Deer bullets in .223 Handi?

[PeterCartwright]

This may be a field already plowed, but my question is motivated by working with recoil shy kids who are rather new to firearms.  I see that .223 barrels come from the factory with two rates of twist. (9" and 12", as I recall).  I really don't care to make this a thread about whether or not people think the .223 is suitable as a deer getter. Generally  speaking, I'd agree with those who say there are better cartridges for the task.  That said, I'm working with a boy right now for whom I really wish I had a ready, tuned, scoped .223 with the 9" twist to help him through his recoil shy stage.  (Michigan's deer Youth Hunt weekend is upcoming).  We're going to be set up on a small food plot where shots will not exceed 50 yards.  My tried and true .30-30 has spooked a 13 year old who's pretty new to the hunting world.  I'm thinking a .223 that handled some of the newer .22 cal. "deer bullets" would be just the ticket for this circumstance.  Since I work with these kinds of kids each year, such a .223 would be a great tool to have in the box.

Have any of you worked with either Barnes TSX or the 60 gr. Nosler partition in a 9" Handi?  I may have to invest either in a new barrel (or a new youth rifle) for next year.  (Such a pity, sigh... )

One more practical matter:  Do all the new .223 barrrels come with a 9" twist?

[skifastchad]

After seeing first hand what the Federal Vital Shock 223 ammo with the nosler partition does to big coyotes, I can imagine that it would work on a well placed lung shot on any deer. 
Has the kid practiced enough to know the fine line between a shoulder shot and a lung shot?  If so, I think a 60 grain NP will be fine. 
Whether or not its big enough only depends on where it travels through the deer.

[PartsMan]

So far the 223 superlight barrels are still 1 in12.
Most of the new reg weight and heavy barrels are 1 in 9 now,
but some gun shops have new rifles that are 2 or three years old.
The only way to know is check.(see faqs)

My heavy barrel 22" 223 has shot everything I put in it 2" or less at 100yd.
45g to 64g including 60g partitions which is what I would recomend on deer.

[Mac11700]

If you have a Cabela's close by...go there and look at some of the American Eagle 63 grain soft points...The product # is XMAE223SP...Open the box and look at the case real close...If it is marked LC with a cross inside a circle...buy some...These are the new 223's with the 63 grain Federal Fusion bullets in them...If the case is marked FC with out the cross & circle...it is the Sierra game king bullet... Federal made a big goof...and put a whole bunch of these into their econo-line AE ammo by mistake...This load will be in their premium TRU ammo in the spring...and will be around $14-$18 a box when it is...This is a fusion bonded bullet...and Cabela's was selling them at a discounted price of $5.89 a box for the LC marked ammo...and the regular FC marked cases at $6.85...The LC stands for Lake City...and this brass is some of the best you can get...The fusion bullets seem to do real well with the Handi's...and most other rifles...and is what my son will be using next month on the youth hunt here in Missouri...and when I spoke with the techs at Federal...said they would work fine on any deer they were used on..

Mac

[Inrut24/7]

I recomend the speer 70 grain semi spitzer, they shoot 1 1/2  5 shot groups from my 1 in 12 twist 223 ultra varmint, the 70 grain speer is about the same length as most 55 grain bullets. 

[PeterCartwright]

Thanks, guys.  Great responses.  Have any of you actually taken deer with one of these more heavily constructed .22 bullets?

[~Ace~]

[flame on]   Put a Limb Saver recoil pad on the 30/30, when you multiply a New shooter with a Anemic round, you most often have a deer run off and not get recovered.... Not much of a experience for the new hunter or the deer. I understand the Youth hunt is around the corner, but it may be un-realistic to take the child if he has not reached the skill level required to make a clean kill... remember, there are Other PEOPLE in the woods also. [flame off] ~Ace~

[Inrut24/7]

Not yet, if i get a buck with the bow im taking the 223 doe hunting this year, i did alot of searches on .224 deer bullets on www.accuratereloading.com and the speer seems to be the most recommended bullet from people who have used them.

[PeterCartwright]

Ace:  If that's the worst "flame" I have to face, I think I'll survive  .  I take your point, and your suggestion about a Sorbothane butt pad makes great sense.  (I used one to defang a .338 Winnie I'm playing with.  Works great!) 

