Author Topic: Remington 700 old vs new - which to buy? (Read 4368 times)

North Nick · « **on:** August 01, 2007, 05:37:37 AM »

I am looking to buy a 700. Is there any advantage to finding one built in the 80's vs buying a new one??

Is there a difference in the quality over the years?

Thanks for the help,

North Nick

james · « **Reply #1 on:** August 01, 2007, 11:12:38 AM »

When the short mag craze hit, about 5 years ago, I picked up two very good Rem 700 BDLs in 30.06 for a little over $300 each. One had a Weaver V9 and the other a Tasco 3x9. One had some bluing wear on the floor plate and bolt. The other looked new. The gun store was getting overstocked on trade-ins so I got a deal. At this time I think you can find a good used 06 because the caliber is so common. Personally I like the older guns but thats just my preference and I have no scientific data to back it up. I just leave the keys to the j-locks in the box and forget lock is there. If you want a good deal watch for a used one. If you want a purty one, call up the custom shop and you can spend some $.

Aardvark · « **Reply #2 on:** August 01, 2007, 11:29:20 AM »

My first Remington 700 many years ago was a 70's model BDL 25-06...Great gun,good trigger,no problems.
More recently, I have a new 700 Classic(2004) 8mmMauser...Great gun, good trigger,no problems.
Even more recently I have acquired 2 700's made in '64 and '67 respectively both wood ADL's...Great guns, good triggers, no problems.
I cant tell any difference except cosmetics.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #3 on:** August 01, 2007, 01:38:58 PM »

I'd kinda watch the magnums. Some of the fellows don't realize just how fast they can heat up and wash out a throat by playing "machinegun kelly". That's from a dyed-in-the-wool Remington man. The same can happen to any magnum rifle.
'course, sometimes you can get a real cherry in a magnum because the fellow doesn't know what he's getting. I bought a 8mm Rem Mag once that came with 17 rounds left in a box of shells.

Aardvark · « **Reply #4 on:** August 01, 2007, 03:07:48 PM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on August 01, 2007, 01:38:58 PM

I'd kinda watch the magnums. Some of the fellows don't realize just how fast they can heat up and wash out a throat by playing "machinegun kelly". That's from a dyed-in-the-wool Remington man. The same can happen to any magnum rifle.
'course, sometimes you can get a real cherry in a magnum because the fellow doesn't know what he's getting. I bought a 8mm Rem Mag once that came with 17 rounds left in a box of shells.

Was he wearing a shoulder brace?

700xcr · « **Reply #5 on:** August 01, 2007, 03:38:39 PM »

I have an early Remington 700BDL in 243win. and last years model 700xcr in270wsm. Both guns are accurate and shooting 1/2" groups at 100yds. So in my opinion quality is equal.

Val · « **Reply #6 on:** August 01, 2007, 04:33:23 PM »

I have a Remy 700 in 30-06 that's a 1982 made rifle and a Remy 700 Mountain rifle in .280 that I bought last year. They both shoot very well but the quality of the wood stock on the older rifle is much better than last years Mountain rifle.

Lou270 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 01, 2007, 04:38:40 PM »

I haven't really seen a big decline in quality. One step backwards in my opinion is when Remington moved from Walnut to cheap synthetic stock on the ADL line. I like the CDL stock much better than the old BDL stock. I also preferred the older Mt. Rifle with the hinged floorplate to the later models with detachable magazine. Accuracy and reliability have been excellent with any of my 700s. Remington recently introduced a new trigger on some of their models that is reported to be better out of the box than the old trigger. However, a gunsmith can typically smooth up an old Remington trigger for a reasonable price.

