243 carbine??

[hillsider69]

I am getting a new243 for use in woods and shooting out to about 250yards. Target is row deer(the size of a goat) in Scotland. It will have a sound moderator on when not in real tight situations. Bullet mass most likely 80-100.
What should be the shortest barrel to go for?

[flintlock]

I wouldn't go shorter than 20 inches, my brother has a Model 7 in 7mm-08 and I just don't like it, seems like a toy to me...

Personally, I prefer 22-24 inch barrels...

[WD242]

I own two Remington M-7's. One stainless in 308 (20") and a 6MM with an 18 1/2". I bought the 6MM back in the 1980"s when Remington first brought them out. I've killed several deer with it using Remington's 100 gr. Biggest deer I've killed here in the Adirondacks was with the 6MM. I carry the 308 alot because it's SS/Synthetic stock, but still carry the 6MM. All deer killed have been one shot and farthest tracking was 40 yds.  I like the .243 cal alot.

[Brithunter]

I am getting a new243 for use in woods and shooting out to about 250yards. Target is row deer(the size of a goat) in Scotland. It will have a sound moderator on when not in real tight situations. Bullet mass most likely 80-100.
What should be the shortest barrel to go for?

    Hmmm firstly they are Roe Deer.

    Secondly is there a reason for choosing the .243? or are the Police forcing you to go that route?

     Thirdly.... if you are only after Roe as a quarry then have you considered using a .22 Centerfire? as they are legal in Scotland.

      Also are you aware of the laws governing the hunting of Deer in the UK? another thing is get down to the newsagent and get last weeks Shooting Times as Bruce Potts does a good artricle on the effect of shorting barrels, he use a .308 and .223 for his tests.

[saltydog]

18 1/2 would be the shortest I would go - however nothing wrong with a basic 22 incher. Not sure what you mean by sound moderator - you would have to have a threaded barrel for a silencer.  The bullet choice and optics are more important than rifle barrel length. This is a specific purpose hunt so the 243 will give you plenty of power for your stated quary. Make sure you buy ammunition designed for light - light skinned game as these guys are really delicate. Practice shooting from a sitting position on rolling hillsides at targets 300 yards away until you are proficent. Brush up on your hunting decorum and bring only top quality clothing and gear as you will be judged by it.

[jvs]

Full powder burn is what should dictate the minimum length of your barrel.  You certainly don't want a barrel that is that short that all of your powder isn't burning until after the bullet leaves the barrel.  If you hand load, you can pretty much control it.  If you will be shooting factory loads, then a minimum barrel length will be needed or it could adversely affect accuracy.

As most powders in factory rifle loads are burned up in the first 12 to 16 inches of barrel, a 18½ to 20 inch barrel should be ok for most non-magnum calibers and loads.

As long as you realize that a shorter barrel means less velocity, you will do fine.

And from the looks of it, people in the UK still have to jump through hoops just to buy firearms and go Hunting or Target Shooting.  Still the battle between the have's and have not's.  With Control Freaks in command of Personal Freedoms and choices and the right to protect yourself and your property.

In the United States he would be able to buy a .243 just because he wanted to hang one on his Living Room Wall or keep it in the corner of a closet, and no other reason.  (He could do that with a .50 BMG too)

I know it is off topic, but why shouldn't he be able to buy what he wants, without a bunch of busy-bodies dictating to him and throwing a Hissy Fit.   

I really don't care how they do things in the UK, as long as it stays there.  But with all of the English Accents on U.S. TV lately, it is getting hard to believe they aren't infiltrating our Core.

[Rangr44]

JMO, but the .243 Win is much too powerful for Roe Deer - a .222 or .223 much better suited, both power & noise-wise.

If you're already locked in to the .243, via purchase or license, you might consider reloading it - if the method is available to you in UK.

You're gonna need the moderator/silencer all the time, since the .243's are really loud, especially in a short barrel.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

         In the UK because of the 1968 Deer Act using a .222 or .223 for shooting Deer is illegal in all the UK except in Scotland where they can use be for shooting Roe deer only. Bullet must be of minimum 50 Grains weight and velocity must exceed 2450 fps and produce a minimum of 1100 ft lbs on muzzle energy. All other deer require minimum calibre of .240" and 1700 ft lbs minimum energy. Scotland further complicates things by also insisiting on a minimum bullet weight of 100 grains and velocity of at least 2450 fps.

