Author Topic: My official Ruger Rant (Read 3052 times)

Mr. Joe · « **on:** March 16, 2007, 09:59:39 AM »

Before you ask...yes I own a couple and am not some brand loyal cool-aider.

I was at my local dope (gun) dealer yesterday when the topic of controlled round feed came up. Now mind you, i am not a big fan of it anyways. I have guns that are push feed and guns with the Mauser extractor, and on the whole, the Mauser system has given me a lot more grief. Any who, one of the customers was looking at current CRF options and the shop employe/gunsmith mentioned the limber, the CZ, the 798 etc...but I was shocked when the Ruger 77 was not mentioned, so the nice guy that I am, I chimed in about the ruger. The smith quickly shot me down, saying the ruger is not a CRF. Now, I am not Layne Simpson, but I know my fair share about things that go boom. I was told that though the 77 has the non rotating extractor, its nothing more than a complicated push feed. Still not buying it, he took 4 77s off the shelf in various calibers. Making sure the environment was safe, and putting the safety in the middle so the bolt could still be manipulated he proceeded to load a round into the mag of each gun. Sure enough, on all three, when the bolt is pushed forward, and the case rime engaged by the extractor, a big enough bite was not taken to remove the round unless the bolt was slammed all the way into battery seating the round firmly into the extractors grip, thus proving his point. I was flabbergasted to say the least.

I rushed home to try the same thing on both my 77 7 mag and my 77 .308...same story! The round has to be fully pushed into the chamber for the extractor to grab enough of the rime to remove the cartridge. If you only go half way and then pull back, they just kind of vomit the round on top of the mag.

I am kind of pissed to say the least. I was willing to deal with the worst trigger on a current production rifle, the accuracy crapshoot, and the blued receivers that turn purple with age ( more on this below), but this is too much! I called the folks in Ct. and what’s more, was told that this type of function was normal, and that’s why you can load the ruger by putting a round in the chamber and letting the extractor jump over the rim like a push feed, where as in a mauser, it must be loaded from the mag.

What do you all think about this. This basically removes any advantage from having the mauser style extractor. The idea is that if you have a deformed bullet or blocked chamber, you could remove the round, and strip a fresh one from the mag. A ruger cannot do this! I tried 2 of my actual Mausers, and they work as designed. As soon as the round comes out of the mag box, the extractor has them firmly and will extract them.

As far as the bluing turning purple, all of my blued rugers have done this. It looks terrible and when I contacted ruger they said it was normal. It only does this on the receiver and none of my other guns do this. I have a couple Winchesters over 50 years old and several Remington’s that are roughly 30 years old and the bluing looks perfect. Why do rugers turn plum like this? Before anyone asks, I don’t use any weird solvents, just hopes number 9 and shooters choice.

Needless to say, I may have to sell of my rugers. I am very bitter right now!

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2007, 11:15:51 AM »

Quote

Needless to say, I may have to sell of my rugers. I am very bitter right now!

That's OK it's just the natural progression of things, ALL Ruger owners will eventually come to this point. I've gone through it and I feel better now that my safe is a Ruger free zone

GaryVA · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2007, 01:39:24 PM »

CRF M98, CZ550, mkII, RSM, M-70, etc, etc:

The cartridge is either in the mag box or not. When it is out of the mag box, the case head is behind the extractor claw. It is driven up by the angles of the ramp, rails, follower lip, and bullet/case shape as it is pushed forward. If it doesn't snap up in place it may be something as simple as the tension being too tight on the extractor.

I've owned at least one CRF rifle of every make listed above (with the exception of the RSM) that at least one of such model did what you described. The worst two were a last year production M-70 and a current production CZ. I easily corrected all w/ minor tuning w/ the exception of one CZ that required machining. All were corrected and all now feed properly.

I suggest if this individual does not know enough about CRF rifles to correct these feeding issues, he should not be considered a smith on CRF rifles.