-Lou

saltydog · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2007, 05:29:22 AM »

Price and wood stock would be my considerations. If you are buying a '06 or greater caliber probably won't need to worry about an older barrel being shot out. I like the 70's ADL's as the wood is often quite nice on them and not glossy as the BDL's are. You can always put a synthetic stock on an older rifle if weather is a concern.

nofun1 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2007, 01:30:40 PM »

I have 14 700s from old to new I love all but 2. Every one but the last 2 will shoot 1/2 with carefully developed handloads bedding and trigger tuning. I bought 3 last month and two had barrels that were drilled crooked and wouldn't shoot,until I rebarreled them. after taking them apart I hate to say it but I think since they took the bolt lock off, Remington's main caliber is P.O.S. unimproved not only did they have bad barrels but when I called them they said since I had the stock bedded and adjusted the trigger, they wouldn't warranty the barrel even though it was clearly a factory defect I was told by someone in a position to know that Remington's only pays $35.00 apiece for barrels. I was no fan of the bolt lock. but when they took them off they made other changes that screwed them up even more. The new triggers are crap and not as adjustable as before and they made the trigger block just a little smaller so you cant drop in a decent trigger. After dumping an extra 600 a piece they now shoot like previous versions. Until Remington pulls there head out and gets there act together I wont buy another one. I am an ex Remington lover, not a bitter internet poster, but 100% of the newest models I bought were defective and Remington would not stand behind them.

Graybeard · « **Reply #10 on:** August 21, 2007, 01:37:17 PM »

Since Remington makes their own barrels it's kinda immaterial how much they have invested in each isn't it? I suspect your informed source is really NOT so informed. They make the barrels they don't out source them.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #11 on:** August 21, 2007, 05:31:50 PM »

My only Remington bolt gun is a .308 Win BDL made in 1975. I picked it up used as a Christmas present to myself in 2005. The rifle is incredibly accurate. I've also picked up some used Rugers made in the 80's and have found them to be excellent additions to the collection.

Overall I'm inclined to buy used rifles in excellent condition.

tuck2 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 21, 2007, 05:49:57 PM »

Some of the old and new Remington bolt action rifles can be improved by adjusting the trigger, glass bedding the action, free floating the barrel, lapping the bolt locking lugs, and re crowning the muzzle. I have had old and new rifles that shot smaller groups after doing part and or all of the above.

nofun1 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 22, 2007, 12:20:04 AM »

Greybeard: you may be right, It is so hard to know what to believe anymore It seems like the more passionate people are about things the more misinformation there is. I'll be the first to admit that I could be wrong about the barrels. Unfortunately my experience with Remington is still very disappointing, which really saddens me because I used to be as loyal a Remington fan as there ever was.

Zachary · « **Reply #14 on:** August 22, 2007, 03:03:44 AM »

All of the Remington M700s that I own I bought from about the early 1990s to about 2004 or so. Out of these guns, I have only had 1 major problem, and that was with a BDL SS DM in 7mm-08. The trigger was so bad that it actually swayed left and right like a belly dancer. Given that I really wanted to take that gun on hunt the following week or so, and given that the gunsmith said that Remington could not replace that trigger within such a short period of time, and given that the gunsmith said that the trigger could not be fixed with a simple trigger job, I went ahead and had the gunsmith replace the belly dancer with a Jewell trigger.

Other than that, the usual work that a newer M700 needs is just a simple trigger job and perhaps a recrown, just like I have done with most, if not all, of my 700s.

Now, my father has an older 700 BDL Deluxe in .30-06 from about the late 70s to early 80s. It has a metal butt plate, so you can imagine how hard this gun kicks. Anyhow, working the action on this gun is truly a pleasure. It is as if it was customized by the finest gunsmith. I say this because none of my newer 700s actions feel as good. I have even had some of my newer 700s customized by having the bolt and action jewelled, but the bolt still does not cycle as smoothly and precisely as my dad's older 700.

Is this to say that the older 70s and 80s 700s are of a higher quality than the newer 700s? If I had to answer than question based on just comparing all of my newer guns to my fathers just 1 older gun, then I would have to say yes. HOWEVER, it really is not a representative answer because I have not had personal experience with many older 700s.