     Firearms licensing was brought into law as the Goverment was frightened of a revolt like that happened in Russia in 1917. The people were promised a Land fit for Heroes. However they came back to a country feeling the pich due to the high cost of the war and a looming depression.

    Now as too this :-

but the .243 Win is much too powerful for Roe Deer - a .222 or .223 much better suited, both power & noise-wise.

    Really ? I use 6.5x55, .270 Win, 7x57, .308 Win, .303 British and .30-30 win none of which I have found to be "Too Powerful" I also use the same rifles and cartridges on Muntjac Deer which are even smaller than Roe :-


The rifle is a 30-30 bolt action.


A pair of Muntjac


A Muntjac  with the same 30-30 rifle. Oh yes it is fully grown!

    You can see that neither Deer are torn up by using such powerful cartridges. I use handloads using Hornady 130 Grn spire points at a velocity of around 2700 fps.

[deltecs]

Here's my 2 cents.  I almost exclusively use a Ruger International old style M77 with an 18 1/2" barrel and 100 gr Sierra BT Gameking bullets for Sitka Black Tailed deer in Alaska.  Where I live in Prince William Sound, the deer are not all that large and sometimes shot over 250 yds across open fields.  I've never had one lost and due the more frangible nature of Sierra bullets than premium brands, the deer do not travel far at all.  Even on shoulder shots the meat isn't too blood shot.  I handload 42 grs of IMR 4350 behind the Sierra bullet and accuracy is outstanding.  A quarter completely covers all the holes in a 5 shot string at 100 meters.  All this from a factory Mannlicher style stock and an 18 1/2" factory barrel.  Loaded, military style sling, 1x4 Vari-X II scope, the rifle weighs in at slightly over 8 lbs.  Does not feel like a toy at all.  The balance is excellent compared to a Remington.  On heavier game, I use Nosler Partitions.  These are dynamite on caribou.

[AJAX]

Hi All,

         In the UK because of the 1968 Deer Act using a .222 or .223 for shooting Deer is illegal in all the UK except in Scotland where they can use be for shooting Roe deer only. Bullet must be of minimum 50 Grains weight and velocity must exceed 2450 fps and produce a minimum of 1100 ft lbs on muzzle energy. All other deer require minimum calibre of .240" and 1700 ft lbs minimum energy. Scotland further complicates things by also insisiting on a minimum bullet weight of 100 grains and velocity of at least 2450 fps.

     Firearms licensing was brought into law as the Goverment was frightened of a revolt like that happened in Russia in 1917. The people were promised a Land fit for Heroes. However they came back to a country feeling the pich due to the high cost of the war and a looming depression.

    Now as too this :-

but the .243 Win is much too powerful for Roe Deer - a .222 or .223 much better suited, both power & noise-wise.

    Really ? I use 6.5x55, .270 Win, 7x57, .308 Win, .303 British and .30-30 win none of which I have found to be "Too Powerful" I also use the same rifles and cartridges on Muntjac Deer which are even smaller than Roe :-


The rifle is a 30-30 bolt action.


A pair of Muntjac


A Muntjac  with the same 30-30 rifle. Oh yes it is fully grown!

    You can see that neither Deer are torn up by using such powerful cartridges. I use handloads using Hornady 130 Grn spire points at a velocity of around 2700 fps.

Point of clarification.  Is the bolt gun actually a 30-30 (with a rim) and not a 30-06 (a longer, rimless case from which the .308 was derived)?  If indeed a 30-30, is it a custom job or a brand folks on this side of the pond are unfamiliar with?

[Brithunter]

Yep it's 30-30 Winchester Rimmed made by a husband and wife team in Suffolk England. No I didn't order it but stumbled across it at one of the Bisley gun fairs and did a deal for it. Due to the problems with getting it to feed reliably they said that they would nto make another like it. So it's the only one like it. Rather than custom it's a Bespoke rifle, made to order and to the customers wishes from a range of options.






Seen here with Wiinchester 150 Grn Silver tips


     While it does not like the Winchester factory ammo it does like the load I also stumbled onto working from a Petersen's Rifle shooter article about "Souping Up the Ole 30-30" using H335 powder and Hornady 130 Grain spire points it groups like this:-




This last photo was of the sight adjustment target. It was shooting high, I then adjusted POI lower but over did it then got the last two about right.

