.

[pab1]

Well said TeamNelson! That is the spirit of the book.

Don Heath, you might want to read Patriots by James Wesley Rawles if you want a book that (IMO, not my experience) gives a more accurate detailed account of an economic, governmental and social collapse. I would be interested in your impression of its potential accuracy compared with the experiences you've had.

[teamnelson]

For folks wanting a tactical how-to, consider Tiger's Way. Most often found on military reading lists and bookstores, not often in Barnes & Nobles. Its about low-tech (asian) military culture, techniques and tactics; highlighting how they don't seem to be overwhelmed by superior firepower and technology. You will find that it also emphasizes the need for some mental & emotional capacity built in a team environment - a value system, a reason to live, and a reason to fight & die if necessary. There's a reason why we whistle in the dark.

My own opinion is that a family preparedness plan would be far better suited by turning off the tv and spending time doing difficult things together, rather than bulking up on the canned foods and batteries. If the first time you've ever hoped/expected your wife/son was able to do something significiant and supportive without clear instructions and supervision (like supportive fire while you are moving, or simply doing as told unquestioningly) happens to coincide with a crisis, you will learn a lot too late. So I prefer books that talk about developing mindsets,attitudes and cultures; techniques (how-tos) are easier to pick up on the fly.

[don heath]

pab1 Book ordered. team Nelson, didn't expect a 'how to', but something more plauseable. Have you ever read 'Eagle in the snow' ? not a particularly well written book in many ways but very much an eotw book based on fact- the final collapse of the roman world in Europe. A time when money became worthless over night (true- and many people burried hords of cash hoping for a return to normality that only came 1200 years later), when all shops closed, when running water and sewage in the cities accross the entire (known) world came to an abrupt halt.

[Chilachuck]

Civilization would have returned a lot faster, IMO, if the Moslems had not started conquering Europe. The idiots merging the Roman Empire and the early Catholic Church did not help matters any.

[pab1]

For those of you who enjoyed reading The Road, after some delays, it looks like the movie will finally be released this fall. The preview looks decent. I hope they do the book justice. Here is a link to the trailer.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0898367/

[Yankee1]

Hello Pab1
    I would recomend "Bushcraft" by Graves. This is a serious book about required skills.  It covers everything from making your own cordage to finding water and food. Richard Graves is expert in survival,
If you wish to develop skills this man is the real thing.
You might also ask the native people that you live with questions about the different catagories he discuses and take notes.
                                  Regards
                                 Yankee1

[mannyrock]

   As for novels that contain great survival information, I strongly second the recommendation of Alas Babylon.  The great thing about this novel is that it covers life after catastrophe in FOUR different respects:  how-to stay alive, the evolution of society, the evolution of law, and the importance of human relationships.  A spectacular book.

  The novel "The Road" is certainly not a how-to-survive book in any respect.  It is a great story, but it focuses on the human determination of a man relentlessly trying to travel south with his small son after a global catastrophe, so that that his son may survive in warmer weather.  Unfortunately, virtually everything he does, including walking the roads in broad daylight pushing a shopping cart, is absolutely wrong from a survival viewpoint.  In fact, as a how-to manual, you should just study everything he does, and do the opposite. 

   Regards,

   Mannyrock

[Victor3]

 This is a good one...

http://www.amazon.com/No-Surrender-Thirty-Year-Bluejacket-Books/dp/1557506639

 I read it for the WWII history, but also gleaned some survival info from it.

[jlwilliams]

  "No Surrender" is a great one.  It's on a shelf within eyeshot right now.  Lt Onada had grit, no doubt.  There is indeed quite a bit in there about how he kept alive in the jungle for all that time, and a few reflections on the WWII Japanese mentality and the brain wash that he saw given to his peers.  Those that were more focused on dying a valliant death than on fighting an effective resistance did indeed die long before he was done fighting.  Heck, the rest of the world called it quits before he did.

  For those who don't know; "No Surrender" is the autobiography of Lt Onada.  He was a Japanese officer trained to act as a geurilla leader and assigned to stay behind on Lubang Island in the Philipines when they knew they would lose the PI's.  His assignment was, more or less, 'stay here and be a pain in the American's ass.  Organize locals and run a resistance.  We will come back.  May be a year, may be five, but we will come back and win!'  Turns out he was in the jungle until 1979, and they didn't win.  The locals hated the Japs and loved the Americans, so they were his enemy too.  He started with a few companions and ended up alone over time.  He would only stand down when his wartime CO ordered him to do so.  That's stick-with-it-ness.

  Worth the read.

[Lurker]

  "No Surrender" is a great one.  It's on a shelf within eyeshot right now.  Lt Onada had grit, no doubt.  There is indeed quite a bit in there about how he kept alive in the jungle for all that time, and a few reflections on the WWII Japanese mentality and the brain wash that he saw given to his peers.  Those that were more focused on dying a valliant death than on fighting an effective resistance did indeed die long before he was done fighting.  Heck, the rest of the world called it quits before he did.