Graybeard has probably owned more 700s, both old and new, than just about anybody I know, and, if my memory serves me correct, he generally believes that there is no noticeable difference in quality between the older and newer rifles. Over the many years that I have been a member of this site, I have learned to value and respect his opinion. While I may not agree with him on everything, it seems that we do agree on about 95%+. So if there is an area that I don't have personal experience, then I usually defer to him.

You may also want to talk to EXPERIENCED gunsmiths and ask them their opinion on this subject if you want. I emphasize "EXPERIENCED" because it seems that just about anyone nowadays seems to call themselves a gunsmith, even with just 1 year of training. Find someone with many years of experience under his belt. We can learn alot from those with wisdom.

Zachary

charles p · « **Reply #15 on:** August 22, 2007, 09:51:52 AM »

Probably find better wood on an older model 700. Don't know that accuracy will be any different. What do you call old? Thirty years?

1longshot · « **Reply #16 on:** September 23, 2007, 12:29:29 PM »

As an onwner of 7, a former owner of at least 3 Remington 700's, and also a gun sales person at Bass Pro Shops in Las Vegas I would have to say that I have a pretty good experience of quality of Remington Firearms or a lack there of. Let me begin by saying the Remington model 700 is probably my favorite bolt action rifle. I own or have owned rifles made in the 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's. By far the older rifles have been machined better and the triggers are/were better on the older guns. I don't know about the new Xmark pro trigger. I was not Selling these rifles when the new triggers were introduced. I can however comment on the lack of quality of thier barrels. After ordering directly from Remington as a sales person a BDL SS 243, I inspected the throat area with the use of ambient outside light. This light offers the crispest view of internal barrel tooling that I have found. Upon inspection I found that the forward neck area of the chamber was cut deeper on one side than the other side indicating impropper/missaligned chamber to bore dimmesions. I have had other people visually confirm this raised metal flaw. I have heard the chambers at Remington are hammer forged as the barrel is made. Regardless of the chambering proccess, there is a obvious visual irregularity. After calling Remington they only offered to replace the barrel with a blued one, and only if they deemed the barrel out of spec. It is the same answer that Remington gives all the time. "If it is within spec. there is nothing we can do."
Anyway, I had the rifle rebarreled and still have the defective barrel. I would like to find some way to take a picture of the deformity so I can post it online and also send it to Remington. I don't know how to do it though. I immagine I would have to cut the barrel in half or do a chamber casting.

After buying this 243 I purchased a 700 LVSF in .308 Win. This chamber is also malaligned but not as pronounced as the 243's. I bought it anyway and have shot groups of around an inch with it. The verdict is still out though. I have not shot any groups for consistancy yet. And most of my loads were throwing groups around 3-4 inches. This gun is glass beeded, floated and the trigger is adjusted.

Aside from guns I own that have obviously problematic and deficcient workmanship, I have examined many, many new rifles from Remington that have come into the Bass Pro shop. My regular prodeedure would be to remove the bolt from one of the Remington 700 rifles, especially from larger diameter bored rifles, e.g. 277. call or bigger and examine the chamber as I had on mine. On over half of the guns I looked at I personally witnessed the same problem. It was confirmed by my assossiates. Apparently though if the bullet exits the muzzle of these barrels they meet spec at Remington. IT's really sad. I don't understand why a firearm manufacture who has the time to make thier own barrels doesnt do them right.

Just for measure I would do the same test to Rugers, Howas, Savages, Brownings Ect. None of them showed this deformity. Why?

Just an observation.

Are you listening Remington?

1marty · « **Reply #17 on:** September 23, 2007, 03:17:43 PM »

I had a remington mountain rifle in a 30-06-bad choice-came home bruised from the range-also due to the heavy recoil I "flinched" throwing my shots off.
Bought a 700 sps 7-08 last year-put on a Nikon 2X7 Monarch and have been shooting 1.5" groups out to 100 Yards. The trigger is sort of creepy but overall the accuracy is excellent. The deer I shot didn't seem to know the difference when hit with the 7-08. it went right down.

