Vanguard SUB-MOA vs Tikka T3

[cccombo]

Looking at the stainless steel versions of both of them, have heard heaps about the T3 but would like to know how the Vanguard sub-moa compares with it.   

[safetysheriff]

i've only shot one 'standard-grade' Vanguard, synthetic, in .270 Win'.   it is a Shooter with a decent, tunable trigger ass'y.   the Tikka T3 i looked at at Gander Mt. in Twinsburg, Ohio was a decent rifle 'til i saw that CHEAP box mag' made out of very thin plastic!   that, along with my other aesthetic objections to the T3, was enough to send me packing.    i'll take the Japanese-built, Howa-mfr'd Vanguard over the Tikka at this point.   i liked the darkened stainless of the Tikka, and i am a little put off by the weight of the Vanguard.    BUT, i sincerely believe the Vanguard to be the better rifle and definitely a better buy, dollar-for-dollar.    and the bolt on the Vanguard is just as smooth as a baby's caboose!       it's everything the Tikka had to offer.   

you couldn't give me a stainless Tikka for my blued Vanguard.    i guess now you know how i feel.

just my two cents,

ss' 

ps:  i doubt that either of them will outshoot a Model 700 in .308 caliber, however.   

[Graybeard]

In spite of the "accuracy guarantee" that Weatherby gives THEY DO NOT SHOOT THE RIFLE before shipping it. They apparently chuck the barreled action only up and fire it not the actual rifle. So that the accuracy you get will have little to no bearing on what they got. It's really the equivilent of shooting a totally different rifle and saying they shot yours. Got caught with that false advertisement once myself but never again.

[Mac11700]

That is true Bill...they say they put it into a mule stock of the stock it will come in and then shoot them...then restock them in the new stocks... but sometimes they shoot even better when you get them using the same ammo...I've had 2 of them that did...and if for some reason..they don't shoot as well..they will have you ship it to them with your targets..At least that is what their C/S department told me when I asked them about it..I never had reason like you did to have any issues with them..I've had one of the cheaper synthetic Vanguards..and 1 of the MOA...both in 270...both excellent rifles...At my regular gun shop...I was told they only had 1 in 243 that went back on an accuracy issue since they started selling them...and they sell a-lot of Weatherby rifles there..and when it came back..the gentleman that bought it said it did indeed shoot as promised...Of course the MOA's start out with a much better stock that is pillar bedded..where as the cheaper Vanguards don't..

Mac

[safetysheriff]

In spite of the "accuracy guarantee" that Weatherby gives THEY DO NOT SHOOT THE RIFLE before shipping it. They apparently chuck the barreled action only up and fire it not the actual rifle. So that the accuracy you get will have little to no bearing on what they got. It's really the equivilent of shooting a totally different rifle and saying they shot yours. Got caught with that false advertisement once myself but never again.

GB'

because of their shooting the barrel'd action in a 'test' stock over there in Japan i admit that your statement is true.   maybe that's why they have to put what i consider a pretty decent, relatively heavy, synthetic stock onto the barrel'd action.    they sure could screw up a good target shot with their 'test' stock by using an "el-cheapo' in the final assembly.   yes, your observation is true, and it could be seen as false advertising.

if i wasn't such a Remington fan i'd own all Rugers and Vanguards/Howas.   i think their rifles are simple enough while giving us a good hammer-forged barrel and decent stocks.    yeah, i hear about the questionable Ruger accuracy at times, but can't see it from what i've shot.    i tuned the triggers as i've said elsewhere with a file, a stone, and machinists paper as needed.   then they shoot.   

i don't see a better All-Weather rifle than the one Ruger puts out, in part due to its simplicity.    and the Vanguard in stainless steel with synthetic stock should be a good item too.........if the trigger group is stainless.    (i don't know....)


take care,

ss' 

[Ahab]

I have a .243 and 7mmMag made by Howa. They are not the sub MOA models but they both shoot sub MOA with hand loads.

[Mac11700]

They are all good rifles..Some of the higher priced ones may be better..I don't know...but..I do know the Weatherby factory ammo isn't cheap... Goodness Gracious...speed comes with a heavy price in them...This is one of the reasons I like them in the standard calibers...easier to load for..and a lot cheaper to buy regular factory rounds...

