Author Topic: 375 H&H (Read 2087 times)

jedd · « **on:** August 19, 2007, 05:56:14 AM »

Can this be done in a Handi rifle?
Thanks

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** August 19, 2007, 05:59:13 AM »

Sorry, no, there's too much case head thrust for any of the magnum rifle chamberings. If you want a big bore, get a .444 Marlin, .45-70 or 500 S&W. Or have a 38-55 rechambered and rebored to 405 Winchester.

Tim

jedd · « **Reply #2 on:** August 19, 2007, 06:04:37 AM »

Thanks for the quick reply. Oregunsmithing said he would do one in 375 Ruger but the H&H wouldn't extract well with the belt. Maybe either shouldn't be done. I am looking for a brown bear cartridge if that helps.
Thanks again

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** August 19, 2007, 06:54:15 AM »

I'm very surprised Wayne said he'd do a 375 Ruger, he's apprehensive about doing a 460S&W which has a smaller case head and about the same pressure as the 375 H&H. The belt shouldn't be a problem, the Handi is factory available in 450 Marlin which has a belt, and I had a 300WSM that ejected fine, even with the rebated rim, but I wasn't able to equal 30-06 velocities without too much frame flex, so the barrel underlug became a donor part for another project.

Tim

nomosendero · « **Reply #4 on:** August 19, 2007, 07:07:34 AM »

After a recent event, my choice is to be a spectator only in regards to possible Handi rifle chamberings, but the entertainment factor
makes reading these threads a worthwhile & facinating endeavor.

Zachary · « **Reply #5 on:** August 19, 2007, 07:16:10 AM »

Well, you have certainly opened the door and aroused our curiosity with your "recent event." Do you care to share?

Zachary

nomosendero · « **Reply #6 on:** August 19, 2007, 07:42:57 AM »

Zach, I would rather not pull up these old threads & the sparks that occur & I am talking about old discussions here. I see there is no need because no matter what facts are presented,this belted mag or larger than 06' size mag stuff will roll around every month or so, sometimes more. Therefore it is a waste of time to discuss logically & that's all I want to say about it, I only want to mention that I am entertained & that's worth something.

handirifle · « **Reply #7 on:** August 19, 2007, 08:04:44 AM »

Quote from: jedd on August 19, 2007, 06:04:37 AM

Thanks for the quick reply. Oregunsmithing said he would do one in 375 Ruger but the H&H wouldn't extract well with the belt. Maybe either shouldn't be done. I am looking for a brown bear cartridge if that helps.
Thanks again

.
If you're looking for better performance in the Handi frame, I think taking a 25-06 barrel to a 338-06 is about top level for a long range powerhouse. The 338-06 will easily give 300WM velocities with the 180gr and probably with the 200's as well. It's only 100-200 below the 338WM with just about all loads.

A 250gr barnes TSX at 2500-2600 would most likely be ample bear meds out to 200yds. What I read most Borwn Bear guides won't let you shoot much further than that anyway.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 19, 2007, 08:35:27 AM »

Quote from: handirifle on August 19, 2007, 08:04:44 AM

Quote from: jedd on August 19, 2007, 06:04:37 AM
Thanks for the quick reply. Oregunsmithing said he would do one in 375 Ruger but the H&H wouldn't extract well with the belt. Maybe either shouldn't be done. I am looking for a brown bear cartridge if that helps.
Thanks again

.
If you're looking for better performance in the Handi frame, I think taking a 25-06 barrel to a 338-06 is about top level for a long range powerhouse. The 338-06 will easily give 300WM velocities with the 180gr and probably with the 200's as well. It's only 100-200 below the 338WM with just about all loads.

A 250gr barnes TSX at 2500-2600 would most likely be ample bear meds out to 200yds. What I read most Borwn Bear guides won't let you shoot much further than that anyway.

It will...and would be my choice as well...

But...if your wanting a 375 diameter bullet with a Handi frame...ask Wayne about a 375-06 He will do one of these for ya...The 375 Ruger will be too much I am afraid...

Mac

greg916 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 19, 2007, 11:00:39 AM »

Check Stimpy's thread on his next rechamber. The 378GNR looks interesting. Is it doable?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** August 19, 2007, 11:15:52 AM »

The 378GNR would probably work fine in an extractor barrel, but I get stuck brass in the 405 Winchester ejector barrel at just over 2425fps with 300gr bullets in a 28" barrel.

Tim

http://www.reedercustomguns.com/information/GNR_cartridges.htm

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 19, 2007, 11:21:07 AM »

greg916

I think the 378 GNR would be pushing the Handi to its limits even with it based on the 405 case , maybe not so much in pressure but recoil .

stimpy

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** August 19, 2007, 11:58:24 AM »

Since the 378GNR is popular for use in the G2 Contender, it should be fine in a Handi, recoil or pressure wise.