Swampman · « **Reply #18 on:** September 23, 2007, 03:25:23 PM »

I gave my old .308 700BDL to my son, and traded for a new 700BDL in .30-06. They were/are both very accurate rifles with excellent triggers right out of the box. I've never seen (or owned) a bad Remington.

saltydog · « **Reply #19 on:** September 24, 2007, 02:39:09 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on August 21, 2007, 01:37:17 PM

Since Remington makes their own barrels it's kinda immaterial how much they have invested in each isn't it? I suspect your informed source is really NOT so informed. They make the barrels they don't out source them.

I did not read that nofun said the barrels are outsourced - only that he was told they cost Remington $35 - every part in the rifle or any product has a cost to it - be it internally made or purchased from a vendor. However is that #35 an average cost, cost for a blue steel, cost for a stainless, cost for a hb varmit, cost for a 416 REM size and so on - the $35 figure seems on the low side to me even for an inexpensive barrel like the NEF Handi-rifles have.

Questor · « **Reply #20 on:** September 24, 2007, 03:54:10 AM »

Assuming that Remington does "only" pay $35 apiece for it's model 700 barrels, that only means that we pay way too much for custom barrels. The Remingtons are excellent, and are generally recognized as excellent.

Questor · « **Reply #21 on:** September 24, 2007, 03:55:09 AM »

My centerfire rifle is a Remington 700. It cost me under $1000, and has features and refinements that I expect to find on custom guns costing over three times as much.

BobT · « **Reply #22 on:** September 24, 2007, 04:44:51 AM »

I prefer the older ones myself, the metal work is way better, Remington is trying to make a price point, to do this they must cut production costs. It works every time, remember, Winchester did it too in 1964!

Bob

roninrus1 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 13, 2007, 05:45:44 AM »

Still have my 1st, 2nd,3rd, 4th 700's.
All pre-ownership change and dating from 1972 to mid-80's.
Great accuracy!!!!!
Sold #5 (bought mid-90's) and fixing to sell #6 (bought last year).
#5 was fair accuracy but #6 is terrible.
Have also had problems post-sale on receiving rebates they offer.
IMHO they aren't the quality they used to be.
For the first time I am considering something besides Remington.
Very possibly a Ruger.

Swampman · « **Reply #24 on:** October 13, 2007, 06:17:31 AM »

If you're unhappy with Remington accuracy, Ruger isn't a good choice either.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 14, 2007, 05:32:14 AM »

The fit and finish on my new 270 SPS 270 Win very good...not that I like matt finished guns over perfectly blued ones..because I don't...but...over all it is very good and very even.....Metal to stock contact in the barrel channel is perfect...with the only contact is at the pressure points in the muzzle end of the stock...The R3 recoil pad is fitted perfectly...with no gaps between it & the stock...The new X Mark Pro trigger is better than any factory trigger they have put out from the factory...It did need adjusting some what...but...with only 1 screw to adjust for a perfect 2lb pull that is creep free and with no over travel...it is simply awesome...The older model triggers could be adjusted ...but were a little more involved...I don't think you will be disappointed with the new models...just as I don't think you would be if you bought a older model used and in good shape..

Mac

roninrus1 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 16, 2007, 01:41:59 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 13, 2007, 06:17:31 AM

If you're unhappy with Remington accuracy, Ruger isn't a good choice either.

These last two Remingtons don't hold a candle to the others.
I'm willing to try Rugers.
I shoot regularly with a friend who collects Rugers and they shoot as good as the old Remingtons.
Got the Ruger so I'll let you know.
By the way, bought a youth 870 for grandson and it is not the quality of the older ones either.
Between myself and family I am outfitting I still own a total of eleven Remington rifles and shotguns.
So I really hate to see the company decline like they seem to be doing.

roninrus1 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 25, 2007, 01:48:07 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 13, 2007, 06:17:31 AM

If you're unhappy with Remington accuracy, Ruger isn't a good choice either.

Finally got to shoot it today.
Only had Fereral Premium w/130 Sierra SPBT.
Shoots rings around the Remington.
No tackdriver but definitely suitable for deer season.
Will work up handloads after the first of the year.