  For those who don't know; "No Surrender" is the autobiography of Lt Onada.  He was a Japanese officer trained to act as a geurilla leader and assigned to stay behind on Lubang Island in the Philipines when they knew they would lose the PI's.  His assignment was, more or less, 'stay here and be a pain in the American's ass.  Organize locals and run a resistance.  We will come back.  May be a year, may be five, but we will come back and win!'  Turns out he was in the jungle until 1979, and they didn't win.  The locals hated the Japs and loved the Americans, so they were his enemy too.  He started with a few companions and ended up alone over time.  He would only stand down when his wartime CO ordered him to do so.  That's stick-with-it-ness.

  Worth the read.

I read about him many years ago... Sticking-to-it? It's more than likely a composition of Bushido, and mental illness...

Bill

[Chappers]

I got the road from hearing the comments hear and i only read the first 100 pages them had to put it down because i realized it only about 300 pages long and i would of finished it before i went on holiday.

Pab1 the preview did look good, here is the movie site with a HD preview.
http://www.theroad-movie.com/

Sorry to disagree with you Chilachuck, but Muslims did bring a better knowledge of medicine and mathematics to Europe at that time... i know they are the favour of the month at the moment but that no excuse to blur history.

[mannyrock]

    Chapers is totally correct.  All of the knowledge of the classical age of the Greeks and Romans (from 500 B.C. to 450 A.D.) (which define Western Civilization), including all of the works of history, music, mathematicis, science, engineering, astronomy, and the concept of Democracy itself, were totally lost and unknown to western civilization (i.e., all of Europe) after the fall of Rome to the Germanic tribes, for almost 800 years.  They only survived because the Moslems and Arabic cultures preserved them by keeping and making copies of them, century after century, in their Mosques and libraries in the Middle East.   THEY recognized the importance and genius of these works.


   The Moslem invasions of Europe resulted in calls by the Emperor of Constantinople (the capital of the remaining Eastern Roman Empire) for help in the form of Knights and warriors from the Pope.  The Pope passed this request on to the fuedal Kingdoms of Europe, and this resulted in the THREE separate invasions of the Middle East and Holy Lands by western knights, warriors and noblemen,  which we call The Great Crusades.  As a result of the Crusades, the scholars of the West were put back into contact with the Moslem and Arabic scholars of the East, and were reintroduced to all of previous classical works.

   Once these great works were rediscovered, absorbed and understood, the Renaissance in Europe took place.  This ultimately resulted in the end of the feudal system, and created Western Civilization as we know it today.  And, by the way, our current system of numbers is based totally upon the Arabic system, incuding the use of a base of 10.

   So, we can thank  the Moslems and Arabs, and their invasions of Europe, for the preservation and growth of Western Civilization as we know it.  :-)  We can thank the powerful Germanic Tribes of the north, being the Goths, the Visigoths, the Vandals, the Tutans, the Saxons and the Franks, for the near permanent destruction of Western Civilization.

   Funny how things work.  :-)

Regards,

Mannyrock

 

[Chilachuck]

Sorry to disagree with you Chilachuck, but Muslims did bring a better knowledge of medicine and mathematics to Europe at that time... i know they are the favour of the month at the moment but that no excuse to blur history.

I agree they brought the knowledge, but people keep saying they invented what they brought. They didn't. They learned these things from the people they were conquering.

[Chappers]

Islam (as a culture)  did preserve a lot of western knowledge but it also built upon it they where pioneers in Chemistry (Geber), mathematics (Al-Hassar: modern mathematical notation of fractions, Maghreb: pioneer of symbolic algebra) and also medicine (Greek texts at this point of time where 900 years out of date, Muslims did add to these texts.

But hay we are getting off topic,

Im really interested in what are peoples opinion of what happened the earth in “The Road”?

Only read 100 pages and trying not to pick it up till im out west camping but im leaning to atomic war.

[mannyrock]

Chappers,

    Good comments about the moslem cultures. 

    If we tell you our thoughts about what happened to earth in the Road, then we will be spoiling some of the book for you, because we would be telling bits and pieces of it that you haven't read.

    The Road is a very haunting story that will stay with you long after you have read it, a hallmark of an excellent novel.  So, you may just want to wait until you have read it all.

Regards,

Mannyrock

[teamnelson]

... history records that there is always somebody "carrying the fire" of knowledge for all of humanity eventhough its extinguished elsewhere. Persia had it for its time ... not Islam, and that's a careful distinction. I've done some post-graduate work in Islamic History, at a school in Amman, Jordan and other field sites around the region. Islam destroyed a lot of knowledge and culture during its militant spread across the hemisphere, but under Persia much was preserved and developed, as well as under the Turks and even some of the Caliphs. Among the casualties of Islamic destruction were histories of non-Islamic cultures, faiths and practices. What has been discovered archaelogically in the last century or so is fascinating, and reveals hints of things we'll never probably recover.

I think that's what I like so much about The Road; there is a knowledge or an idea worth preserving, a fire worth carrying, even in the worst of scenarios. Apocalyptic fiction often depicts the odd character trying to save books. Whatever the future holds, people like that will be praised for their foresight.

[pab1]

Im really interested in what are peoples opinion of what happened the earth in “The Road”?

