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Author Topic: unknowen chamber, how do i find out?  (Read 854 times)

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Offline mstake

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unknowen chamber, how do i find out?
« on: September 04, 2007, 01:52:29 AM »
I just got a rifle over the weekend and it was custom made from the ground up. I need to find how to messure the chamber or mock it up and see what round it was made for. It was made the a older man back in the late 60s and it seems to be a 22 cal. the bolt face is the size of a 223 but the 223rem will not chamber. I there any way i can make a mold or something just to get me on the right track. I am thinking it maybe a 22 hornet.
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Offline Rangr44

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Re: unknowen chamber, how do i find out?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2007, 02:28:27 AM »
Cerrosafe is the gold standard, for making chamber casts.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=384&st=cerrosafe&s=
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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: unknowen chamber, how do i find out?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2007, 11:46:24 AM »
Just about any smith can make a cerrosage casting for you and let you know in short order. It may even be a wildcat of some sort.  Were there any dies with the rifle? 
Even if its custom "from the ground up", it should be etched on the barrel or receiver what it is. 
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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: unknowen chamber, how do i find out?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2007, 11:52:28 AM »
Ranger44 is correct. Make your cast then measure it carefully. Compare the measurements to the dimensions in a good loading book. Hopefully it is a standard cartridge. If it does not match anything, then you will have to surf the Internet to find out what it is. I am betting a 222 Remington, they have a head size the same as a 223 (the 223 was spun off of the 222) ans is a little shorter with a longer neck. They were very popular in the 60's, many custom guns were made on that cartridge. If it is a 222 Rem then you have a fine varmint gun. Good luck to you, and let us know what you find out. ;D
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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: unknowen chamber, how do i find out?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2007, 12:14:01 PM »
A barrel is usually marked some where. The last one I got was SS Shilen 221 Fire Ball barrel. It was marked on the camber end of the barrel. Other than that there is no marking any where, not even Shilen. It was a pre-chambered barrel. If a barrel blank was bought and done by a gunsmith or someone did it them selves, there may be no markings at all. I not sure I would trust a marking on an unknown gun any way. It could have be cambered for a different cartridge than the one marked. A 221 Fireball into a 222 Remington or turned to a 223 for instance. ;)
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Online Graybeard

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Re: unknowen chamber, how do i find out?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2007, 12:24:43 PM »
No gunsmith worthy of the title would chamber a rifle and fail to mark the chambering on it somewhere normally in a fairly easy to see location.
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Offline mstake

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Re: unknowen chamber, how do i find out?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2007, 02:10:05 AM »
Well here is what i have come up with so far. There is no marking on the barrel. The bolt face mic .380inch. measuring around the head was .375 just below the head. At the shoulder it measured .360 and the OACL was around 1.400. the only 2 that i could fine close was 218 bee and 221 fireball. but the head on the 218 bee is to big for it to fit in the bolt face. It looks like a shortend 223 but to short to be a 222.
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Offline Rangr44

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Re: unknowen chamber, how do i find out?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2007, 03:01:00 AM »
The .221 Fireball case shares the same case head dimensions as the commercial .223 Remington and military 5.56x45mm cartridges. (0.375") - So, I would first check that the action length, etc, would take it, then run a .223 chambering reamer in there to clean out the unknown & have done with it.
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Offline 30-06man

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Re: unknowen chamber, how do i find out?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2007, 01:26:09 PM »
it may be a custom round as well.
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Offline mstake

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Re: unknowen chamber, how do i find out?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2007, 01:57:55 AM »
I have found on the under side of the barrel it has the name "Jaeger" stamped on it. i have never heard of them. did a search and all i came up with is black powder stuff.
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Offline Rangr44

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Re: unknowen chamber, how do i find out?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2007, 04:58:06 AM »
Paul Jaeger ran a custom gunsmithing concern, staffed by German gunsmiths, in PA in the 1950's, IIRC.

They made shooting accessories, custom boltguns, and even some .375 H&H barrels for early 20ga Ruger O/U shotguns. I'm sure they made too many more things to list here.
 
Several current, nationally renown, custom gun maker's roots go back to the Jaeger firm.

For a similar-type firm, in business today - look at New England Custom Gun.
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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: unknowen chamber, how do i find out?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2007, 09:31:20 AM »
mstake - You have described a 221 Fire Ball. OACL is 1.400" Head diameter is .378" (same as a 223 or 222 Rem) diameter at the shoulder is .361"; Diameter just ahead of the rim (web) is .376". The neck length on a 221 FB is the same (.203") as a .223, shorter than a 222 neck. I looks like you have a 221 FB to me. The 221 FB was brought out by Remington in 1962 in their XP-100 pistol (looked like a Flash Gordon thingy to me at the time). I have a couple of the 221 FB in rifle length barrels, and I like them. You will find it to be very accurate. Mine shoot well with IMR 4198, RL 7 and Lil'Gun for lighter bullets. 50 Grain bullet in 223 is approximately 3300 FPS; 222 - 3100 fps; 221 FB - 2900 fps; 22 Hornet - 2300fps just to give an idea what it will do. If you do not want the 221 FB your options are a 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 222 Rem Mag, all are fine choices although the 223 is by far the most popular one. Of course you could not tell everyone you have some thing different. Good luck to you. ;D
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