   The barrel is tightly bedded into the walnut stock and there is no plastic other bedding compoud used just carefully fitted wood!

[dw06]

Very nice looking rifle!Those muntjac sure are fat little bugers.Nothing wrong with an 18.5 inch 243,but I like at least a 20 inch mainly for better balance.JMO.
But hey that 30-30 does just fine,and I'd be tempted to load some pointed spitzers and have at it!

[Brithunter]

Ahhh the Doe was heavily pregnant. Due to the fact that Muntjac breed all year the only way to make sure that any offspring is old enough to fend for itself is to shoot Does that are heavily pregnant as she will be chasing off the youngster just before birth anyway and after giving birth the Doe will be mated again within a week or so. Otherwise you ahve to shoot young Does which have not begun to produce yet. I found this the hardest part learning to tell the age of the Does and yes Doe must be shot to control the numbers. In fact they are only just talking about having seasons for Muntjac as presently there are none. There are fine eating though, a fine grain flesh with little fat and it sure is tasty.

[poncaguy]

I cut my Stevens 200 7-08 to 18 1'2". Improved accuracy and very handy rifle now. I really like it.

[hillsider69]

I should have come back on this a while ago, sorry, but we have had a major illness of one family member and the death of an other.

First, I am in Scotland and use a 22-250 55gn  psp's (x1 rated) in a Tikka m590. I aim at the aorta and 19/20 are bang flops, even if it does bugger the far side (I am not after the meat as my first point but protecting my woodlands).
Yes, England (and Wales?) now allow 22 cf's to be used on small deer as we have done for years: IMO they are much more deadly than larger lumps of lead that pass thru' and leave the animal moving. I have no dog (well 2 but no "B" good around guns) so finding a runner in scrub can be a problem.

The problem with 22-250 is wind drift. Had a 243 before. Yes, bigger bang, but at the moment I have no can on it and will with the new gun.

I have now ordered a custom scout 243 (from the USA) 20 inch tube(1:9 twist); interchangeable 'scope and red dot sight for close up as part of my work is also on the move thru pole stage growth trees and very fast snap shots at 20 -50 yards are needed. Laminated sand/epoxy stock. All stainless black coated, black can on the front. I will be using fast fragmenting ammo SO ANY PROPOSALS PLEASE??
Maybe not what many of you would like, but after lots of talking and thinking, I feel it will fit my bill. When its here and working I'll let you know.

Regarding who should have guns etc. Last year we were in Utah when the Trolley Sq shootings took place. I was in Cabela's a few days later and the sales staff there were even getting worried about the number and type of people that were buying hand guns and had no idea how to use them or do so with safety: just panic! Yes we should be able to buy guns: and to clarify for you folk in the USA. In the UK (unless you are a known mental case or have done over 6 months in jail, and then it is not an automatic ban), you have a RIGHT TO BUY, OWN AND USE AS MANY (WITH IN REASON WHATEVER THAT IS) SHOT GUNS AS YOU LIKE. To own / use a rifle then you need to show need.

 That said, UK gun crime is going up and up. It may not be politically correct but its nearly all black on black youths that have nothing better to do and have been failed by and fail the education system. Likewise the number of fatal stabbings. We have gone soft on them. Part of the problem is our police are too busy dealing with night-time drunks that get off too easy. Maybe we do need a bit of sharia law to help!
  TRAINING. As a last point. I think that the UK is about the last place in Europe that you can get a gun or hunt without formal training (I have had it). What do you think about that?

[deltecs]

Formal training?  By whom, the government?  I for one, do not want to see the government training me for personal protection or hunting.   Too many bureaucrats whose personal anti firearms position, would taint the training process.  Training or firearms safety classes in high school would be fine with me.  I think it should be taught in every school.  First, that the individual has a right to own, carry, and possess a firearm according to the 2nd Amendment and second, our duties and rights under law, in its use.  Third would be the safety concern.  Part of UK's problem and becoming more and more prevalent in the US, is the politically correct interpretation of liberal societal standards outside of law.  The concept of society's welfare being more important than individual rights, has contributed to the lower moral values and increase in crime.  It is always somebody else,s fault for my wrong doing according to this concept, so there is no individual responsibility.  Punishment is predicated on rehabilitation, not for the crime.  That's what I think about that.