For under $2000.00 7.75 pound Rugers or 7 pound Savages with 2.5 x 8 Leupolds

[jimmyp50]

I am at a stage where I cannot see the reason to buy a Kimber, Remington, or Sako they just do not do that much more except look good. 

Assuming you wanted the best in accuracy, reliability, durability, totally trouble free operation for less than $2000.00 with scopes, rings, slings, in 30-06 and a matching twin in .338 WM to hunt anywhere and anything in the states.   Also any experience in each as to how many rounds between barrel cleaning before accuracy deteriorates to worse than 3 inch groups??  The Savage is lighter but I have heard the barrels foul faster and require more frequent cleanings? 

[k3yston3]

A 7 pound 338 is going to be quite lively when you touch it off....Especially in a Savage, in my experience Savage's have some of the worst perceived recoil due to stock design, but that is a moot point if you went to an aftermarket stock.  Do you need both a 338 and the '06?  Not really...The 338 is plenty to kill everything in N.America, sure it might be a bit overkill on antelope and small deer, but it would kill even the large brown bears with no problem.  If I was to spend the $2000 on a gun to kill everything in N.A. that weighed 7 or so pounds it would be a custom 338-06.  It would offer mostly everything that the 338 wmag would but with considerably less recoil.

[John R.]

What's wrong with the Remingtons? Also I would never shoot a rifle and not clean it until it opened groups up to 3". You also might want to consider one of the various 300 Mags.

[coyote trapper1928]

A 7 pound 338 is going to be quite lively when you touch it off....Especially in a Savage, in my experience Savage's have some of the worst perceived recoil due to stock design, but that is a moot point if you went to an aftermarket stock.  Do you need both a 338 and the '06?  Not really...The 338 is plenty to kill everything in N.America, sure it might be a bit overkill on antelope and small deer, but it would kill even the large brown bears with no problem.  If I was to spend the $2000 on a gun to kill everything in N.A. that weighed 7 or so pounds it would be a custom 338-06.  It would offer mostly everything that the 338 wmag would but with considerably less recoil.

 Does the increased precieved recoil in the Savage rifle also include the Classic American series of rifles?Model 14 and 114 ?

[k3yston3]

 Does the increased precieved recoil in the Savage rifle also include the Classic American series of rifles?Model 14 and 114 ?

I don't know about the 14/114.  I haven't shot one, but they are much better looking than the Savage that I had.  My savage had the factory Tupperware and I sold the rifle as I purchased a CZ that was much nicer.   Now, the Savage stock might fit some, but I have yet to find a factory rifle that fits me well as I have long arms and like my LOP at 14.25-14.5".

[jimmyp50]

I don't think I would get a Remington as it would be in the $700 range and has "the J lock".  Then what do you really get with Remington these days?? For the money it is really between Savage and Ruger, unless you are going to build a custom gun then I just cannot see spending more. You can buy a Kimber Montana for $1000.00 but a $400 Savage of $550 Ruger will shoot as good and probably be just as dependable.  The "buy a Savage and put on a $200 Bell and Carlson Carbolite stock" seems to be an idea.   As far as cleaning this is important to me so please let me know if you have experience that says this brand gun usually has a rougher barrel and you cannot put 50-60 rounds through a gun without it shooting into at least 2 inches at the same point of impact!  I am done with cleaning guns so much, you clean them and then they shoot to a different POI for a few rounds....so why clean so much unless you are a benchrest, varmint or prairie dog hunter.  I am looking for something that with the same load will put 1-2 bullets into the same place within 1-2 inches day after day, month after month and then clean it put it away for the year and start over again...

[Beers]

Then what do you really get with Remington these days??

Generally speaking, you get an extremely accurate, good looking, dependable, tough, affordable American made rifle, with a very nice (for hunting purposes) fully adjustable trigger.

so why clean so much unless you are a benchrest, varmint or prairie dog hunter.

Two words: barrel life.

I am looking for something that with the same load will put 1-2 bullets into the same place within 1-2 inches day after day, month after month and then clean it put it away for the year and start over again...

Good luck with that.

There are plenty of Rems available w/o the j-lock, and if you're gonna go with a synthetic stock they're available for much less than $700.... more like $380 - $400 tops. Then you wouldn't have to bother with buying an aftermarket stock for the Savage, which would make it $200 more than the Remington.

Having said all that, there's not a damn thing wrong w/ a Ruger or a Savage. You could meet your 2 rifle goal for well under $2000 with either of them, though of the two of 'em I'd go w/ the Savage. Savage has a much nicer trigger, though it may not be as good looking.

[jimmyp50]

I cannot see that not cleaning a barrel wears it out.  Too much cleaning wears one out if not done properly.  If the Remington has a smoother better barrel than a Savage it is something to consider, of course they only chamber the 338 iin one model the Xstream something or another.  I do not think it is an impossible goal to have a gun shoot 60 rounds without cleaning into a 2 inch circle at 100 yards over the course of several months.  If it does not then the mounts, the scope, or the barrel must be loose or bad. That provided a synthetic stock and no wood warp...

