Author Topic: MUZZLE BRAKE 450/45/70 (Read 5834 times)

Mac11700 · « **Reply #30 on:** May 15, 2007, 07:47:12 AM »

Basically...all of the energy figures are fine & dandy and can show what a rifle will produce in measurable numbers factoring in all of the known values of weight and all......but..what can't be measured is the " Perceived recoil "...Every individual is unique in this regards..and it will be different from one person to the next..in a Handi rifle especially..no 2 people are built exactly the same nor have the same pain threshold.....Like I said before...Make the rifle fit the shooter correctly..and the Perceived recoil will be diminished...Add weight to the stock..and the rifles momentum will be reduced and not only will the perceived recoil be reduced..but also the measurable recoil as well...Adding a larger more absorbent recoil pad will spread out the rearward force...diminishing both as well....While adding a soft cheek piece hardly adds any weight to the gun..it will dampen an ill fitting rifles stocks upward force into the cheek bone..and adding this alone will reduce the Perceived Recoil of some of the nasty hard kicking rifles...to levels most wouldn't believe...even for the Weatherby's...

Learning to handle these big bores can be difficult..but not entirely impossible...Shooting them from a standard bench position is an invite to a-lot of pain and discomfort..Shooting incorrectly from a standing position does the same..You should shoot them from a complete upright sitting position at the bench..and from a relax upright position when standing..You body must roll with the recoil and the rifle must be allowed to rise but still be controlled..If you are rigid and full of anticipation of the recoil...you will find it is more painful than being relaxed...every time...This I can assure you...A fitted rifle is a joy to shoot from any position...and makes you a better marksman...and it doesn't cost a whole lot to have it done..

Mac

Sourdough · « **Reply #31 on:** May 15, 2007, 07:52:48 AM »

I've started shooting a Weatherby 338/378 with factory screw on brake this last year. Yes I can shoot it with out the brake, but I don't want to. I always carry and use hearing protection when taking it out shooting. I am not the most populer guy at the range when shooting it. But the brake sure takes the bite out of the recoil.

So far one Moose at 800 yards, one shot, Moose took three steps and fell. That's my reason for shooting a big gun, just for those that wonder why. Haven't found any wolves yet when carrying it, just give me time.

knight0334 · « **Reply #32 on:** May 15, 2007, 10:14:42 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on May 15, 2007, 05:46:27 AM

For anyone interested, the 460 Weatherby provides right at 100lbs recoil, close to triple that of the 450 Marlin. I can't imagine anyone enjoying "plinking" with full house loads in that cannon, 500gr loads at 2600 fps, factory ammo costs $100 a box of 20!!

Tim

My uncle reloads his 460 stuff, and just about everything else too. I'm not sure which kicks more, his 350gr or 500gr loads.

Maybe we're not right in the head or something.. probably not considering we prefer to hunt chucks with 45-70's and larger rifles.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #33 on:** May 15, 2007, 10:25:11 AM »

Full house 350gr loads run close to 2950fps, even that can't be "fun" to shoot very many times!!

If that is fun for ya, you'd really enjoy a .577 T-rex at 168lbs recoil, or even better, the .700 Nitro at 235lbs!!!

Tim

knight0334 · « **Reply #34 on:** May 15, 2007, 02:32:39 PM »

No thanks... I wont go much further than the 460wby. The first 2-3 shots isn't bad, after that it starts to wear on you.

I may be messed up in the head, but I ain't dumb.

I can shoot full house 45-70's most of the day, so long as ammo and target hold out. My record of top end levergun to low end Ruger #1 loads is 50 in one afternoon on chucks and the occasional crow coming down for the splattered remains of the fore mentioned chuck from pointblank to 500yards. That was thru my Handi.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #35 on:** May 15, 2007, 02:47:28 PM »

Now that does sound like fun!! Sure wish we had groundhogs here, but the best I can do is ground squirrels, and have to drive a while to get to em. $:-\$

Mac11700 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 15, 2007, 06:25:45 PM »

Quote from: knight0334 on May 15, 2007, 10:14:42 AM

Quote from: quickdtoo on May 15, 2007, 05:46:27 AM
For anyone interested, the 460 Weatherby provides right at 100lbs recoil, close to triple that of the 450 Marlin. I can't imagine anyone enjoying "plinking" with full house loads in that cannon, 500gr loads at 2600 fps, factory ammo costs $100 a box of 20!!

