What's up with all the high powered magnum rifles?

[His lordship.]

I have been shopping for a new rifle in something sensible, like a .223 or a .308.  Where ever I go there seems to be an abundance of calibers on the racks like .338, .300, and 7 mm magnum, etc.  I currently live in Minnesota and it is shotgun only in the lower half of the state, making a centerfire illegal for deer, and the close-in brush undergrowth of the Northern half is best suited for a 30-30 lever action.  

At the range I see guys bringing in these "ultra magnums in 300 ultra, etc. just to shoot at a paper target 100 yards away.  The barrel heats up like an oven and they just wait and wait for it to cool down.  Plus the ammo is $35.00 a box, and the barrels have very short lives, not counting the high cost of the rifle and I heard there is a waiting period on these new fangled magnums.  My shooting partners and I with our .308's and other traditional calibers just laugh!  :lol:

Sure, you could drive to Wyoming and shoot at a mule deer 600 yards away with a .300 magnum, but most people here don't do that, they probably have never been to that Western state.  Why are these overkill guns so prevalent on the guns racks?  If you hit a white tail at 100 yards there would be very little meat left to cook.  Have other shooters seen the same sorts of availability in the Eastern and Midwestern gun shops as well?

Thanks

[Questor]

I'm in MN too and I know what you mean.  There sure is a lot of interest in magnums.  While in Montana recently I stopped in a big gun shop and asked what they recommend for big game hunting in Montana.  The dialog went something like this:
1) He asked me whether it would be used for elk
2) I said no.
3) He said 30-06 or .270. Don't get a magnum.
4) I said "What's a good gun?"
5) He said "The Ruger is a good value, and it comes with scope rings."


I volunteer at my club's annual deer sight-in and I see a lot of 30-30 through 30-06 class guns. The Remington pump rifle is very popular.  Those choices make a lot of sense for this state.  However, there are a fair number of magnum shooters.  They use them to shoot across fields or down railroad tracks.

[jhm]

ChrisD :  A lot of the shooters are trading in their belted magnums for the new short magnums so that could explain the increase in magnum in the gunshops,     JIM

[Rusty]

Come on Chris, get with it!  The firearms companies and  gun writers are trying hard to sell us new merchandise.  They will be disapointed if you don't buy their new super duper magnums.  
If I was going to Alaska or Africa, I might get a magnum.  However I still like my 308 & 6.5 X 55 & 223 (yote & fun gun).
The new short magnums I think are a good idea, it's just that the 3006, 308, and 270 are still very good.  One additional thought on the magnums: Winchester magnums (300WM, 338WM & 458WM are and have been noted in the past as "short magnums".  These "old short belted magnums" were noted for being efficient and accurate.  The new short magnums (WSM & SAUM) are slightly more efficient with less powder.  Their down side is : less powder (can't jack the velocity up quite as much, if you nuts enuf to want this), and they may not be have as positeve magazine feeding as the older belted magnums did (the jury is still not settled on this one yet).

Where you hunt for whitetails in Misconsin, I bet the Savage Scout (308 or 7mil 08) would be a pretty good tool.  

[Snowshoe]

The magnum mentality goes along with the 4x4 SUV. There is a place for the magnum and the 4x4 SUV, but so often we see the 4x4 never leaving the blacktop, and the big magnum shooting deer at 75 yards. That is fine because it keeps the economy rolling, but it is not for me. I have a limited income and many interests. I will stick with my 8x57 Mauser, my ball shooting side lock muzzleloader, and my .22-250 to protect my poultry. As long as we all have fun doing what we do.