Reeder's use of the Bertram brass is an important point in his loads tho, I've been wanting to try some of the Jamison 405 brass, but it's still not available, Bertram is hard to find as well, if Reeder bought 10,000 pieces of it, he may well have cleaned it out for years to come if they only run it occasionally!! Reeder also has a 378GNR magnum load that's suitable only in the Encore which may or may not be ok in a Handi, the 405 Win has a case head of .462" compared to .470" for the 30-06 family of cartridges.

Tim

Quote

378 GNR™

The 378 GNR™ has long been Gary Reeder's favorite African hunting caliber, and for good reason. In his hands and many of his customers, this caliber has taken elephants, cape buffalo, elk, kudu, eland, gemsbock, and many other smaller species.

The loads I developed for this round in 1997 ran 270 grain bullets at about 2000 fps. Two developments have allowed a significant upgrade in performance. First, Thompson Center now offers the G2 and Encore frames, which can handle higher pressures than the original Contender. Second, I ordered 10,000 pieces of very strong, properly headstamped brass to be able to take advantage of the increased frame strength.

The Bertram's brass that's previously been the only option available for this cartridge started sticking in the chamber at about 47-48kpsi in my 1997 load development. The new brass can handle all the pressure an Encore can stand; I've taken it up to 64kpsi and had it still fall out of the chamber (my Magnum ammo is not loaded this high). The G2 load now runs 2100 fps with a 270 grain bullet. Gary took all his game on his 2004 Africa hunt with this load. No bullets were recovered; all achieved full penetration.

The Encore-only, 378 GNR™ Magnum load streaks along at 2300 fps, which is only 100 fps less than I got out of the 375 H&H that I worked up loads for a few years back. This load delivers 2000 foot pounds of energy at 250 yards, well in excess of most people's opinion of the power needed for effectively killing elk-sized animals.

While there are many options of high performance bullets engineered for high velocity in .375 caliber, the Hornady 270 Spire Point has a long history of excellent performance at these velocities and is what we use in the 378 GNR™.

The Nosler 260 Grain Accubond™ is featured in the 378 GNR Magnum. See the extensive testing that resulted in this choice under the "Observations of a Handgun Hunter" section of this website.

http://www.cartridgeperformance.com/history.htm

Foggy · « **Reply #13 on:** August 19, 2007, 02:25:20 PM »

How about a 375 Hawk/Scovill . Everything you want in a 375 and 06 cases. there's plenty of load data and you can buy brass with the proper head stamp just a thought

Foggy

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** August 19, 2007, 03:41:45 PM »

The 375 Hawk/skovill is another that should work, Zhat won't rechamber a Handi barrel tho, so you'd have to rent a reamer from Fred at 4D, Quality Cartridge makes brass for it, but I think you'd have to have custom dies made or buy from Zhat for $174. Another option would be the 375 Whelen or 375-06 as Mac suggested.

Tim

http://www.4-dproducts.com/display.php?group=Rifle+Calibers&PHPSESSID=79201931d295d189b1df3c18c3b00d11

http://www.z-hat.com/Handloader166.htm

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=861487&t=11082005

jedd · « **Reply #15 on:** August 19, 2007, 07:27:49 PM »

Thanks for all the info. I have decided to go with an encore. I don't want a wildcat and the encore is chambered for the H&H. I just don't like the looks of them. Oh well.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** August 19, 2007, 07:38:18 PM »

I'm not fond of the regular Encore stock either, but the thumbhole Prohunter isn't bad looking IMO, I have the 28" fluted SS 375H&H PH barrel on a standard Encore frame, shoots very well with 270gr Hornadys and a max load of N160.

Tim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 19, 2007, 07:48:43 PM »

F.W.I.W. they also have the new 375 Ruger in a pro-hunter configuration as well...

http://www.eabco.com/prohunter.htm

Mac

MGMorden · « **Reply #18 on:** August 21, 2007, 03:42:01 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on August 19, 2007, 08:35:27 AM

But...if your wanting a 375 diameter bullet with a Handi frame...ask Wayne about a 375-06 He will do one of these for ya...The 375 Ruger will be too much I am afraid...

One interesting note I read on .375-06 (aka .375 Whelen), was that it is almost required in this case to go for the Ackley Improved version, not for any extra case capacity, but because the regular .375-06's shoulder is angled in such a way that the cartridge can barely headspace. The AI version is supposed to eliminate this problem.

Just be prepared to pay a nice little chunk of change for the reloading dies (whether you use the regular or AI version). They aren't cheap

.

Mike

bajabill · « **Reply #19 on:** August 21, 2007, 06:09:51 AM »

I will have to invoke my state nickname for my opinion on the 375-06.

SHOW ME

After dealing with the 35 whelen, you are going to have to produce good results with your good intentions for me to be a believer.
Hope it works for anyone attempting it.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 21, 2007, 07:32:24 AM »

Quote from: MGMorden on August 21, 2007, 03:42:01 AM

Quote from: Mac11700 on August 19, 2007, 08:35:27 AM
But...if your wanting a 375 diameter bullet with a Handi frame...ask Wayne about a 375-06 He will do one of these for ya...The 375 Ruger will be too much I am afraid...

