450 Marlin.

[Redhawk1]

GEMSBUCK, I never hunted elephants either, and I have not taken any Brown bear of any sort. But with that said, you are no better than any of us because you have taken a few animals we haven't.

Exactly what is your point and agenda in this thread? Other than the obvious.

This thread started as a general question and you turned it into dangerous game and a look what I have done thread. Now lets get back on track.

[GEMSBUCK]

Redhawk my point is ans still is what I typed in my first post on this thread...beats me why anyone would want a 450M or 45-70 when a 458WM is more versital .
 I am not better than anyone but when I read a comment so obviously jaded such as the recent (elephants are just big dumb barn doors that will stand there an let you walk up and shoot them) I cannot help but point out the obvious inexperinece of the poster.Let me assure you I've killed enough browns to see them for what they are...and unless POed they are about as unDangerous as it comes. Or when someone screams BS about a rifle/caliber I know exists yes I will point that out. If they can't deal with that it only shows their ignorance not mine. Also reading online message boards does not equate to hands on knowledge..the internet would be much better off without so many gleening their "facts" from it.

 FTR I have typed a few times in this thread about the merits of a 450M on deer and small black bears. I have also posed the question is my 45Colt is not to be considered a big bore in a lever gun....

[Cabin4]

 
And I didn't mention grizzly and browns because anyone whom has hunted buffalo and elephant knows that the bears don't have the bone structure or tenacity to life that those do.

GEMSBUCK,

I consider griz and brown a much more likely target for a hunter. These are extremely dangerous game who will die if shot by a 45/70. Who the heck would want to shoot a gigantic dumb elephant anyway?? Shooting an elephant is as challenging as shoting the side of a barn. Yes, hard to kill. But if this is the only measure of dangours game you have, then your meausrement is way off. Your putting to many caveats on your previous statements, now. The fact is not all African countries have this so call law on Cape or Elephant. Sum do , yes but as I said its to safe gaurd againts idiots who would try and hunt Cape or Elephant with a cowboy load from the 45/70. When properlly loaded, the 45/70 will kill and has killed both Cape & Elephant.

BTW: As you stated above, you don't need to have hunted cape or elephant to "Know" their bone structure is larger. Anyone with an once of sense can determine that. I'm responding to your statements thats its "Illegal" to hunt dangours game with the 45/70 or 450 marlin. The fact is your just dead-a wrong or intentianally misleading people here.

Well one thing is VERY apparent from this comment of yours...You've never hunted elephants...and BTW I've killed a few coastal and 2 inland grizzlies in my time...how many have you put in the salt?

GEMSBUCK,
Your right, I never have and never want to hunt big, dumb elephants either. I find nothing appealing about it at all. To me, it’s like hunting for buildings in the city. I could care less if that’s what someone wants to do, but it’s not for me.

Yes, I have taken Griz. Weather I have or have not, is totally irrelevant anyway.... It has nothing to do with your statements that it’s illegal to hunt dangers game with the 45/70. Even an anti-hunter or anti-gun owner could challenge you on this point.

So whets your new point in this line of questioning and diversion tactics? I know: Your just trying to distance yourself from earlier false and misleading statements?

Why don't you just admit you were wrong or purposely misleading everyone to advance your position of coming here to simply bash the 45/70 & 450 Marlin for your own self satisfaction, to irritate people and hi-jack the thread....

[Cabin4]

Redhawk my point is ans still is what I typed in my first post on this thread...beats me why anyone would want a 450M or 45-70 when a 458WM is more versital .

Further proof that you have absolutely no idea what your taking about.......... To suggest that by any objective & abstract measure, that the 458WM is more versatile then the 45-70 is an admission of your complete and total ignorance of hunting, shooting and ballistics (terminal, exterior & internal).

When do we just shut this one down?

[nomosendero]

Redhawk my point is ans still is what I typed in my first post on this thread...beats me why anyone would want a 450M or 45-70 when a 458WM is more versital .

Further proof that you have absolutely no idea what your taking about.......... To suggest that by any objective & abstract measure, that the 458WM is more versatile then the 45-70 is an admission of your complete and total ignorance of hunting, shooting and ballistics (terminal, exterior & internal).

When do we just shut this one down?

Yes, & one 458 is not a 458WM at all. If you can't use a factory round, but must use a stubby 300gr, then it is not a 458WM, rather it is a gun where a reloader uses 458 brass. I am still wondering about the bullet choices for a 338WM in a 600/660 action.

[EsoxLucius]

Redhawk my point is ans still is what I typed in my first post on this thread...beats me why anyone would want a 450M or 45-70 when a 458WM is more versital .

Further proof that you have absolutely no idea what your taking about.......... To suggest that by any objective & abstract measure, that the 458WM is more versatile then the 45-70 is an admission of your complete and total ignorance of hunting, shooting and ballistics (terminal, exterior & internal).

When do we just shut this one down?

Yes, & one 458 is not a 458WM at all. If you can't use a factory round, but must use a stubby 300gr, then it is not a 458WM, rather it is a gun where a reloader uses 458 brass. I am still wondering about the bullet choices for a 338WM in a 600/660 action.