[longwinters]

Some guys will always think they have to have the BIG GUN just because its "manly".  Others just like a variety of experiences.  They get bored with the standard 308 or 270 (of which there is nothing wrong with either of these calibers).  I have gone all over the place.  From the 44 mag revolver, to the Thompson contender pistol, 30-06 (pump and bolt), 30-30, muzzleloader, 243 and 7mm mag.  I get kinda offended when I hear guys dis another guys caliber.  Generally people who have to find fault with another mans gun have a small dog attitude in my mind.  I never hunted or refused to hunt with anyone yet based on the caliber they shot . . . but rather the kind of charactor they have. Not trying to be arrogant or ignorant . . .  Just my 2cents. :-)

[waksupi]

I think a lot of it is younger hunters and shooters coming up, with a thirst for knowledge. First thing they do is grab a slick hunting magazine. They can't write every month that the 30-06 is all you need, they have to present some other kind of chopped meat to keep the new peoples interest. As it is, article topics are on about an eighteen month cycle, sometimes less. That is why I only get the American Rifleman now. If I want repeats, I'll watch TV.
Once the youngsters figure out all you need is maybe 2400 fps for 99% of thier hunting, they will slow down a bit. I've slowed down so much, I built a .358 Win. to use cast bullets in for my hunting rifle. Horror of Horrors! I'm sure those 277 gr. flat nosed bullets at 2000 fps will just bounce off of deer and elk.

[huntsman]

I think since I joined the Forum last fall we've batted this same ball around several times now. In fact I think I posted one with almost the same title a few months ago. We will have those who insist the magnum thing is mostly a fad and an unnecessary extreme (I happen to be one of those), and we will have the opposite arguments that the new magnums are a refinement in rifle technology that improve accuracy and killing power in more modern rifle styles. Back and forth we will go, backing our opinions with reasonable and sometimes not so reasonable arguments.

But the real truth is that some folks are going to want something new, whether or not there is any tangible gain to justify it. And others are just as steadfastly going to be proud of what they can accomplish with the "old fashioned" rifles that we've had around for a while. AND NEITHER ONE IS WRONG.

Sport shooting and hunting are, by their very lack of necessity in this day and age, hobbies for all of us. We can say we hunt for meat or tradition or whatever, but in the end we are all just out there because we love the experience of what it brings to our lives.

If experimenting with a new style/caliber of gun is what brings excitement to you in this sport, then no one should deny you your chance to experience that. If you feel you can afford the price tag of the new gun and ammo, and it has a payoff that's justified in your mind, then we should be able, as sportsmen, to let that be your piece of that big pie we call enjoyment. So what if there is or isn't a 1" better trajectory at 250 yards, or whatever? We're missing the point.

And if you want to have one of these new guns for your enjoyment, you shouldn't feel like you need to justify it with all of the technical data from the range or "knocked 'em dead" stories from the field. Just get your gun, shoot it safely and well, enjoy the experience, and let the naysayers go have fun with their old '06 or whatever and leave you well enough alone.

In truth, we all have favorites: favorite stories, favorite boots, favorite recipes, favorite guns, favorite friends, etc. None of them is ever going to be perfect in everyone else's mind, but that's okay. That's what makes our own lives unique and special, something to be remembered by us and by our closest friends and family members. And that is what makes our experiences as sportsmen something we enjoy and want to share and remember.

If we're out there having fun, and doing it safely, then let's quit nagging at each other about the insignificant details. And whether you tagged the eight-pointer last season with 250 grains of lead zipping along at 300 fps or 100 grains of lead plodding along at 1800 fps, or anything in between, is beside the point. Whether you enjoyed the backstrap fried or barbequed is beside the point. Whether you enjoyed the whole experience enough to drag your tired rear end out of bed at 5:00 am again next year to do it all again is THE POINT. And that's my point, however dull or sharp it might be.

HAPPY HUNTING

[ccanevit]

Good point, except for the 100 grains of led at 300fps...
Unless its very sharp.

[huntsman]

Editorial correction: was intended to be 250 grains of lead at 3000 fps. 300 fps wouldn't exactly fall into the "zipping along" category. Typo error. But beside the point anyway.

[Crayfish]

Been there, done it ... as far as the "magnumitis" thing goes.  I started my deer hunting career with a Savage Model 99 in 250-3000.  It's 100gr of lead poking along at 2800fps or so killed deer just fine.  

