"Goatsucker"

[Ray Ford]

As I have mentioned in other posts in other places, we have a place in Alfalfa County, Oklahoma.  We have a main farm house and a double-wide.  My wife's niece lives in the double-wide.  She has had all kinds of wilf life encounters:  Turkey on her front patio/porch eating her cat and dog feed, Raccoons enjoying the same repast, a 'coon-vs.-cat fight in her living room, Pheasants in the yard...

Her husband's son spent the summer with her--him and his dog.  A few days ago, he walked out into the wheat field with his dog so that the dog could run.  He observed an animal that he did not recognize emerge from a window in the barn.  The strange animal, he said, walked within a few feet of him and was definitely not a 'coon or a 'possum or anything else that he  had ever seen.  (He, by-the-way, is a high school senior and an experienced hunter.) He described it as having a long tail and a hyena-like face.  It was about the size, he said, of his Brittany Spanial.  It was, he said, very thin: "You could see every bone in its body."

Curious about the animal, he went on the internet and identified it as a Chupacabra--a "goatsucker."  He told me that he learned that they were native to Mexico and had been seen a few times in Texas, a smaller number of times in Oklahoma, and once in Kansas.  (Alfalfa County is close to Kansas.)

Some people south of our place have reported losing goats to what they thought was a cougar.  It might have been the Chupacabra!

[NONYA]

Probably migrated north through the chupacabra underground railroad to feed on he plentiful BF blood in your area,cant blame the lil SOBs the Mexican govt probably regulates the hell out of their BF so that the chupaluppas cant get a decent meal.Some very active imaginations in your zip code Ray,have they tested the ground water for arsenic?

[Ray Ford]

Nonya,

You should probably keep your eyes, and maybe nose and ears, open.  They'll eventually reach Montana.  It is almost a straight shot north from Oklahoma--a little to the west.

If the water gets too bad down here, I may move up and settle on one of those beautiful lakes or streams that we saw when I passed through Montana.  If that happens, maybe we could get together and swap stories.

[NONYA]

Better start smugglin drugs Ray,even the Montana natives that have worked their whole lives here cant afford a lil piece of land,nevermind near a lake or stream,the influx of wealthy out of staters have raised property prices so high its rediculous.My boss is selling 2 bedroom condos on Hauser lake that are connected to other condos (no privacy) for $850,000 and the price is going up for every one he sells.

[Cecil]

Ray , I looked up picture's on the net of Chupacabra and I have seen 2 that look like this in Oklahoma my take was a coyote with a bad case of mange, they were almost completely hair less.

[Graybeard]

I know they MUST exist cuz I saw a movie about them on the SCI-FI channel.

[Ray Ford]

Cecil and Graybeard,

We found a picture of one--It had been shot!--on the internet.  It appeared to be almost hairless, and, at first glance, it did appear to be a hairless Coyote, but it wasn't.  (I sometimes do run-on sentences just to spite my high school English teachers. That last one has three main clauses--complete with subject and verb.) The ears were huge, the tail was very long, and, although it was crumpled up, the hind legs looked to be disportionately long.  It appeared to be white. I passed the picture on to a retired zoologist who is researching the matter.  Remarkedly, he had never heard or seen of the animal.

Our niece's stepson, the one who reported the sighting on our farm, said that it appeared to have no fear of him and passed within a few feet of where he was standing.  I have been told that that lack of fear of man is characteristic of them.

I'll be back at the farm in a few days.  I'm going to look around--especially in the barn.  That barn has not been used in several years and scarcely anyone has been in it recently.  A critter might very well have taken up abode there.  It is partially full of straw and would be a warm place for a hairless animal to sleep.  While I'll go prepared to kill something, I'll not necessarily do so--not unless it is necessary.  May take my camera.

[Ray Ford]

I know they MUST exist cuz I saw a movie about them on the SCI-FI channel.

Graybeard,

The SCI-FI channel was an appropriate place to see Chupacabras.  As I mentioned in the above post, I gave the matter over to a zoology professor that I know.  He researched it, and came back to me with this answer:  "Chupacabras are a mythical animal in the same category as Yetis."  If he is right, Nonya's characteristic skepticism was on target.

I still have one question left, what was it that the boy saw emerge from my barn?  And what kind of critter was it that was in the picture printed off the internet?  And why did the critter in that picture match the description provided by Seth--the boy who saw what came through the barn window?

I'm not a person who habitually does internet searches/research, but, just for fun, I typed in "Chupacabra" and hit Google's search.  They have 42,000 or so entries--which I didn't read.  That was enough in itself to validate my zoologist's statement that they are on a par with Bigfeet.

[SHOOTALL]

more illegals from south of the border ! Will it ever stop ?

[Ray Ford]

This weekend, I checked out my barn up in Alfalfa County--and something HAD been bedding down in the old straw bales left therein from several years back.  I saw no strange animals.

