Author Topic: New Pistol Buying Advice Wanted  (Read 2094 times)

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Offline Mawgie

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New Pistol Buying Advice Wanted
« on: June 11, 2003, 11:48:20 AM »
Folks -
I am in the market for a pump style air pistol.  The uses will be indoor plinking, and close range hunting.  My budget is $75-$150.  So far, I really like the Daisy 717 and 747.  I also like the look of the Gamo Compact.  I have seen Crossman/Benjamin pump pistols that look good, too, but can't find any reviews on them: models 1377C, EB17/EB20.

My main considerations are accuracy, with as much velocity as possible, for a low price. Ideally, the gun will be one pump only for a full charge.

My guess is that the Daisy 717/747 will be hard to beat.

I'd appreciate any input, and thank you for your assistance.

Regards-Mawgie

Offline Lawdog

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New Pistol Buying Advice Wanted
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2003, 12:34:12 PM »
Mawgie,

I don't think you can beat the Crosman 1377C.  Really accurate IF you put different sights on them.  I keep two around, one in the barn and another in my shed, just to keep the pack rat population under control.  I mounted scopes on them and they will shoot with my Beeman P1 .20 any day.  At 600 fps. they really pop the pests that show up.  Lawdog
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline Mawgie

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New Pistol Buying Advice Wanted
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2003, 12:43:16 PM »
Whoops!
I meant Benjamin HB17.  
I know the EB series guns are Co2 powered.....

Offline dave

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plinking pistols
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2003, 03:05:41 PM »
I think you will be disappointed by the Daisy pistols power. Its way under 400 fps. The Crosman 1377 is ok but a lot of cheap pastic parts. Given that price range I'd get the Sheridan HB20.  You can get 420 fps@10 pumps out of it, more than enough for squirrels etc out to about 15 yards or so.  Mine will shoot under 1/2" out to about 15 yards. Its also much better quality than the Crosman, and will last a very long time.  The HB is a bit tougher to pump than the 1377 since the pumptube is somewhat larger in diameter. The HB has a steel pump mechanism with a rubber cup, where the 1377 is all plastic with a plastic cup. The sights on both guns leave something to be desired, but the HBs are at least steel, but are somewhat tricky to adjust as are the 1377s. The 1377 also has a cheapo plastic breech assembly that will wear out in short order, the HBs tube/breech/barrel assembly is made of very durable phosphor bronze. You can replace the cheapie plastic parts with decent aftermarket goodies, but after all that is said and done you could have gotten the HB for much less.



Offline deerhunter

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New Pistol Buying Advice Wanted
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2003, 01:47:11 AM »
I like my Daisy 747, but I like my Beeman P3 even better.  It is a single pump pnumatic.  They make it look like a 9mm, but the trigger is so awesome its not funny.  I think it is as accurate as the Daisy too.  The daisy shoots about 360 fps and the P3 about 400fps.

I think you can pick up a P3 for about $130 or so.

Offline Lawdog

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New Pistol Buying Advice Wanted
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2003, 10:27:54 AM »
dave,

Sorry to disagree with you about the 1377.  Both of mine are over 10 years old(one is 11 years and the other is 12) and have had thousands of pellets shot thru them and I just checked them this morning after reading your post and both still go 580+ fps.(10 pumps and Copperhead target pellets) on my chronograph.  The following is from Crosman, who makes the HB17 - HB20 - HB22;

Crosman Model: 1377C
Mechanism: Single shot bolt action
Power Source: Pumps
Caliber: .177
Ammunition: Pellets
Velocity: up to 600 fps
Weight: 32 oz.
Length: 13.625 in.
Material:
Barrel: Rifled Steel
Grip: Synthetic
Forearm: Synthetic
Rifling: Yes
Sights:
Front: Fixed
Rear: Fully adjustable

Sheridan Model: HB17
Mechanism: Bolt action, single shot
Power Source: Pump
Caliber: .177
Ammunition: Pellets
Velocity: up to 525 fps
Weight: 40 oz.
Length: 12.25 in.
Material:
Barrel: Brass, black
Grip/Forearm: American Hardwood
Rifling: Yes
Sights:
Front: High ramp blade
Rear: Open adjustable

You will notice that the barrel in the Sheridan, Benjamin really, is brass where the barrel in the Crosman is steel.  Don't take my word for it go to the Crosman web site and check it out for yourself.