When I got the urge to "upgrade" some 15yrs later, I didn't want what everyone else had (30-06, 270, etc .... boring).  I liked the .30 bores and settled on a Rem 700 BDL in 300 WinMag (my hunting partner was using a 300Weatherby, so that may have had some influence on my decision).  After getting the snot beat out of me for 8yrs or so, I decided to wave the white flag and move down the ladder a ways.  I shot the 300WM just fine and it was a consistent sub-MOA shooter that killed deer just like it's supposed to, but I didn't enjoy shooting it at the bench anymore.  And it was getting to be chore to carry around, at something like 9.5lbs fully loaded.

I decided to get a light weight rifle in a short action cartridge and settled on the Rem700 Mountain Rifle in 7mm-08.  My hunting partners first comment was, "What, you're not getting a magnum?!?!", with a hint of shock in his voice.  I explained to him that the trajectory out to 300yds is nearly identical between the 7mm-08 with a 140gr bullet and the 300WinMag with a 180gr bullet (which is what I was shooting).  The surprised look on his face was priceless and I'm sure he dug out the trajectory tables as soon as he got home!

Bottom line, whatever floats your boat is fine with me!  I can understand both sides of the issue.  The magnums work great for pushing heavy bullets as fast as a smaller caliber pushes a lighter bullet.  Each of us needs to decide for ourselves how important that is to us and what we are willing to pay (in $$, gun weight, ammo cost, recoil, noise, etc, etc) to get it.

My 3.5 cents worth!  ... Crayfish

[gunnut69]

Perhaps those who bought them in the latest wave of magnumitus have begun to realize the error of their ways. They were maybe traded in for a more reasonable caliber. I do disagree though on some of the points made here. My 7mm Rem will do anything a 30-30 will at 100 yards and what a 30-30 can't at 300 in a powerline or clearcut. Perhaps more than needed but then so would the 30-06 be. Just look at energy firures on the two at the muzzle or recoil firures. Destruction of edibles is more a function of bullet performance than caliber. A friend of mine is an admittedly big bore crazy. He deer hunts with a 375 H&H. Sounds ridiculous but I've seen some of the deer he's shot. Not a huge amout of blood shot meat and total penetration! Does he need that much power to ancher an average sized whitetail??  heck no but he loves to shot the big rifles and doesn't have the money for Africa of Kodiak Island. The real problem was touched on, the makers have found they can sell us what we don't really need and cut the quality of the weapons and make money, rather than build better rifles in more reasonable calibers. The fix is really simple, if you feel they're invalid just don't buy them

[Big Tom]

This question reminds me of fishing. There probably arent many of you out there that fish who only have one or two lures in your tackle box.

Now I know rifles are more expensive than lures( unless you fish Muskies)
but different lures, rods. reels etc... have different purposes.

My favorite rifle for the Upper Peninsula (same terrain as Northern Minn) is a Sako M591 in .308. I have shot many deer/bear in my 40 years of hunting with no less than 15-20 different rifles in calibers from .243 to .300 H&H.
I enjoyed every one of those rifles, but not as much as the privilege to bear them.
Shoot what you like and can handle accurately, and thank the Lord and Uncle Sam you still live in a country where you can. Life would be boring if we all had to only shoot one caliber... and who could EVER decide what that caliber would be?? :shock:

[jdt48653]

last year just before opening day of firearm deer season,i aquired a nice kowa in 300 weatherby,and my stepson had to use it ! so i told him he could ,and to zero it in.so he did.opening morning he asked if he could use my 243! no body has asked to borrow it? i wonder why???

[Big Tom]

I was given a beautiful .300 Weatherby when I retired from teaching last June. I didn't care for the recoil so I had a brake put on it. Now it recoils less than my .308 and pushes a 165gr Nosler flat as far as I can see.
No more guessing yards. I now reload and even if I didn't we can get Remington ammo in .300 Wby for 23$ a box at the local gun shop.
I am considering a trip to Manitoba next year where they hunt some huge open farmland for large Whitetails and it will be my #1 choice for Elk this fall. I don't think it will replace my little Sako .308 for deer hunting in the thick woods near home, but then, who knows?

