Something different on my H&R Ultra Varmint

[ncsurveyor]

A couple months ago, my little girl asked my why I had to take my H&R UV off the rest, break it, load a new round, then put it back on the rest, as opposed to the bolt guns I use.

"Because that's the type of gun it is, munchkin"

Can't you load it from the rest, like the other ones?

"No dear"

After a few shots, I was getting a little upset that the barrel, as opposed to the forearm, sits on the rest and I was stringing a few shots.  Started thinking, "A one piece stock sure would be nice.  But that's not going to happen."


or is it?


Please, no comments on the choice of wood (its all I had in the shop at the time)  And I still need to final sand, and get a replacement screw for the (ex) forearm screw. (and I know my foot is in the picture, sorry).  But here it is:








I'll try to get some better pix, with a better camera, when she's done.

[cattleskinner]

That's nice work, but how do you load/unload it???

-Amos

[ncsurveyor]

The receiver drops, I drilled and tapped the pin that the barrel rotates around, placed 10-32 screws in it along with a 3/8ths nylon bushing.  These rotate in a 3/8ths ID bronze bushing that I epoxy bedded into the sides.  Its visible in the second photo where the action drops.  With the ejector, the cases fly out, and just clear the comb of the stock.

The forearm screw attachment in the barrel was de-blued (cleaned and roughed more than de-blued), and I formed a recoil lug around this using steel epoxy and some aluminum channel.  The recoil is directed through the sides, which are reinforced with bedded aluminum flat stock that I placed in channels routed in the wood.  The wood was all laminates (1/4") so I just glued her together as the stock took shape.

Jeff

[quickdtoo]

Interesting concept, hope it works out for ya.

Tim

[ncsurveyor]

Interesting concept, hope it works out for ya.

Tim

More of a "just to see if I can" type of project.  The only drawback I have right now is that neck size only reloads are kind of stiff trying to close the receiver on, without the added leverage.  Factory ammo, and FL reloads go in fine.

Notwithstanding the total weight of 12+, its not a walk around gun, but it never was to begin with.

[lostsniper308]

hey, i like where this is going, you may have already answered it but is the barrel lug still used as usual? if this works out i'd like to do something like it as well, with your permission of course.

[quickdtoo]

If a chambered round isn't flush with the chamber face or slightly above it to take up any barrel to frame gap, you won't get good accuracy since latch engagement won't be the same each time, consistent latch engagement = accuracy. There isn't enough leverage in closing the action to force a crush fit as you would get with a bolt action. So, if your neck sized brass isn't fitting completely in the chamber, you're not gonna get good accuracy. If you can close the action with a round chambered and still have the same frame to barrel gap as it is without a round chambered, you're good to go. But I think if you're relying on the action forcing the round in with no gap, you'll probably find a gap if you look for it, even tho it locks up.

Tim

[ncsurveyor]

The lug in the barrel was reinforced (steel epoxy), and a piece of aluminum channel was added to the front of that reinforcement to give a flat surface for the recoil to spread to the stock, and not angle up, down or sideways.  After the lug was done, I routed a cavity in the stock for it to fit in, applied tape to the sides and bottom of the lug, then placed more steel epoxy into the stock cavity and placed the barrel lug into it.

After it hardened, I removed the tape from the bottom and sides of the lug.  Placed a thin rubber washer at the bottom of the lug to give a little vertical cushion, but all the recoil goes from the lug to the stock through the flat surface/aluminum.

I'll try to get pics of all the question areas when my other digital camera comes back home.

Quick,

I know, I experimented  a couple of weeks chambering rounds with the butt stock off, and checking gaps.  Didn't want to start it unless I could minimize that circumstance.  I only put a few factory rounds through it (in its unfinished state, I just couldn't wait) And so far, it doesn't appear to have any issues compared to normal.  It does require a finicky flick to close her up tight.

[lostsniper308]

If a chambered round isn't flush with the chamber face or slightly above it to take up any barrel to frame gap, you won't get good accuracy since latch engagement won't be the same each time, consistent latch engagement = accuracy. There isn't enough leverage in closing the action to force a crush fit as you would get with a bolt action. So, if your neck sized brass isn't fitting completely in the chamber, you're not gonna get good accuracy. If you can close the action with a round chambered and still have the same frame to barrel gap as it is without a round chambered, you're good to go. But I think if you're relying on the action forcing the round in with no gap, you'll probably find a gap if you look for it, even tho it locks up.

Tim

could you attach a leverage bar or something to the trigger guard like the the Ruger No.1 or Mossberg SSi-one?

[quickdtoo]

could you attach a leverage bar or something to the trigger guard like the the Ruger No.1 or Mossberg SSi-one?

It's best to just size brass so it loads ok without any interference in chambering and thus causing lock up issues which can be frustrating.

Tim

[ncsurveyor]

could you attach a leverage bar or something to the trigger guard like the the Ruger No.1 or Mossberg SSi-one?

I milled that over, no pun intended.  So far I don't see a need unless I can't seat my rounds.

Since its pistol gripped, something creative would have to be done to get a lever bar onto the action that wouldn't interfere with the lumber.  I've got a few ideas I toyed with, but felt OK with my lock up, so I didn't implement them.

Soldier, your more than welcome to use any of the ideas from this (at your own risk, of course   )

If anyone asks, call it an "Alex style stock"  Named it after my daughter.  

