How Big Should The Bullseye Be?

[Snareman]

I don't really see a gun forum for general questions, so I'll post this here since I have a .243 bolt action...

I was wondering how big the bullseye should be when I sight in my rifles?  I don't get fancy and often shoot off the top of my car or pickup hood.  I usually use an approx. 1" dot darkened with black felt tip marker on regular cardboard paper from a box.  Is a 1" like this about right?  I like the black dot because it shows up in my scopes ok and has worked for me.

Should it be bigger?  Why?

Are there better bullseyes to aim at besides my creative black dot idea?

When I hear of these 1" MOA groups, is that inside the bullseye?  A nice tight group like that would be nice, but not if it's outside the bullseye.

Last night I quickly sighted in my .243 using the above methods and fired only 2 shots for my final shooting.  It was starting to drizzle.  1st shot was 1/4" to the left and the 2nd shot was almost dead center so I called it quits for now.  I'd like to go back and finish to make sure.

Any tips, opinions or advice appreciated.

Snareman

[moxgrove]

I've always liked a small black dot for general sight in. I also like the grids with diamonds. No group size doesn't necessarily mean in the bullseye. Google accuracy vs precision for a detailed explanation.

[corbanzo]

That is the size bullseye I prefer, and that you see on most targets.  Well, at least with circular targets.  I have lately been using square targets, where the whole target is all one inch squares, with 2"X2" diamonds for bullseyes.  

The squares make it easy to tell group sizes, and the diamonds differentiate the groups (five per target)  But at 100 yards a one inch reference point for shooting MOA is pretty much standard.

[moxgrove]

precision =shots clustered tightly together, not necessarily at the intended point.
accuracy= in the general area of the intended bullseye, not necessarily tightly clustered within the intended bullseye.
 accuracy with precision= tightly clustered within the designated bullseye.
 The general approach is to get acceptable , repeatable precision and then make the necessary adjustment to put that repeatable cluster in the bullseye.
 Different people like different bullseyes or aimpoints. the key for me is to have one that helps me to exactly repeat the position on the aimpoint for each shot.
 The 2 shot group you shot was great for about any hunting application. The key is repeatability. If you can put two shot that close together every time, then you definitely have it licked.

[Coyote Hunter]

The size of the bullseye doesn't matter much so long as its at least large enough to see and/or there are other visual aids to help you align the scope with repeatable precision.  I prefer Champion-Redfield Sight-in targets for a number of reasons including the large vertcal and horizontal lines that align with the bullseye.  Placing the reticle over these lines helps center the scope in the bull.

Group size is independent of bullseye size and the group need not be in the bullseye.  In fact, my groups are rarely in the bullseye because of the bullseye size I use (1-2") and the manner in which my rifles are zeroed (2-3" high at 100 yards).  A 1 MOA group is a 1 MOA group regardless of where it is.  (If it isn't where you want it, adjust the scope.)

With iron sights I often find that larger is better and black is preferred - a 6MOA target is the minimum I find I can use with any consistency, depending on the rifle sights, and 8MOA is usually better.

[The Sodbuster]

Where I do most of my shooting I staple paper targets to rubber "belts" that are stretched between posts.  The belts are black.  I don't like targets with a lot of black in them as it's difficult to see hits in the black.  That's just my $0.02 worth.  I'd go along with others that size or color doesn't make a lot of difference as long as you can see it well enough to aim.  I do like 1/2" or 1" grids for sighting in a rifle so you can see through the scope how many inches up/down or right/left you need to adjust to get 'er dead on.

[beemanbeme]

It kinda depends.  I buy the 1" stickers by the roll and make my own targets.  If I'm developing a load, I'll put several stickers on one sheet of note book paper and shoot a different loading at each bull.  The I put the various load data on the target and it goes in the rifle's binder. 
I still like to put 2 to 4 stickers on one sheet of paper even if I'm just verifying zero. 
I sometimes use 2' stickers when I'm using open sights or peep sights.

[Snareman]

Hello gentleman,

Thanks for the replies. It's good to get ideas on how others do it.  I just do it the way dad did and was seeing if I was on the right track looking for other ideas.

I appreciate the response.  Take care,

Snareman

[corbanzo]

To add to the above, presicion is what most shooters will be going for.  The test of a shooter is the shot group.  If they can shoot consistant groups, no matter where on the paper the groups are, then they have a good rifle and shooter. 

If you are a precise shooter, the rest is up to the scope.  If you shoot tight groups, like moxgrove said, all you need is scope adjustments.

There are sometimes where my scopes have been a little bit off, and even in a few shooting session, I didn't take any time to fix the inch or so it was off center; but when it came down to hunting season, then I make sure the scope is dead nuts center.  Then I know its all up to me. 

[Catfish]

The size of your bull should depend on the sights on the gun. For iron sights on a handgun I like a 3 to 4 in. bull. For scopes it depends on the mag. of the scopes. With my 24X scopes I often put up a blank sheet of paper and shoot a .22 cal. hole in it a point of aim. The bull should be just large enough that you have no trouble seeing it behind your cross hair or over your sights.

[Snareman]

Catfish,

While I sighted in the last time under grey conditions and was drizzling slightly, I did notice I was thinking the bullseye should be bigger.  When the crosshairs were on the dot, I could barely make the dot out.  I'm thinking if I went to a 1½" bullseye, I could see it better while the crosshair rests on it.

You brought up a good point.

As for tight groups, I'd take a tight group within the bullseye than a tight group outside the bullseye any day.

Thanks again!

Snareman

[huntswithdogs]

Iuse the targets with the squares on it for sighting in. After that I usually will shoot at a 1'' orange dot. I buy these at Wallyworld or Office Depot. Just stick em on a piece of paper and hang em up.

HWD