[no guns here]

If you want both for under $2000 then my answer won't help much... but if you want ONE for under $2K and another for under $2K then I would strongly suggest looking for a Blaser R93.  You can get the R93 with synthetic stock for the $1500 range and then the $500 Leupold.  Standard calibers (standard for Blaser which means cheaper) include the .30-06 and I believe the 9.3x62 which isn't quite as fast as the .338 but carries  heavier bullet, just a little less than the .375 H&H.  The Blaser's that I have shot have all been very accurate and extremely fast to cycle.  I have a Blaser Professional on order for myself in .308 for use in Germany.  If you try one you might really like it.


ngh

[Zachary]

For the .30-06, I would look at the Tikka T3 stainless.  Go to ozarkguns.com.  They are selling them for around $500 right now on sale. 

I would normally recommend Tikka T3 in just about any cartridge except for the magnums because the T3s are too light for a .338WM.  As such, I'm not quite sure what I would recommend in a .338WM.  Between Ruger and Savage...heck....I don't know because I am not a big fan of either of them.  I really would recommend a Remington, but you are apparently strongly opposed to the J lock.  Browning would definately be out of the question because it is even more expensive than the Remington, and closer to a Sako and Kimber.  If I just had to chose between a Ruger and Savage in .338WM, I would pick the Ruger.

Zachary

[kyelkhunter3006]

Pick up a couple of Howa 1500's in 30-06 and .338 for about $350 each.  Get two Bell and Carlson Carbelite stocks for $170 or so, and then put your Leupold's on them.  OR, you can get two Weatherby Vanguard MOA rifles for a  bit more with the B&C stocks already on them, with an accuracy guarantee.  You'd have two supremely shootable, all weather rifles that weigh in about 8-8.5 lbs loaded.  Highly accurate and dependable, simple design that you can work on in the field, good bottom metal units, and you'd be right at your $2000 give or take a little.  Probably less if you shop around for the stocks and scopes.

[Beers]

+1

Hadn't thought about the Vanguard, that'd be another damn fine way to meet your goals.

[billy_56081]

If I wanted accuracy and a good trigger, I'd buy a savage no ifs, no ands and no buts.

[Coyote Hunter]

I don't think I would get a Remington as it would be in the $700 range and has "the J lock".  Then what do you really get with Remington these days?? For the money it is really between Savage and Ruger, unless you are going to build a custom gun then I just cannot see spending more. You can buy a Kimber Montana for $1000.00 but a $400 Savage of $550 Ruger will shoot as good and probably be just as dependable.  The "buy a Savage and put on a $200 Bell and Carlson Carbolite stock" seems to be an idea.   As far as cleaning this is important to me so please let me know if you have experience that says this brand gun usually has a rougher barrel and you cannot put 50-60 rounds through a gun without it shooting into at least 2 inches at the same point of impact!  I am done with cleaning guns so much, you clean them and then they shoot to a different POI for a few rounds....so why clean so much unless you are a benchrest, varmint or prairie dog hunter.  I am looking for something that with the same load will put 1-2 bullets into the same place within 1-2 inches day after day, month after month and then clean it put it away for the year and start over again...

jimmyp50 –

My solitary Remington rifle is an M700 BDL in .308 Win I picked up at Gander Mountain just before Christmas, 2005.  Cost me all of $350 and looked like new.  First time at the range I took a bunch of  loads 168g A-MAX over Varget –  9 loads in all with each having a powder charge 0.5g different than its nearest neighbor(s).    The 9 cartridges went into 1.55” overall, which wasn’t too impressive.  What was impressive was there were only three holes – two singletons and one made by 8 separate shots.  The 8-shot group measured 0.155” wide by 0.610” tall center-to-center.  The rifle was made in July, 1975, so no J-lock.

More recently (last November) I picked up a like-new Ruger M77 for $350.  Made in 1984, chambered for .30-06.  A couple weeks ago I fnally got to try some handloads with it (H4350 and BL(C)-2 with 168g A-MAX bullets).  As with the Remington, all loads varied by 0.5g.  Nine H4350 loads went into 1.15” and the eight BL(C)-2 loads went into 1.0”.  Another used Ruger, a 1989 M77 .257 Roberts I picked up in 2004, often shoots under an inch at 200 yards.

The point is, don’t overlook the used inventory when deciding what to get.  There is a lot of junk available, but there are some great guns, too.  Same thing with scopes – most of my glass says “Leupold” and came broken in...

[jro45]

In Remington you get that 700 action witch is a great action. Most of my rifles are Rem and the all shoot with in an inch at 200 yds.