Tim

My uncle reloads his 460 stuff, and just about everything else too. I'm not sure which kicks more, his 350gr or 500gr loads.

Maybe we're not right in the head or something.. probably not considering we prefer to hunt chucks with 45-70's and larger rifles.

No...not really...some folks just have a lower threshold of recoil...

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #37 on:** May 15, 2007, 06:31:31 PM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on May 15, 2007, 06:25:45 PM

No...not really...some folks just have a lower threshold of recoil...

Mac

some folks just have a lower threshold of ~~recoil~~...pain!!!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 16, 2007, 04:24:01 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on May 15, 2007, 06:31:31 PM

Quote from: Mac11700 on May 15, 2007, 06:25:45 PM

No...not really...some folks just have a lower threshold of recoil...

Mac

some folks just have a lower threshold of ~~recoil~~...pain!!!

If it's painful...then the gun and/or the shooter aren't prepared properly,which is what I've been talking about...Where is the pain.and what is causing it..? Once this has been determined..take the necessary steps to correct it..If it is from a ill fitted rifle..correct it..Your face is the first place of contact from the recoil...the comb of it has to be the correct height..Too high a comb..file it down and add a soft cheek piece...too low...add an adjustable type of cheek piece and make it perfect.. Too long a stock...shorten it and install additional weight and the best recoil pad available..To short a stock..add a spacer kit and add he weight & pad...If it is from a poor shooting position..change it..sit or stand upright and don't lean into the recoil being all tensed up...allow the rifle to move you and the muzzle to climb...The physical aspect of recoil is the easiest to overcome...the mental aspect isn't...If you are afraid of the gun...you'll never become proficient with it...You have to over come your fear..so your body will relax..and you have to set your gun up as to not cause you to become afraid of it hurting you...It's that simple.No matter what cartridge it is...

Mac

knight0334 · « **Reply #39 on:** May 16, 2007, 06:40:16 AM »

I agree to some extent, but there are some people out there that the recoil of a 7lb .223Rem bothers them. Intimidation from the recoil/rifle is a big factor. We all know big powerful cartridge are capable of kicking the snotcrap out of ya, but if you really want to shoot something like that - you cant let it mess with your head.

With a well designed gun, proper hold, stance, recoil pad, and load variance - just about anything is bearable.

-----

BTW, here is what we shoot, bottom of the list of models.

http://www.weatherby.com/products/guns.asp?prd=Rifles&prd_sub_type=1&prod_code=DXS306SR4O

cowboyup453 · « **Reply #40 on:** May 16, 2007, 07:25:02 AM »

check this out shooting the 577 T-rex.
http://emuse.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/16789

Mac11700 · « **Reply #41 on:** May 16, 2007, 07:33:27 AM »

Quote

I agree to some extent, but there are some people out there that the recoil of a 7lb .223Rem bothers them

True enough...but then if this is the case...for their own sake...they really shouldn't be shooting larger than that then...and since this is about shooting a big bore cartridge...as the old saying goes..." If you can't run with the big dogs...don't get off the porch "

I don't think anyone will be chambering the T-Rex in a Handi anytime soon...

Mac

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #42 on:** May 16, 2007, 07:34:08 AM »

Looks like a rabbit gun!

How 'bout a 4 Bore?:

http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=6154

rex6666 · « **Reply #43 on:** May 16, 2007, 11:42:59 AM »

YEA Quick
not very enjoyable plinking, come to think of it their were 2 happy days with my 340 weatherby, the day i bought it and the day i sold it.

BANG_OW · « **Reply #44 on:** May 16, 2007, 12:12:25 PM »

I have a .340 Weatherby myself, has about the same trajectory as my .22-250. Killed a moose, caribou, and a black bear with it. My .35 Whelen does everything it does, with less recoil. Still have it though, just don't shoot it much.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #45 on:** May 16, 2007, 02:56:08 PM »

I got my turn in the barrel today shooting the 300gr TSX at 2700fps in the 375H&H Encore, even with 4½lbs of shot in the stock, the Limbsaver recoil pad and me wearing a Past Magnum shoulder pad, it's almost uncomfortable, I quit shooting it before I made it to the top of my load ladder, it hurt me once when I didn't have it quite in the right spot, after that it was getting uncomfortable to shoot, was afraid I might start flinching. Accuracy was just getting good, too!!