http://www.crosman.com/products

Lawdog
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline dave

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New Pistol Buying Advice Wanted
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2003, 01:00:50 PM »
Do your old 1377s have the plastic or steel breech? The designs have changed even in the past few years.The new ones are all plastic, many tend to leak around the transfer port seal, and the plastic can and will wear and warp with time. The HBs are of much higher quality, and tend to last almost forever. The construction is Phosphor bronze. Bronze and brass are both copper alloys, bronze being alloyed with tin, and brass with zinc. The copper/zinc alloy is soft, the copper/tin alloy is much harder and more durable.  The phosphor content is what gives it the brassy yellow color,and is used for improved machineability.  I think the confusion comes from the term "red brass" thats often applied to bronze alloys. As for the "steel" barrels, that means nothing. Since the Crosman barrels are mild steel in its unhardened state its not much harder than the quality bronze used in the B/S guns. The depth of the rifling in the Crosman guns is almost microscopic, and is very easily worn/damaged, unlike the B/S guns that have nice deep rifling. I have seen plenty of bronze Benji, Sheridan, and Crosman barrels that are decades old, some 70+ years, with little wear in the rifling. I have also had my share of the cheap late model modular guns, the 22xx and 13xx. The barrels aren't bad at all, and can with some work be pretty accurate. But,almost every new one I have seen was defective in some way due to poor quality control. Burrs in the breech end, burrs in the port, off center and sloppy crowns, etc. No such thing with the HBs.



Offline Lawdog

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New Pistol Buying Advice Wanted
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2003, 09:37:01 AM »
dave,

Both of my 1377's have steel breeches as does the one my son just bought last April from our local Big Five Sports.  My oldest one has a slide cover/bolt on the breech and the other has a bolt like my son's.  The barrels are nicely tempered and are quite hard.  I tried an HB17 back when I first bought my 1377 but didn't like the way it shot or the lack of being able to mount different sights on it(at the time Crosman was not offering scope mounts for it, don't know about now).  I like the 1377 and I like the additional 100 plus fps. it gives you over other type pumps.  Lawdog
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline dave

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Crosman 1377s
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2003, 01:56:36 PM »
You say you have two 1377s with bolt action steel breeches? Crosman never offered a steel bolt action breech on the 1377. The Phase 1 model, the one with one piece grips, steel breech, slide cover/bolt and separate cocking knob in the rear of the pressure tube, was discontinued in 1981. It was replaced by the Phase 2 model, similiar but with redesigned gripframe and trigger, different 2 piece grips and redesigned pump mechanism. In 1998 the plastic breech with brass bolt action was introduced.  There are a couple aftermarket replacements available, only one is steel, the others are aluminum. Were the guns purchased new or used? Could they have been modified at some point?



Offline Lawdog

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New Pistol Buying Advice Wanted
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2003, 10:16:32 AM »
dave,

I DO have two 1377's as I described.  Bought them both new from Wal-Mart and I still have the dated receipts in the boxes.  As for how long Wal-Mart had them in their warehouse, I have no idea.  As for your information about Phase 1 or Phase 2 models you may very well be right.  I do know that both of my 1377's and my son's are all marked "American Classic" and the serial No. of my oldest one that I have in front of me is N91500***.  I have no idea when it was made and really don't care but a magnet sticks to the breech just as well as it does to the barrel.  One last thing is with Mawgie's budget of $75-$150 the 1377 fills the bill including scope and mounts.  Hard to do that with the HB-17.  Lawdog
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline dave

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New Pistol Buying Advice Wanted
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2003, 11:50:31 AM »
I didn't see any mention of scopes or mounts in the original post. The HBs sell for around $100, and I for one would rather spend a little more and get a lot more quality.
Do you have any pictures of those steel bolt-action breeches?  I'd be interested to see what they look like. Theres no mention of them in any Crosman reference or repair guides or manuals, or in any parts listings.



Offline Bad Bob

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Beeman P-3
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2003, 07:17:39 PM »
I don't know of these pistols except the Daisey 747 and it isn't anything to compare to the P-3 in my opinion.  You can even mount a scope on it and mine will shoot one jagged hole at 20 yds indoors.  And yes I killed a baby coon last year at 20 yds, right between the eyes off my golf cart.  Every time I get one broke in someone comes along and has to have one of those Desert Eagles.  Also, right out of the box my trigger is exceptional.  Check it out!!!!

Offline echochap

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Looked at a Crosman 2240??
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2003, 02:37:30 PM »
I know it's not a pump, but have you thought about the Crosman 2240? This is a pretty cool gun for the $$ that can really be modified into something special. I have a 9mm conversion kit on the way right now, and a PCP .25 cal conversion being built. I also have several that I have modified myself and use a lot for hunting.

Jim

Offline Deaf Smith

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DAQ 25 caliber 2240
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2003, 03:19:11 PM »
I HAVE ONE OF THESE AND i CAN TELL YOU IT HITS HARD. IWOULD SUGEST A 2250 FOR YOUR USE CONES AS A CARBINE BUT YOU CAN GET PISTOL GRIPS FROM CROSMAN PRETTY CHEAP. 22 CALIBER GUN  HARD HITTING AND ACCURATE AS HELL.
dEAF sMITH
Jim L
Proud TFL alumnus



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Offline Bad Bob

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Beeman P-3
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2003, 06:45:43 PM »
I would give the Beeman P-3 a look and it will even take a scope.  Trigger is outstanding and power is ample.  Think they sell around $l30.  LOL