On the other hand, I saw a picture  of an exit wound on a blacktail posted by an AK resident who regularly uses his .223 to hunt deer.  He was bragging about the TSX.  I have to say, the picture was pretty impressive.  (Never mind that he carried only a .223 in land also occupied by quadripeds capable of stomping, rending, and eating one's person!!!!  Personally, I'm far more gonadally challenged than that.)

I'm NOT interested in using a varmint bullet to hunt whitetails.  I'm asking about the performance of .22 bullets designed for taking deer.

[Uncle Ji]

Not a deer but killed a couple wild pigs with the Sierra 70 grain semi-spitzers from a Mini-14 none requiring a second round, each a shoulder shot, each about 150 pounds.  For a factory round I've heard good things about the Winchester 64 grain (power point?)

[PHATINJUN]

Pete I just spit coffee all over my screen sure didn't see that coming "gonadally challenged" I need to stick that one under my hat Kurt

[quickdtoo]

Here are reviews on some recommended 223 deer bullets, all work well in 1:12" H&Rs,  track record in the 1:9" H&Rs isn't as good.

Tim

60gr Nosler Partition

63gr Sierra Semi-pointed

64gr Winchester Power Point

[PeterCartwright]

Thanks, Tim-especially about the preferred rate of twist.  That's exactly opposite from what I would have presumed.  This kind of information makes this forum priceless.

Thanks again, all!

[quickdtoo]

I'm not saying the 1:9" won't shoot the heavier bullets, more than likely you'll be able to find a load that would shoot fine, but there have been many, many members that have tried them, using conventional wisdom that the faster twist shoots the heavier bullets better, but apparently due to the very shallow rifling of the 1:9", it's not necessarily true, that's the general concensus in past discussions anyway, for instance, it may work fine with lighter charges using slower powder for a handloader, but factory ammo wouldn't work.

If you choose to get the Superlight 223 with the light weight 20" barrel, you'll be getting a 1:12" barrel until they run out of em, as of the last I checked, that's all they have ever had in it, but when they run out of em, it too will be 1:9" on the next barrel run.

Tim

[Mac11700]

One nice thing about the Fusions...while the jackets are bonded...and hold together nicely...they aren't near as hard a jacket material as some of the other bullets...This is why most Handi's shoot them good with their type of rifling...They stabilize good in them...Hopefully a nice buck will present himself to my son...so we can see how they do..If not...I'll be trying them out on the second season for a nice fat doe...

Mac

[quickdtoo]

I forgot to include the 70gr Speer review.

Tim

Speer 70gr Semi-spitzer

[quickdtoo]

Something that has crossed my mind is the size of the bullets, just because the bullet mfr indicates the bullet is a certain size, .224" in this case, doesn't mean they are. I experienced this first hand with the .405 Winchester and Barnes 350gr XFB bullets that are supposed to be .411", but actually measure .410", and didn't shoot worth a hoot in my rifle. It may very well be that bullets that measure on the large size are the ones that may shoot best in the 1:9", I haven't loaded for the .223 yet so I have no first hand experience, just thought I'd throw that thought out to those with the 1:9" that are having problems shooting the heavier, longer bullets.

Tim

[PeterCartwright]

Has the Superlight barrel performed well? 

[PartsMan]

My heavy barrel 22" 223 has shot everything I put in it 2" or less at 100yd.

This is well within hunting accuracy for youth on deer.
Even though it's a 1 in 9"

[quickdtoo]

Here are some previous discussions on 223 Superlight performance.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,105657.msg1098298261.html#msg1098298261

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,78605.msg485966.html#msg485966

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,115913.msg1098371769.html#msg1098371769

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,44773.msg258690.html#msg258690

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,83896.msg509432.html#msg509432

[Rustyinfla]

 I know a lot of people that use a .22 Hornet for deer. One guy is a farmer in NC who uses it to shoot them out of his soy beans. He likes the Hornet because the deer will walk 50 yards or so out of the bean field before they expire. That way there is less damage to the beans.
   Others south of me here in Florida use them as well. They simply say, "it's all I need."

[PeterCartwright]

Thanks, Tim.  Looks like that Superlight might be just the ticket.  It would also serve well as a "bridge" rifle to help bring young shooters along until they were comfortable with a bit more recoil.