Tim

jmckinley · « **Reply #46 on:** May 16, 2007, 05:44:06 PM »

I tried this once lets try again. I have enjoyed this topic for a couple of reasons it sounds as if we are comparing who can take the most pain. I have no problem up to a 375 H&H as long as it is off hand. On the bench around the 06 is my limit. If I try something larger my head will fall off. i am rebuilding my rifle battery and it will include 06??, 270, 7mm-08, 25-06, 243, 22-250 and 223. These rifles will allow me hunt anything in the lower 48 with out a problem and I'll be happy with them. If boils down on what your recoil tolerance is not mine, Mac's or Quick's but yours and yours alone. I wish I could tell u my 700 Nitro isa fun but i have never seen one let alone pop a cap on one nor would I. if a 223 is to much shoot a 22 if ypo can handle a 460 thats great it's your shoulder. Jess

Mac11700 · « **Reply #47 on:** May 16, 2007, 07:11:15 PM »

I don't know how much total recoil I absorbed during this shooting session...http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,116614.0.htmlI've never tried to figure it out..but...80 rounds of 2oz. 12ga 3" mags is quite a bit..No extra shoulder pads..lead sleds..strap down rifle rest... soft cheek piece..or extra lead in the stock...Just shooting in a long sleeve t-shirt off my Lyman front rest and Cadwell rear...40 rounds were with a non-ported choke tube..and 40 were shot with a ported tube..stock fit and design certainly helped...as well as a great recoil pad...The porting did help in the recoil and some in the muzzle climb...If you need it...by all means have it ported...as JMc said...it is your shoulder...the heavier the load...the better porting works...

jmckinley · « **Reply #48 on:** May 17, 2007, 02:29:11 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on May 16, 2007, 07:11:15 PM

I don't know how much total recoil I absorbed during this shooting session...http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,116614.0.htmlI've never tried to figure it out..but...80 rounds of 2oz. 12ga 3" mags is quite a bit..No extra shoulder pads..lead sleds..strap down rifle rest... soft cheek piece..or extra lead in the stock...Just shooting in a long sleeve t-shirt off my Lyman front rest and Cadwell rear...40 rounds were with a non-ported choke tube..and 40 were shot with a ported tube..stock fit and design certainly helped...as well as a great recoil pad...The porting did help in the recoil and some in the muzzle climb...If you need it...by all means have it ported...as JMc said...it is your shoulder...the heavier the load...the better porting works...

Mac I agree with that, I shoot a Mossy 835 at geese and it's ported and it does help in recoil and muzzle rise. I have had both ported and non-ported versions and i'll take the ported version anytime. I know that shotguns produces more recoil than most if not all the rifles i have ever pulled the trigger on. In this case port it and enjoy. Jess

Mac11700 · « **Reply #49 on:** May 17, 2007, 04:53:08 AM »

I was wondering just how much those 3" mags really recoiled as compared to some of our rifle cartridges...so I went looking for the answer...Here's where I started at...http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm and I went to where Chuck got his info from...here..http://www.biggameinfo.com/RecoilCalc.aspx... taking a shell apart and weighing everything is easy enough to do...as well as weighing the gun which came out right at 8lbs...Mine gave...60.5 ft.lbs of recoil and 22.1 recoil velocity...Not quite a 458 Win Mag level...but close...

Here's some other figures Chuck has there...
* 6mm Rem. (100 grain, MV 3100 fps) = 10.0 ft. lbs. & 9.0 fps
* .270 Win. (140 grain, MV 3000 fps) = 17.1 ft. lbs. & 11.7 fps
* .30-06 (180 grain, MV 2700 fps) = 20.3 ft. lbs. & 12.8 fps
* .35 Whelen (250 grain, MV 2400 fps) = 26.1 ft. lbs. & 14.5 fps
* .450 Marlin (350 grain, MV 2100 fps) = 35.7 ft. lbs. & 17.0 fps
* .458 Win. Mag. (500 grain, MV 2050 fps) = 68.9 ft. lbs. & 23.5 fps

Funny isn't it...some folks don't have any problem with shooting a 12ga. with standard 1-1/8oz. field loads...but can't handle a rifle bigger than a 223...which is why I said this earlier...