My son, who is sometimes a little bit irreverent and is a friend of the zoologist who put Chupacabras in the category of mythological animals like Yetis, suggested that Chupacabras are Bigfeet's dogs.  If so, where you see a Chupacabra, you might see....  Naw!

[Ray Ford]

While at our farm this past weekend, I had a conversation with my wife's niece.  It was her stepson, Seth, who saw the strange animal emerge from our unused barn.  She stated, "I don't know what he saw, but he was pale when he returned to the house."

[Mikey]

A couple of weeks to a month ago there was an article in our local paper about someone who had found/shot, whatever, one of the 'goatsuckers' down in Texas.  A Veterinarian was shown holding the head of one - it was hairless but very dog/coyote like and she gave her opinion that it could easily be a mutated strain of coyote or dog.  She was supposed to be sending 'parts' for analysis.

She also mentioned that some canine predators prefer to 'lap the blood' of some of their kills first rather than devour the carcass which they may do later if not disturbed (by the farmer, etc.), hence 'goatsucker' or 'bloodsucker'. 

I have seen dogs and coyotes with mange and none of them were completely hairless or looked healthy.  So who knows, maybe it's a mutant strain that migrated up from tropical climates and is evolving into a colder weather critter and heading toward Canada, stopping along the way to snack.  Interesting enough is that Possums are also evolving and migrating further north than ever before - these are warm climate critters who are evolving to become more resiliant to the colder weather.  You often see them on the roads - you know, the former, late, post or ex,- attack possums that try stopping your fast moving vehicle at night.  Tough crowd, high mortality rate but resiliant.  Just a thought.  Mikey.

[SHOOTALL]

I saw a picture of a Chinese hairless dog once !
wouldn't use the word healthy to describe it though !

[Cecil]

probably wouldn't last there tho they would eat it

[~Ace~]

Lots of "Chupacabra" pics on the net, All are of Yotes with advanced cases of Mange...

[Ray Ford]

Mikey,

I have been thinking over the past few days that the critters responsible for Chupacabra reports could very well be Coyote-Dog hybrids.  Coyotes crossed with the right dogs could, the way genes sometimes fall, produce some strange looking animals.  I remember seeing, when I was a child, a stuffed Coyote-Dog cross in the wildlife exhibit at a county fair.  It was strange looking: tall and slender with a short but thick black coat. 

Coyotes will often kill domestic dogs and eat them, but they will also often interbreed with them.  I have posted elsewhere on this subject.  Some people do not believe that there are very many purebred Coyotes left.  There probably are, in my opinion, purebreds left, but I know that there are a lot of mixed animals out there.  Some people refer to them as "Coy Dogs."

[fitzhugh]

Also, if I remember my wildlife 101, coy-dogs come into heat just like a regular dog, meaning anytime. Pups born in Dec or Jan probably don't do well. I think coy-dogs are a dead end street as far as nature is concerned. The first time man got a dog to retrieve instead of keep for himself, was the end of "wild dogs" as we know them.  The History Channel did a pretty fair job of explaining on their recent special "When humans die."

[Ray Ford]

Fitz,

I saw that program--and pretty much agree with what they had to say about what would happen to the dogs that people would leave behind.  Some would die of stravation and thirst because they could not escape their confinement.  Others would be unable to fend for themselves.  Many would fall prey to other dogs or animals.

Does your name have anything to do with the big city of Fitzhugh in Oklahoma?

[CoonX]

Ray, years ago when I delivered dog feed, I was able to do quite a bit of hunting and have shot a couple of extremely mangy coyotes around your neighborhood.
When the mange is severe, the 'yote will have a grayish/blue skin and very little hair. It'll look like something some a Sci-Fi movie.
Here's a dog with acute Sarcoptic Mange;

Also, I know of the "Chupacabra" that you're referring to, it was DNA tested and was a coyote with mange. The reason the rear legs looked so long is that they were hyper-extended while front was broken and partially curled up.

Will

[Ray Ford]

Coon,

I've come to the conclusion that what Seth saw at my place was either a mangy coyote or coyote/dog cross.  I've also came to the conclusion that the reason that it showed no fear and walked right past him was that it was so sick that it didn't have enough strength or will to be afraid.  Another possibility was that it was a wild, or abandoned, dog.  People will take sick/mangy dogs out and drop them off rather than deal with the problem.

Speaking of sarcoptic/red mange, if I had that dog, the picture of which you posted, and wanted to save it, I would do this: 
1.  Immediately rub it down with a mixture of used oil and diesel--the entire body.
2.  Give it an injection of ivomec.
3.  Put it on a high/high protein diet.
In most cases, the rub with oil/diesel will immediately knock the mange back.
In most cases, the ivomec will work on the sarcoptic mite--an external parasite.
In most cases, the high protein diet will cause the animal to secrete increased amounts of skin oil.

