Author Topic: HOW WOULD I CHOOSE A TWIST RATE?  (Read 891 times)

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Offline triggerman

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HOW WOULD I CHOOSE A TWIST RATE?
« on: September 07, 2007, 09:08:19 AM »
How would I go about choosing a twist rate for a fifty cal shooting 500 gr. Round nose at about 2000 to 2400 fps

Offline Syncerus

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Re: HOW WOULD I CHOOSE A TWIST RATE?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2007, 09:17:34 AM »
Well, you can use the Greenhill formula, you can buy what the barrel makers have with the reasonable expectation that they'll have the most common variations, or you can copy others.

The fastest twist in common use is 1:10 and the slowest in common use is probably 1:18. People get passionate about the issue, but my guess is that any of the common twists will work perfectly well for you. A-Square uses the 1:10 twist in the .500 A2. I believe the English doubles use a slower twist (1:18?).

I wouldn't copy the .50 BMG people though; they operate at a much higher velocity threshold and will thus use less twist.
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Offline IOWA DON

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Re: HOW WOULD I CHOOSE A TWIST RATE?
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2007, 10:38:44 AM »
I've read several magazine articles that make me think that it is generally better to have a faster twist than the so called optimum needed to stabilize a bullet. First, over stabilized bullets are supposed to be not as accurate as ones that are optimally stabilized. Inaccuracy supposedly results because the the center of mass of a bullet is not perfectly aligned with its geometric center. Because of this misalignment, the greater the over stabilization, the greater the loss of accuracy. I have read that now, compared to many years ago, bullets are made so much better that over stabilization causes a lot less loss of accuracy. Second, I read an article where the author did a number of tests simulation deflection caused by shooting through brush. He found that in calibers like the .338 Winchester that the lighter bullets were less deflected. He thought that was because they were more over stabilized. He also found that big bore rifle with slow twists were not as good as big bore rifle with fast twists in regard to deflection in brush. Finally, there was a recent article were the author tested identical bullets, at the same velocity, fired out of rifles with different twist rates. He found that the bullets fired out of rifles with faster twist rates generally maintained better downrange velocity. His assumption was that the over stabilized bullets traveled more "point-forward" than the other bullets. That is, a bullet traveling point first is more streamlined than a bullet traveling slightly sideways, and he thought the bullets in slower twist guns were possibly traveling slightly sideways. In the past I have ordered a couple barrels with slower than standard twist rates for the caliber because I planned on using them with lighter bullets. I would probabaly go with a faster twist rate now.

Offline Grumulkin

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Re: HOW WOULD I CHOOSE A TWIST RATE?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2007, 11:47:44 PM »
First of all, I think "over stabilized" is a bit of an oxymoron.  How can a bullet be over stabilized and how could that be bad?

As an example, barrels chambered for some .224 caliber centerfires came out with 1:14 twist barrels.  Then it was decided by someone that a 1:12 twist barrel was better.  Now a 1:10 or 1:8 twist is better.  Quite some time ago, I read an article by some accomplished shooter whose advice was to go with an even faster twist.  I suspect that a lot of cartridges would benefit from so over stabilization.

Offline IOWA DON

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Re: HOW WOULD I CHOOSE A TWIST RATE?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2007, 06:28:32 AM »
Grumulkin - Agree. What was considered to be twist rate overstabilizing a given bullet in the past may be a more or less optimum twist rate now. - DON

Offline benchracer

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Re: HOW WOULD I CHOOSE A TWIST RATE?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2007, 04:06:30 PM »
When one refers to a bullet as being "overstabilized" what is being referred to is the phenomenon known as gyroscopic precession.  If anyone here has ever played with a top, gyroscopic precession can clearly be seen when the top is first spun and is spinning at its fastest.  In the beginning, the fast spinning top cants to one side.  As the spin rate slows, the top balances out and spins nearly vertically.  Now, think of a fast spinning bullet as it leaves a rifle barrel.  If the bullet is "overstabilized"  it flies with the point slightly canted upward, as if it is pulling a wheelie.  As the rate of bullet spin slows, the bullet will "lay down" and fly more horizontally.  In practical terms, what this means is that lighter bullets in "fast twist" rifle barrels will often group poorly at shorter ranges, but will group nicely at longer ranges.  That is one good reason to check your groups at distances other than 100 yards.  Rifle and bullet combinations that are optimized for long range frequently behave in this manner.  I have heard it said that such bullet behavior is frequently encountered in the .50 BMG community.