Quote

If you are afraid of the gun...you'll never become proficient with it...You have to over come your fear..so your body will relax..and you have to set your gun up as to not cause you to become afraid of it hurting you...It's that simple.No matter what cartridge it is...

I think most folks who have recoil problems are subconsciously afraid of the gun and are way too tense when they sit down at the bench...causing it to be a more painful experience than needs be...Doing this with an ill fitting gun and crappy recoil pad...It's no wonder...When they are shooting from a standing position like when hunting are shooting trap or skeet... their bodies absorb the recoil better making it less painful...and they don't even notice it...

Mac

jmckinley · « **Reply #50 on:** May 17, 2007, 05:32:20 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on May 17, 2007, 04:53:08 AM

I was wondering just how much those 3" mags really recoiled as compared to some of our rifle cartridges...so I went looking for the answer...Here's where I started at...http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm and I went to where Chuck got his info from...here..http://www.biggameinfo.com/RecoilCalc.aspx...taking a shell apart and weighing everything is easy enough to do...as well as weighing the gun which came out right at 8lbs...Mine gave...60.5 ft.lbs of recoil and 22.1 recoil velocity...Not quite a 458 Win Mag level...but close...

Here's some other figures Chuck has there...
* 6mm Rem. (100 grain, MV 3100 fps) = 10.0 ft. lbs. & 9.0 fps
* .270 Win. (140 grain, MV 3000 fps) = 17.1 ft. lbs. & 11.7 fps
* .30-06 (180 grain, MV 2700 fps) = 20.3 ft. lbs. & 12.8 fps
* .35 Whelen (250 grain, MV 2400 fps) = 26.1 ft. lbs. & 14.5 fps
* .450 Marlin (350 grain, MV 2100 fps) = 35.7 ft. lbs. & 17.0 fps
* .458 Win. Mag. (500 grain, MV 2050 fps) = 68.9 ft. lbs. & 23.5 fps

Funny isn't it...some folks don't have any problem with shooting a 12ga. with standard 1-1/8oz. field loads...but can't handle a rifle bigger than a 223...which is why I said this earlier...
Quote
If you are afraid of the gun...you'll never become proficient with it...You have to over come your fear..so your body will relax..and you have to set your gun up as to not cause you to become afraid of it hurting you...It's that simple.No matter what cartridge it is...
I think most folks who have recoil problems are subconsciously afraid of the gun and are way too tense when they sit down at the bench...causing it to be a more painful experience than needs be...Doing this with an ill fitting gun and crappy recoil pad...It's no wonder...When they are shooting from a standing position like when hunting are shooting trap or skeet... their bodies absorb the recoil better making it less painful...and they don't even notice it...

Mac

Mac the 1 9/16 load I shoot in my 7 3/4# 835 generates somethng in the 70+ foot ponds of recoil and the 22+ in recoil velocity. It's really a joy to take an overhead shot at a big honker with that load

I worry about a 300 mag i must be nuts, it's a baby compaired to my goose gun. Jess

Mac11700 · « **Reply #51 on:** May 17, 2007, 05:45:26 AM »

I know what you mean...Some times folks just get freaked out over nothing and worry needlessly about the smallest things

...but..I will say this...Put those same loads thru a un-altered handi...and you will have a whole different perspective of the matter...The stock design of your Mossberg is way different than a Handi rifle...just as my Elite is..and this accounts for a great deal when shooting heavy loads...which brings us full circle of what I originally posted...

Mac

ccoorreeyy · « **Reply #52 on:** May 22, 2007, 04:02:37 PM »

I got a 450 that I had fluted/chopped to 20" took the weight out of the stock, put a limbsaver on it. With the scope i'm in the 6lbs range. I'm a big boy that shoots mags alot. This thing hurts off the bench. Not that bad freehanded.