The increase in skin oil, which is secreted into the hair folicle, will work on the mite--which burrows into the hair folicle.  The reason that sarcoptic mange can not be easily treated is that the mite is not on the surface of the skin but in the folicle.  (A very good veteranarian in Ada, Oklahoma, back in the 1970's, said to me, "We've had some success with it [red mange] by treating the skin and by increasing the protein level in the diet.  I don't know why that works."  Since I knew that throwing cotten seed cake to an old mare would increase her skin oil to the point that she, from a distance, looked wet, I immediately knew why it worked.)  Protein does wonders for most animals.

The treatment must continue over a period of time.  One rub with oil and diesel and one can of dog food isn't going to do it.

Regular skin care and good diet will go a long ways toward eliminating skin problems on dogs--and probably people.

A couple of other things:  Ivomec applied to the skin is a good route to go.  Just remember that that medicine is absorbed through the skin--the dog's skin and your skin--and can be overdosed.  Avon Skin-so-Soft also helps.

BUT, it remains true that a sarcoptic dog, and his owner, are often better off if the animal is humanely put down.  And they should not be bred.  One reason for that is that some lines of dogs appear to be more susceptible to the skin problem.  The sarcoptic mite can often be found on dogs that have no other sign of the disease.  They may have a genetic resistance to it--or they may be being fed and cared for properly.
 

[NONYA]

I HAD A SHOOTOUT WITH A MANGY FOX,SWEAR TO GOD HE WAS CHARGING THE TRUCK after BEING SHOT SEVERAL TIMES,i HAVE NEVER SEEN AN ANIMAL OF ANY SIZE SAOK UP ROUNDS LIKE THAT FOX,WE STILLL TELL THE STORY OF THE HELLHOUND

[SHOOTALL]

you did shoot him at long distance , RIGHT ?

[rex6666]

Yea shot him at 600 yards while he was charging the truck, That Nonya don't mess around.
 
started shooting at 600 yards with a 7mm mag hit it so many times that buy the time it was dead it was 2lbs heavier.
You guys just bring out the good im me.

[Travis Morgan]

Probably migrated north through the chupacabra underground railroad to feed on he plentiful BF blood in your area,cant blame the lil SOBs the Mexican govt probably regulates the hell out of their BF so that the chupaluppas cant get a decent meal.Some very active imaginations in your zip code Ray,have they tested the ground water for arsenic?

There's a LOT of lead in the ground out there, as well as other heavy metal contaminants.

[Justin10mm]

Nothig more than a very sick coyote with mange. I have killed half a dozen on our ranch. The last one was a very old, small female that had been raiding our trash dump, this past fall. I shot her as she was leaving an old abandoned house on my property. When they are in the final stages, they are weak and will do anything to get food.

Peaple need to wake-up and smell the real world, and stop learning about nature from hollywood.

There is no chupacabra, but if there is, It looks nothing like a hairless, starveing coyote.

[Ray Ford]

I started this thread with an account of a sighting of what was tentatively identified as a chupacabra on our place in Alfalfa County, Oklahoma.

The other evening, I saw a TV program on these supposed creatures.  I had senn it before.  It wasn't new.  I have reached some conclusions--not really unique ones--about what the critters that people have seen are.  

1. I agree that the critters are mange-afflicted coyotes, dogs, or hybrids--probably "red mange."  One of the common observations about these critters is that they appear to have thickened, grayish skin.  This can be the effect of red mange.  The mite that causes red mange doesn't simply afflict the surface of the skin like the common mange.  It burrows down into the hair folicle where it can not be reached by applications of the various mange remedies to the surface of the skin.  It is, then, frequently labeled not curable.  A severe case of this mange reduces the animal to a lethargic, emaciated condition.  That is another common observation.  When the animal becomes emaciated, the gums are likely to retract/skrink. making the canine teeth appear extra long.  The extra-long teeth are a thrid common observation made of the chupacabra.

2. As for the sucking of blood, I doubt that any sucking really occurs.  It is possible that the animals are so weakened that they do not have the strenth to tear what they have killed apart and consume it.  They may simply, after they have bitten a prey to death, lick up all of the blood flow.  This would create the illusion that the killed animals have had all the blood sucked out of them.

3. The reports of the strange creatures walking on two legs seem to have originated in Puerto Rico .  There are wild, but not natiive, rhesus monkeys there.  They are known to be vicious killers under the right circumstances.  I suspect that they are responsible for the stories of two-legged chupacabras from that island.  I wonder, can those monkeys contract the same mange as dogs?

The boy who saw the one on our place said that it walked past him and his dog with no appearace of fear.  I suspect that it was so near death that it did not have the strenth to react to his or the dog's presence.
If possible these very sick canines should be shot--put down to relieve them of their misery.

[Ray Ford]

To add something to the above post:  Is it possible that coyotes have an increased suseptibility to dog mange do to, as some believe, the wide-spread intermixing of dogs and coyotes?  I've posted in other places about this intermixing.  One old rancher told me that he did not believe that there were any purebred coyotes left in his area and probably elsewhere.  When he was a kid, he said, you could not make a coyote emit a pain cry.  Now, he said, if you shoot one and don't get a clean kill, they hollar like a hurt dog.