Why did you buy a .300 Wby jdt? :?:

[David Parenteau]

You guys are right when you say that you don't need a magnum calibre to hunt most North American Big Game.However,as you get further north and animals become larger with every mile,and a good bull moose will weigh well in excess of 1500 pounds,the use of magnum calibres begins to make more sense.Long shots of 300 yards and more can be common in some areas,and the probability of squaring off with a big grizzly who wants to claim your game always exists.If you've ever squared off with a mad(or even happy)grizzly bear,you'll know how small even a .375 H&H can feel in your hands.300 Win Mags and the likes,in a well fitting gun,aren't all that bad to shoot and there are lots of guys who shoot them well!
                   Dave

[Lagavulin]

spoken like a BC boy :biggun:

[Hud]

I'm a Minnesotan that hunts in the north where rifles are legal; I also hunt out West as often as I can. I think it is pretty common for us up here to hunt out West.  The 30-06 has always done me right whether up close at home or long shots out west.  Actually I've made my longer shots here at home.

But magnumitis is a realitive thing. As I posted in another thread, my grandfather thought anything more than a  Model 92 in 25-20 was overkill for deer. That includes the Model 94 30-30. Just no need for such power.

Now my boys were shooting full power 30-06 loads at 8 years old before they were strong enough to hold the gun off the bench.  So it was natural for them to go to something larger, as recoil was really no problem for them. I never told them, as youngsters, that there was such a thing as recoil, and they never learned to fear it.

They like the flat trajectory of the fast caliber magnums as distance error  is not a great as a problem; so they argue that it is more ethical to use them than a lesser caliber that could wound an animal at a distance.  They also like the ability to thread a bullet through the brush without touching a branch on the 80yd woods shots. If a guy hits a branch it is his fault, not the branches. It is a shot that should not have been taken.

Neather do they need to hack down all the trees to make shooting lanes like the 30-30 and 12Ga boys do. I'm not saying that everyone that shoots a shotgun or a 30-30 hacks down all the trees. But I have noticed that when you find a tree stand with a bunch of lanes hacked out that the guy there is usually not using a magnum.

I've only hunted once down south in the Minnesota shotgun zone. It is a whole different style of deer hunting.  I guess our state feels that a gun with no sights is somehow safer down there :wink:.  I think I'll stay up here in the woods.  

Hud

[magnum308]

Chris D,

"Wicked cartridges, these 30 calibre magnums - hard hitting, hard kicking, quick killing - but only if those using them can shoot them. They are certainly just about as close to being all-round big game cartridges as anything." The Hunting Rifle by Jack O'Connor (page 142).

I have a custom built 308 Norma Magnum (similar to a 300 Win Mag) and it is comfortable to shoot, primarily due to a stock style and measurement designed just for me. If ever there was a need for custom rifles (and I mean real custom) it is in these calibres as it makes them milder to shoot. Don't get me wrong there is recoil there (and you'll get a weatherby eyebrow) if you don't hold the rifle properly for the calibre. But I love to shoot my 308 NM and in the field I don't notice the recoil and it is an efficient killer on the appropriate size game at good ranges.

having said that, I also have two "mild" calibres a 308 and a 270 and both of these are light (mountain) rifles (pre 64 M70 fwt). They can be built a pound or two lighter than a 30 cal mag. Also Jack O'Connor's favorite mountain (sheep) rifle was a light weight 270.  

There is nothing more absurd than a person with a magnum that he can't shoot without a flinch. He'd better of with a milder calibre that he can shoot and shoot well.

Magnum308

[azshooter]

I find my 300 WSM very sensible.  This year I took 2 bison with one shot each.  There are critters a lot bigger than Minnesota deer where they are better suited than non-magnums :grin:  Since I load my own, retail ammo cost is not a factor.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

What's the big deal?? I own magnums---a .30-06---.223---and even the lowly .30-30.