S.S. you'll like this...I traded my 308 Savage Model 10FP today...A couple years ago hen I bought my 270 MOA...a guy bought a 30-06 at the same time...He used it very little and traded it in for one of the really big bruisers to hunt up in Alaska with this year...so I got it for a really good price...It isn't the stainless one...just the blued...but it is in great shape...so I figured everyone should have a good o6' around and now I do...

Mac

[lilabner]

I have both rifles (my Vanguard isn't the new sub moa model but shoots sub moa). I like them both. They both have a smooth bolt throw but the T3 is considerably smoother and less bolt lift. The T3 trigger is much better. I put a Timney in my Vanguard.  Maybe the sub moa model has a quality trigger out of the box. The Vanguard has a 24 inch barrel which I like for standard cartridges like the 25-06 and the .270 Winchester, while the T3 barrel is 22 and a half for standards. I prefer the hinged floorplate on the Vanguard to the detachable mag on the T3. The biggest difference in the rifles is weight - the T3 is much lighter and IMO that makes it a better mountain rifle. The Vanguard will weigh about 9 pounds with a variable power scope and a loaded magazine. Both are accurate.

[Mac11700]

The triggers aren't the greatest on any of the Vanguards as they come from the factory...but are pretty easy to adjust.....and the bolts are really smooth..and bearing correctly on both lugs I replaced my 270's factory trigger with Timney as well on the regular Vanguard..but not on the MOA......They can be adjusted down to about 3-4lbs. but I like them a little lighter than that...The Sub MOAs all seem to be adjusted down better and are smoother to me...at least on the ones I've owned...I'll shoot mine and see how it does...I'm looking forward to working up some good loads for it anyway...

Mac

[safetysheriff]

S.S. you'll like this...I traded my 308 Savage Model 10FP today...A couple years ago hen I bought my 270 MOA...a guy bought a 30-06 at the same time...He used it very little and traded it in for one of the really big bruisers to hunt up in Alaska with this year...so I got it for a really good price...It isn't the stainless one...just the blued...but it is in great shape...so I figured everyone should have a good o6' around and now I do...

Mac

Mac'

i'd just about bet, if i was still a betting man, that the 'moa' will shoot right with that .308 model 10.   usually i'd expect a .308 to shoot inside of a .30-06, in any given line of rifle.....on the average.     but those Vanguards will get it done!   i think you made a good decision.

let us know your recipes for the '06, please.    and i'll give you one of mine:   Rem' brass,   cci primer (std), imr-4320, and hornady 165 gr' btsp bullet.    i use it in a model 700 adl syn'.   it is a bellringer.    the recoil is very tolerable with a tightly-held rifle, and it prints where you point it!   i don't have a chrono' so can't say how fast it is.   but that btsp by hornady strikes me as a real killer; and it's of similar sd' as their "KILLER" in 139 gr' btsp for the .284 diameter.     (they both approximate the 130 gr' bullet in the .270 Win').   

good luck, Mac'

ss'   

[Mac11700]

Thanks SS...

I appreciate the load data...The 165 Hornady BTHP...150 gr. SST and few other bullets I will be trying will be the 168gr. CT Silver ballistic tip...and the 165 gr. A-Max...not to mention a smattering of Partitions here & there ..since I have all of those on hand already... I'll be at the range next week shooting it along with a few others I have neglected this summer...I can't wait to try it out on the 500 yard rams...

Mac

[JimG]

While I don't own a "Weatherby" branded Howa I do own a blued steel/black Hogue piller bedded stock Howa in .308Win. I do believe the rifles when sold as Howas come with the better of the stocks. Not that the Hogue is a Bell and Carlson but it is somewhat better than the Vanguards in my opinion. Anyhoo........I like this rifle so much that I strongly doubt I'll look at any other brand when it comes time to purchase another bolt gun. And I mean that. Go work the action, it's smooth and feels precise not sloppy. The metal work, while not on par with custom high end firearms, is very good for the money. Same for the general fit and finish. Blueing is even, not splotchy. Bore is smooth, no burrs or rough spots. The crown seems to be cut very evenly. The accuracy is superb. The bases and mounts are common everyday Remington compatible units that are sold everywhere, they are not some oddball units like some imports. And yes it's an import. I #$%##$*& despise that. But it's a fantastic buy for the money. Also it's a time tested design, been around for many, many years.