One interesting note I read on .375-06 (aka .375 Whelen), was that it is almost required in this case to go for the Ackley Improved version, not for any extra case capacity, but because the regular .375-06's shoulder is angled in such a way that the cartridge can barely headspace. The AI version is supposed to eliminate this problem.

Just be prepared to pay a nice little chunk of change for the reloading dies (whether you use the regular or AI version). They aren't cheap .

Mike

No... custom dies aren't cheap .....but is what you need when doing custom chambers..Hornady will make a set for you for $109.00 and a couple of your fired cases...or a print of your reamer spec's..You can go the full custom route too if you like...and have your dies cut by your smith when he does your chamber work...http://newlonprecision.com...Body dies are $29.00 and the sizing dies are $49...and the bullet seating dies are $59.00 each. FWIW a good set of regular caliber bushing dies aren't cheap either

Mac

BTW Bill...I live in Missouri too...

BANG_OW · « **Reply #21 on:** August 21, 2007, 09:00:28 AM »

Mac and Bill,
I too live in Missouri, but am in self-imposed exile. I told my wife to bring my leather jacket when she comes to visit at the end of the month as it is chilly in Portland in the morning, she found little humor in my request. My guess is that it is still hott'rn blue blazes in St. Louis.
Don

nomosendero · « **Reply #22 on:** August 21, 2007, 03:05:32 PM »

Quote from: BANG_OW on August 21, 2007, 09:00:28 AM

Mac and Bill,
I too live in Missouri, but am in self-imposed exile. I told my wife to bring my leather jacket when she comes to visit at the end of the month as it is chilly in Portland in the morning, she found little humor in my request. My guess is that it is still hott'rn blue blazes in St. Louis.
Don

Don, you know how to rub it in, but it is good to hear things are still going well up there.

What we have to look forward to here in AR. is the temp like MO has now, but lasting longer!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 21, 2007, 06:34:46 PM »

Quote from: BANG_OW on August 21, 2007, 09:00:28 AM

Mac and Bill,
I too live in Missouri, but am in self-imposed exile. I told my wife to bring my leather jacket when she comes to visit at the end of the month as it is chilly in Portland in the morning, she found little humor in my request. My guess is that it is still hott'rn blue blazes in St. Louis.
Don

It's hot this week with high humidity...but nothing like last week...I had to walk 5 blocks to our lodge with my tools which is for some of our patients families...who choose to stay for several nights close by the patients...and the road temperature was 160 degrees...and the side walk was right at 140 degrees...The air temp there was 109...so it was miserable to say the least...This week...it is a little cooler and shouldn't go over 99 degrees...

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** August 21, 2007, 06:45:27 PM »

Man, you're making me sweat just thinkin about those temps, it's a nice cool 65º with a slight breeze now, spose to be 75º or so and partly cloudy at the range tomorrow!!

Tim

bajabill · « **Reply #25 on:** August 22, 2007, 06:26:55 AM »

these are the days invented for chronoghraphing loads

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** August 22, 2007, 12:15:47 PM »

The .375 JDJ would be my choice.

handirifle · « **Reply #27 on:** August 22, 2007, 05:48:52 PM »

Mac with those temps we could be neighbors.

The reason I suggested the 338-06 is because it's NOT a wildcat. But it's not a 375 either. I also vote on the 375/444, since JD says he will NOT rechamber a handi, doesn't like them I guess. He told me that in an email some time back.

The 375/444 is a wildcat, but just slightly diff than the JDJ.

Fred M · « **Reply #28 on:** August 22, 2007, 06:19:59 PM »

Swampman
Welcome back. Yes the 375 JDJ is a good choice. I have a 375 Winchester and thought about reaming it out to 375 JDJ but the rifle is such a good schooter
shooting three shots into one hole at 50yards I hate to disturb it.

Besides I hardly need or can use all that extra power. I have my bases
covered when I get my new 9.3x74R.

Mac
We had a few days when we got 100F (38C) in the house had to move into
the basement to sleep. We are not used to this kind of heat.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #29 on:** August 22, 2007, 06:26:43 PM »

I hear ya...the 338-06 A-Square is a awesome cartridge...and if a person can swing investing in having Wayne redo a 25-06 into one...it is well worth the money...I had mine out just a little while ago fon....err...cleaning it...and am looking forward to some cooler temps to shoot it some more...this time around will be the 185 Triple shocks 200 grain Speer SP's & 200 grain CT Silver BT's 200 grain North Forks...215 Sierra's SBT's...Most is loaded and ready to go...The 180 grain Accubonds at 3050fps is my whitetail hammer

Fred...It's typical Mid Western weather for us...but for you guys up there it's gotta be bad...

Mac