Tool for the job kinda thing.

[Daniel]

I'm glad we have the choices we have available to us. The rifle I deer hunt with most often is my .300 Weatherby Sako. Why? Simply because it's my favorite and that's all the reason I need. I reload for it and shoot it enough to know I can shoot it accurately. I am fully aware that a lesser cartridge would suffice and I have those available and use them too, but more often than not the .300 Wby goes to the woods with me. I just prefer it, that's all.

[shoot'n hogs]

I recently bought my 300 rum sendero.  I use it for long range target which is a hobby for me.  Will I use it for deer, probably not.  However, when that future elk or mule deer hunt comes along, I will be ready to go.  I mainly use my 25-06 for deer and hogs.

[jvs]

The major gun and ammo manufacturers don't make much money any more on the standard cartridges, so the only thing left for them to do is to create markets for oddball stuff that is expensive to shoot.

As an example, Remington is coming out with a 350 Short Mag this year.
Now......what that caliber has over the .35 Whelen, which just came out not long ago, I'll never know.  I own a .35 Rem which is much cheaper to shoot than both the 35 Whelen and 350 SAM.  

I can't imagine Remington trying to sell a new .35 Rem for the same price as those other 2 calibers, even though they woould probably cost about the same to produce.  Some of these new calibers carry a MSRP of close to $600, some alot more.   In order for the manufacturers to get the big bucks they have to change calibers because I don't know anybody who will spend that kind of money for the standard calibers.  I almost bought a Remington CDL 7mm-08 this year but decided against it since I already have a Winchester Model 70 Fwt .308 and the price difference for ammo or reloading wasn't worth the extra cost of anything more the 7mm-08 can do over the .308.  This may be the year for me to pick up something in a Savage Accu-Trigger.  But I do know it won't be anything exotic by my standards.

Since I started hunting in the late 60's, I have tried to buy one new firearm per year, mostly hunting rifles in standard calibers or shotguns, maybe a couple of handguns but not many.  Some years I couldn't afford much and other years I could.  By now, my gun collection has more value than my bank account at current new and used prices.  If I was starting out now, I think I'd be investing in Ammo and Firearms.  I think ammo prices will almost be untouchable 20 years from now.   A few times a year, when I go to Walmarts or K-Marts, I buy a box of ammo........always planning ahead.  I may now be in a postion where I will never have to buy another box of ammo.

So, if you want my opinion, buy the standard calibers and stick with them.  In the future, they will be a whole lot cheaper to shoot.

[bigjeepman]

I think we all ought to be happy that we have so many calibers and rifles to choose from. This is no different than having so many vehicles to choose from when it comes time to buy another car or truck. I really do not see why it bothers any consumer to have so much to choose from as we are all different in our tastes and needs.

I have a .300wsm and I enjoy the challenge to find the right load so that I can shoot it as accurately as I do my smaller calibers. I decided on this caliber over a year ago because I wanted something in the .300 cal size because their are so many different bullets I can choose from.

[Bearwolf31]

Guess some folks think that a big cannon magnum will help make up for poor shot placement.  Wonder how hunters even managed in the days before all the cannon magnums were so common? But on the other side of the equation, as long as folks are buying guns, etc  it will help keep the industry afloat. In the meantime I will stick with my "piddly" 270 and 308.

[Redhawk1]

Who are we to criticize what other buy. It's my money and I will get what pleases me. Now to the real part of why a magnum choice. I am going on a Caribou hunt in Alaska and the shots can be from 50 yards to 400 yards. With my 300 win mag I know I would not have any problem out to 400 yards. The 300 win mag has enough energy to do the job cleanly out at 400 yards. Now a non magnum may get out to 400 yards but not have the energy to do the job cleanly. The other thing is being able to make the shot at 400 yards is on the hunters shoulders. Personal preference, isn't it great.  