One of my worries about the movie, from what I saw on the trailer, is that it will be turned into a "global warming" tale. I always pictured either a major volcanic event or an asteroid hitting the earth. For all of you that enjoyed The Road, check out Cormac McCarthys other books too. 

[Chappers]

Apocalyptic fiction often depicts the odd character trying to save books. Whatever the future holds, people like that will be praised for their foresight.

That is very true. even if it just “little Timmys picture dictionary” or that 20 page booklet that you go after finishing your first aid course and not forgetting you chosen book of faith The Bible, The Tanakh or The Quran.
These books of faith would be much needed is such a time (teaching the basics of humanity, firm and simple laws to live by and helping bind communities) even if they helped cause such a future by peoples ill use of such texts.

[mannyrock]

   It has been over 20 years since I read Lucifer's Hammer, but I remember that in the story, after the catastrophe, a professor got his set of hard back books, called "How Things Work,"  and saved them from the mobs, by tying them up in numerous plastic garbage bags and lowering them into a septic tank.  Of course, when basic order was restored a few years later, he recovered them, and they were in great demand.

   I have seen this set of books before, and it explains in detail, topic by topic, device by device, exactly how most modern machines and systems work, including generators, compressors, pumps, toilets, etc.

  As for Persia, the Persians had the most complex, advanced and powerful civilization on Earth, until they kept annoying the Greeks by repeatedly trying to conquor them.  Alexander the Great finally invaded Persia, destroyed its armies, took its mountains of gold, burned its capital (Persepolis) to the ground, and, during one of his drunken orgies, completely burned the Royal Palace (a huge structure with wall lined with actual gold) to the ground.  After the destruction of Persia, Persia remained in its third world state for over 2,200  years, only emerging in the 1950s as a modern industrial state (renamed Iran).   

     And now, Iran is bent on creating nuclear capabilites, which Israel simply won't allow.  So, get ready to see Israel bomb Iran back into the stone age in a few months.

Regards,

Mannyrock

[Dweezil]

I HATED  "The Road."  If you just want to read a vaguely depressing, post-apocalyptic tale maybe it's ok.  It bugged the hell out of me that this catastrophic event was so bad that no crops or animal life would survive...but humans at the top of the food chain would...at least in reduced numbers, and that the water was contaminated with ash preventing plant life and killing aquatic animals but you could still filter it through a dirty bandanna and safely drink it. Last I checked ash+water=Lye, and you can't filter that through a bandana. Cormac McCarthy may be a decent novelist, but he has a loose grasp of basic science, at best, and that ruins it for me.

[billy_56081]

I'll have to read the road, sounds interesting.

The Turner Diaries was a good fictional book, with the present administation and congress in America I could see it happening.

[Victor3]

I read about him many years ago... Sticking-to-it? It's more than likely a composition of Bushido, and mental illness...

Bill

 I suppose it would depend on your definition of mental illness.

 It does appear that he was a bit brainwashed and self-deluded (kinda like me and most everyone else on the planet to one degree or another ).

 Regardless, he survived for three decades under conditions that would have done the average man in after three months.

 Pass the Bushido and straight jacket over here, Onada 

[jlwilliams]

  He had thirty years to reflect.  He does make some mention of the manipulated mindset that the Japanese governmaent instilled in him and his generation.  I'll stop short of spoiling it for those who want to read for themselves.  I'm not endorsing the line of thinking that put him on the island longer than Gilligan & the castaways, but I do think his perspective is worth reading. 

  I find it compelling to read the life's stories of people who's characters and experiences are far from mine.   Onada's life and times are a slice of life and history that any of us are unlikely to know any better than we can through his writing.  Throw in some real survival lessons from a man who fought a jungle war for thirty five years, and that's a bargain.

  Welkl worth your time.

[Victor3]

 Throw in some real survival lessons from a man who fought a jungle war for thirty five years, and that's a bargain.

 I read the book only once ~10 years ago (need to find it and read it again), but some useful survival info I remember off the top of my head:

1. How to keep your rifle working long-term - Preservation and cleaning, modifying available ammo to fit it, caching/preserving ammo.

2. Preserving meat/foraging.

3. Evading detection/capture in a relatively small, sparsely inhabited area.

4. Primitive 1st aid.

5. How to set up a simple camp quickly that can also be torn down and left quickly, leaving minimal evidence it was there.

6. How to keep from going bananas when it's raining hard for weeks on end.

7. How to avoid being eaten alive by ants while sleeping.

 I'm sure there's more I can't remember...

[Lurker]

I read about him many years ago... Sticking-to-it? It's more than likely a composition of Bushido, and mental illness...

Bill

 I suppose it would depend on your definition of mental illness.

 It does appear that he was a bit brainwashed and self-deluded (kinda like me and most everyone else on the planet to one degree or another ).

 Regardless, he survived for three decades under conditions that would have done the average man in after three months.

 Pass the Bushido and straight jacket over here, Onada 

Google "Bushido," and see what you get...!

Here, I did it for you...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushid%C5%8D

Bill

[Victor3]

Google "Bushido," and see what you get...!

 I'm quite familiar with it, but thanks anyway