[lostsniper308]

Alex Style Stock, i'll remember it.
I was thinking this leverage bar would only extend to the stock when its closed.
I saved a copy of the picture of the action closed, opened it with paint application and used the line tool to draw a thick line from the bottom of the trigger guard to the stock. Thats the best i can do with my laptop. i'd post it if i knew how to put a pic from my computer

[ncsurveyor]

To put up pictures, you'd need an web based photo account (like photobucket.com)  If you want, email it to me, and I'll post her.

[lostsniper308]

well i just got a photobucket account and tried posting it and it doesn't look like it worked anyhow.
I sent an E-mail just now too

[ncsurveyor]

here:

[lostsniper308]

ahhahaa i told you ya didn't have to show it and my artistic talent  does it get the idea across?

[ncsurveyor]

That was one of the things I toyed with, but, the metal would come no further away from the point of rotation than the actual end of the receiver, therefore, it wouldn't provide anymore leverage than the receiver alone.  Also, with it being that far away from the top of the stock, it would be harder to grasp than just the receiver body proper.

I thought of extending the lever arm so it entered a into the thumbhole area.  Bending the lever so that, when action closed, the lever would ride flush with the top of the thumbhole and out of the way.  This would require a slot in the pistol grip.

[lostsniper308]

would have the bar being curved help at all, i know Ruger No1s have a curved leverage bar

[ncsurveyor]

That's style.  Unfortunately, as far as lever bars go, distance from the fulcrum is the key.  If that slot through the pistol grip wasn't so bothersome to me, running the lever to a scuttle hole at the rear of the stock would be the most advantageous.  (that's my go to plan, and its going to be a tough one to implement in an already built stock)

It seemed like the most logical was to size the brass for an unimpeded lock up or stick with factory loads.

[wcf3030]

Very nice!
Looking forward to the finished product.

[superjay01]

Pretty cool concept I think. Hope it turns out well for you.

[quickdtoo]

The lever on the trigger guard might help IF the trigger guard was metal, but the plastic would likely break sooner or later.

Tim

[lostsniper308]

i wondered about that too, i thought if it was attached to the trigger guard properly it wouldn't be a problem.

[eskimo36]

How about a pic from the top and the bottom?

[trotterlg]

If you are using the barrel lug for the recoil lug I think you will shear it off in short order.  Other users have sheared them off by just adding weight to the forearm, and I have knocked a couple off on purpose while stubbing a barrel, and it doesn't take much effort to get it off.  What round is it chambered for?  You may want to think of using a long front hinge pin into bushings in the stock for it to pivot on and use that to take up the recoil. Your lever for opening and closing the action could be attached to the bolt hole that normally mounts the rear stock and made to look somethng like a lever gun.   Larry

[ncsurveyor]

If you are using the barrel lug for the recoil lug I think you will shear it off in short order.  Other users have sheared them off by just adding weight to the forearm, and I have knocked a couple off on purpose while stubbing a barrel, and it doesn't take much effort to get it off.  What round is it chambered for?  You may want to think of using a long front hinge pin into bushings in the stock for it to pivot on and use that to take up the recoil. Your lever for opening and closing the action could be attached to the bolt hole that normally mounts the rear stock and made to look somethng like a lever gun.   Larry

Larry,

Its a .243 right now. (thinking about finding a .204 for it).   I am concerned about shear there, and hopefully the reinforcement I provided around the barrel lug will hold.  Once the recoil lug was made, and bedding in the stock was formed to it, that's when I bedded the hinge bushings, so, in theory, they should be taking some of the recoil also.  Mind you that 10-32 screws and nylon inserts may not be optimum, but I am set to continuing drilling through the current hinge pin, and slipping a 3/16 in. pin through it from side (bushing) to side (bushing).  I'd like to avoid removing the pin in its entirety unless absolutely necessary, but replacing it with a full length 3/8ths pin was actually design number 1 when I started this, and can be done. 

This lug shear contingency is why I bedded the side bushings through the aluminum side rails.  If I need to change the locus of the recoil to the hinge, it would better distribute recoil from the round focal point.  Of course, the recoil dynamic would be odd, i.e.  BARRELL push back on RECEIVER, RECEIVER pull back on HINGE, HINGE push back on stock.

I looked over your project a while ago, and was hoping you'd get to the "dovetailing the barrel stage" just to get some guidance :-)

Thanks for the advice,

Jeff

[trotterlg]

I did mill a slot across the barrel for a 22 hornet conversion of a Remington 581 I am doing, I then use a cross bolt in the stock for the recoil lug.  Could work for you if you have enough barrel thickness to mill the slot.  Larry

[PartsMan]

I thought about trying something like that only opposite.
Mount the receiver solid in the stock.
Then have a "forked" forearm that the barrel can fold down through.
FULL FLOATED HANDI !
Decided it would be too bulky for hunting though.
Someone into bench shooting could try it.

[ncsurveyor]

I did mill a slot across the barrel for a 22 hornet conversion of a Remington 581 I am doing, I then use a cross bolt in the stock for the recoil lug.  Could work for you if you have enough barrel thickness to mill the slot.  Larry

Should have enough room for that, with the varmint barrel.

Eskimo, I'll get those pictures as soon as I can.

[ncsurveyor]

completed (nearly) profile


from the bottom (action area)


from top - shows bedded area for lug.  slots on inside are for the pins on the receiver (they extend out just a wee bit)  better to groove the wood, than grind the pins.