[MGMorden]

I think a lot of it is younger hunters and shooters coming up, with a thirst for knowledge.

I'm considered young (22) and I certainly don't go for magnums.  Heck before I turned 18 the only deer calibers I was a aware of were .30-30, .270, and .30-06 (my dad had always used .30-06, which is what he bought me when it was time for a hunting rifle).  Now that I'm "older" and have developed a shooting interest aside from hunting, I know about a whole heck of a lot of rifle calibers, but my main hunting round was still .30-06 last season, and will likely be 6.5x55 this season (though I've got a notion to take my K31 out one day though.  I've got some handloaded 7.5x55 hunting rounds already prepared if I get the chance ).  The only reason I'd have to buy a magnum is for setting aside for a possible trip to Africa someday (hey it could happen).  For that reason alone if I was going to get one I'd get a .375 H&H (though that's an older magnum).

[tbone]

I had myself convinced that I "needed" a 300 ultra mag.  It seemed like the perfect gun because the 300 Win Mag, both standard and short action, just didn't offer that much more the my good ol' 30-06.  Luckily good sense took over and I am now going to put a new synthetic stock and better optics on my 30-06.

I use one shotgun (12 ga Rem 11-87) for everything from grouse to geese and if it flies, its down.  That gun shoots everything from 7/8 oz grouse loads to 2 oz turkey loads.  Along the same lines, I haven't missed with my 30-06 in 15 years.  This doesn't mean my shooting skills are perfect.  What works for me is being very, very comfortable with my guns.  Shooting one gun for everything may be boring but it is painfully successful.  I am going on an elk, mule deer, and bear hunt in BC next fall.  The 30-06 will be accompanying me along with my Federal High Energy bullets.  This is my stardard whitetail set up but should serve me well north of the border as well.  Now with the new "managed recoil" loads I can also let my kids start out with a gun that will grow with them just by changing bullets from managed recoil to stardard to high energy.  The only thing I would really like is if my guns had camo synthetic stocks and stainless metal.  That would make them completely all-purpose.

All this magnum hype is just that, hype.  Bow hunting taught me that if you hit them where you are supposed to they go down fast.  We should  not worry so much about how hard we hit them, but use quality bullets and worry about where we hit them.  Being very familiar with your gun makes that easier.

[Redhawk1]

I had myself convinced that I "needed" a 300 ultra mag.  It seemed like the perfect gun because the 300 Win Mag, both standard and short action, just didn't offer that much more the my good ol' 30-06.  Luckily good sense took over and I am now going to put a new synthetic stock and better optics on my 30-06.

I use one shotgun (12 ga Rem 11-87) for everything from grouse to geese and if it flies, its down.  That gun shoots everything from 7/8 oz grouse loads to 2 oz turkey loads.  Along the same lines, I haven't missed with my 30-06 in 15 years.  This doesn't mean my shooting skills are perfect.  What works for me is being very, very comfortable with my guns.  Shooting one gun for everything may be boring but it is painfully successful.  I am going on an elk, mule deer, and bear hunt in BC next fall.  The 30-06 will be accompanying me along with my Federal High Energy bullets.  This is my stardard whitetail set up but should serve me well north of the border as well.  Now with the new "managed recoil" loads I can also let my kids start out with a gun that will grow with them just by changing bullets from managed recoil to stardard to high energy.  The only thing I would really like is if my guns had camo synthetic stocks and stainless metal.  That would make them completely all-purpose.

All this magnum hype is just that, hype.  Bow hunting taught me that if you hit them where you are supposed to they go down fast.  We should  not worry so much about how hard we hit them, but use quality bullets and worry about where we hit them.  Being very familiar with your gun makes that easier.

This is what make's it great. We all have choices and can make them with out being told what to get. If you are happy with your choice and it works for you, then my opinion should not matter. I have always said, if you don't like what I am shooting, buy me one of yours and I will shoot it. But as long as I paying it my choice.