Now I'll have to start look'n for some gun money .

[quickdtoo]

 Yeah, that's the hard part!!!

Tim

[safetysheriff]

for a super-reliable, inexpensive deer bullet you can buy or handload the 55 or 60 gr' Hornady spire point ( no cannelure is preferred from what i've read) in a .223 ; or you can buy the .223 by Remington/UMC with their soft-pointed bullet in 55 grain as a "very probable" killer of deer.    the Hornady's work like a charm if they are put into the lungs.    the 55 gr' Remington i've only read about as being amazingly tough on game (including on wild hogs if shot from a quartering-away direction.   they don't have to penetrate the gristle plate that way).    the hornady's i've seen used by a landowner; the remington was part of an NRA article about hunting wild hogs from several years ago.   finding a .223 as part of a wild hog article was a surprise to me.   

the hornady's will work on deer of good size, with 250 pounds being an estimate of one taken by a landowner, at distances to a little over 150 yards, out of  a .223!         what a great cartridge!

ss

[billy_56081]

  I believe Barnes makes a .224 X bullet also. It should work fine.  Another option would be to down load some 30-30 ammo for practice then use the real deal when hunting, the kid will never know the difference. My daughter shot all summer practicing with her 30-30 then made a perfect heart shot on her bear. We used 130 hornady single shot pistol bullets fer her hunting. But a .223 will get the job done with a good bullet like those all mentioned here.

[hank 45]

This past deer season in west texas( Edwards County) I used the cheep wal-mat winchester 45 grain jacketed hollow point.Took lung/heart shots. They did travel about 15 yards before expiring.Upon cleaning and inspecting the lungs.These organs were shredded to pieces.Between my son ,my brother and myself we took 8 deer.These shots were approximately 165 yards. I would have never dreamed of using a 223 for deer.25.06 was my caliber of choice. But I now love my single shot NEF rifle in223 caliber. Also every time I walk into wal-mart I manage to pick up a box or two of 40 round 223 45 grain jacketed hollow point for about 30 dollars each.

[kevinsmith5]

Berger Makes a 70 gr bullet that you should be able to load to where it would have over 1000 ft-lbs out to 175 yards.  Their recommended twist rate for that bullet is 1:9. I'm thinking of getting some and working on loads. If I do I'll post here.

[bud1]

    I am now 83 years old and I have not given up on my deer hunting.  I can no longer walk through the woods, so I sit and watch.  I have shot my last four deer with a .223 and a 45grain Barnes X bullet.  They all dropped in their tracks with a neck shot. The furthest shot was eighty yards. That one weighed 375 before dressing.  Teach your boy to hit what he aims at and he will find the .223 a adequate rifle.  Good luck.  Do not let him shoot at the deer, but at a point on the deer.  If they are facing him, the white spot under the chin is an excellent target.  I use a youth super light Handi with a spacer to get a 13 inch pull on my stock and I find the accuracy excellent

[Airsporter]

the American Eagle 63 grain soft points...The product # is XMAE223SP...Open the box and look at the case real close...If it is marked LC with a cross inside a circle...buy some...These are the new 223's with the 63 grain Federal Fusion bullets in them...
Mac

Some time ago, I saw this ammo listed as a LE contract overrun.  I bought a case of 500 (25 boxes) at ball ammo price.  Inside it's American Eagle 20rd boxes with a white sticker on it with that code#.  Came in a sealed Federal box.  Haven't shot any of this yet, but I'm thinking it may be a 'best buy' ever. 

[petemi]

I have never even thought to use a .223 for deer, so I can't recommend a load or a bullet.  I have better "deer" rifles.  If a kid can handle a .223, I can't see why a 7mm-08 wouldn't work.  Smacking a 90 lb. Florida swamp deer is one thing, taking a 200 lb Michigan deer is another.  I love my, .223, but won't allow them to be used for deer on my property.  I've spent more than one night out tracking deer wounded by them.  Perhaps it was the shooters fault....pilot error....and again, perhaps not.  I'm not trying to be a nay sayer, and I know lots of folks have killed lots of deer with them.......but lots more have fallen to a .22LR.....is that a "deer" rifle too?

Pete