Must use bullets made for the 33 Winchester.

[moxgrove]

    
.45-70 vs. 416 Rigby
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2005, 08:46:18 PM »
   Reply with quote
1st allow me to apologize as I jumped in on this thread then because of work commitments have not been back for sometime.
 The original question that began this thread as I recall was pretty simple 45-70 vs 416.
My original reply as well as a few others was in regards to that. I still hold fast to those comments: a quality handload without any pressure signs using a 350-400 gr bullet is equal to a factory loaded 416. Though when one compares a handload 416 to a handloaded 45-70 the 45-70 pales.
 What is so hard to understand about that?
 Will the 45-70 using a 350 Gr Nosler Partion pushed at 1800FPS + kill any DG animal ....You bet it will at the normal ranges for DG shooting. Is that same bullet going to do it the same as a 375,416,458Lott..... YOU BET IT WILL. Is the 45-70 a stopper...I'd hate to bet my life on it!
 If I had only 1 rifle to hunt EVERY animal in Africa with it  I'd take a 30-06 with quality 220 gr bullets and kill everything that walk in that land!


 Interesting reading. Your opinion appears to have changed on the performance of the 45/70

[DalesCarpentry]

Hey guys. I just bought a new unfired 450 Marlin barrel for my NEF Handi Rifle. How do you guys like the 450. I am really looking forward to shooting a big bore. I think I am going to put the Pentax Gameseeker 3x9x40 on it. It has the bullet drop reticle. What scope are you guys using? I also have been thinking of the Burris with the bullet drop compensator. I would also like to hear some stories about Deer / Elk / Moose and bear being taken with this round. I am going to use it for deer. Well tell what you think of it.

Well guy's I asked a simple question and all I can say this thread has run a muck. Thanks to those of you that had real feed back on the 450 Marlin.    Dale

[Rev Buck]

Hey Dale,
Yes this one did pretty much go off on a tangent that's for sure.  Here's a 480 pound black bear I took with my .450 Marlin.  I shot him right in the heart and he ran just a little ways, leaving a blood trail you could follow on a dead run.  I could see him blowing blood out both sides as he ran.  I've never seen such as that with a black bear, and I've hunted them a lot.  As I said earlier, I really enjoy the .450 and escpecially like it for a black bear round.  Blessings, Rev

[DalesCarpentry]

Wow very nice bear. When I get a 450 it would be for the brush here in Pa. That would include deer and blackbear.  Dale

[handirifle]

Dale
It's a hot 45-70, the marlin rifle is actually a bit stronger then the 45-70 model, due to barrel threads, and if you reload, the world is wide open.

You MIGHT have trouble finding factory ammo if you travel, I don't really know, but for that matter, the 45-70 isn't real common either.  Not like either one is a 30-06.

If the 450 appeals to you get it.

[Redhawk1]

Dale
It's a hot 45-70, the marlin rifle is actually a bit stronger then the 45-70 model, due to barrel threads, and if you reload, the world is wide open.

Where did you get this information from?

[quickdtoo]

I dunno what Handirifle's source is, but the 450 Marlin and the 308 MX have different threads than the other 1895s, Tom Ray is a Tool & Gage Engineer for Marlin Firearms  that posts at MO.

Tim

http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=19533&highlight=450+marlin

[teddy12b]

Rev,
     Very nice Bear!  Looks like you did a great job.

[Rev Buck]

Thanks! 

[mk454]

let's sum this discussion up.

1) 450 marlin -- good round or not? 
   -----yes-------

2) 458 wm -- more powerful?
   ----yes, fpe wise----
3) 450 marlin -- powerful enough to kill anything that walks?
   ----yes and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.  nothing left to discuss here.-----
4) 416 more powerful than a 450 marlin or 45/70?
   ----sure, fpe wise, more effective on a cape buff at 100 yards, debateable.
5) a marlin guide gun more packable and quick than any bolt action the above rounds are available in.
   ----yes, pretty much not in doubt either.
6) are there advantages to both sides?
  -----yes, and which appeals to you is up to you and doesn't make you an idiot if you pick on the side of the levergun and doesn't make you unknowledgeable even if gemsbuck says so.
7) are the regs on dangerous game with fpe limits in some countries pretty much stupid.
   -----yes


  which calibers would i want in a charge?

----ANY I COULD RELIABLY PUT IN THE CNS, if not then you're in a bad place, just watch mark sullivan hit a cape buff in the chest with 2 600 nitro shells and it doesn't miss a beat!!!!!!!!! so you would i trust a levergun with a 450 marlin hardcast as a stopper, you bet, as long as i was quick and accurate with it and could hit the brain.

[handirifle]

Initially, I got my info from MO, just as quick stated, but I called marlin and talked to (sorry never got the name as I didn't think I'd have to prove it) someone in service dept, as I was asking about the possiblity of rechambering a reg 336 to the 308MX.  It was not recommended, as i was told that the "V" thread on the 308 and 450 are stronger than the square thread of the 336 and 1895.

From that, I was told those receivers are a slight bit stronger.

Hope this shed a little light.  I was hopeful for a rechamber till this.