GVA

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2007, 03:16:15 PM »

So

Have you ever had any feed issues?
Why let someone tell you to be unhappy?

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2007, 03:25:06 PM »

Quote from: Hairtrigger on March 16, 2007, 03:16:15 PM

So

Have you ever had any feed issues?
Why let someone tell you to be unhappy?

What's that supposed to mean?

I would probably never miss a deer with a 4 MOA rifle but that doesn't mean l would be satisfied with it. The guy expected CRF and that's darn well what he should have gotten.

Slamfire · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2007, 04:16:10 PM »

I can snap the extractor over a chambered round in any of my Arisakas. And the 6.5, at least, is a semi rimmed round. That don't mean they ain't controlled round feed. You can do the same thing with a Mauser too, just press on the long extractor between the lugs that touch the barrel.

Rogue Ram · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2007, 04:54:06 PM »

I guess it depends on what you care more about: reliable feeding or reliable extraction. Put it this way.....the Ruger is essentially a push feed with a controlled round ejection via that big claw. I gave up on Ruger bolt rifles quite awhile back for my own reasons, and despite numerous other perceived faults I see in them, feeding/ejection isn't one of them.

And by the way, feeding a single round into the chamber bypassing the magazine and snapping the extractor over the cartridge head on a Mauser system is a surefire way to weaken and eventually break the extractor.

RR

beemanbeme · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2007, 03:18:30 AM »

I thought that on the older models, say the M98's, the cartridge HAD to be cycled thru the magazine but in more contemporary rifles, the bolt face had been altered so they could be fed direct into the chamber?

?? $:-\$

GaryVA · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2007, 03:43:53 AM »

A bevel is put onto the extractor claw to alow it to ride over the rim of a cartridge placed directly into the chamber. The Williams extractor that was factory installed in the later M70 CRF "classics" is said to be of such quality to withstand the snapping over the cartridge w/out any wear or tear. I for one save this loading technique for emergencies.

As far as M98s w/out the bevel, you can pinch the extractor in the belly to flex the claw over the rim if needed. An additional technique (if the mag box has the space) is to slightly depress the +1 cartridge down over the full mag box just enough for the claw to be slid over the top. Then just release the pressure and allow it to spring up behind the claw.

Going back to the mkII or the newer mkII "Hawkeye" not being a CRF or being some sort of semi-CRF, that is absolute total BS. They are CRF as much as the others. Many of the mkIIs have burrs or rough surfaces and/or improper tension on the extractor. Depending on the cartridge/bullet (some inherently feed easier than others), some will come out of the box and not feed to 100% its capability. Every one I've placed my hands on could be made to feed like a champ with no more than minor polishing and adjustment of the extractor. Non required any other work. Every RSM I've ever owned had this extra attention to detail at the factory. This has been the only factory version that worked perfect out of the box.

The worst two out of the box I've had were an M70 Supergrade, M70 Featherweight, and an 550 Safari. They would pushfeed all the way and either bind or snap over. The two M70s were easily corrected w/ minor work, the CZ was corrected by reshaping the feed lip on the follower and relieving one side to eliminate binding.

GVA

Cement Man · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2007, 04:12:29 AM »

I have 9 Ruger rifles in my safe (M77MkII's, 10/22's, #1's, M77/22's). I hunt whitetail more than anything else and my "go to" gun is a Ruger. I like the way they are designed and the performance/reliability has been flawless.
Accuracy crapshoot? Not with me. All my 77's are more accurate than I am. I have some friends I shoot with, who are very good shots and handloaders, and get such phenomenal accuracy out of their (stock - unless trigger is changed or touched up) Ruger rifles that I am increasingly convinced the current line of M77's is quite underrated in their accuracy potential, and will shoot with any production rifle on the market.
Despite the horrendous references about their triggers, all that I have measured are between 6 and 7 lbs. and the quality of pull (in my experience) is fair to decent. And I have definitely found worse pulls on other production rifles. I have installed Timneys in my 77's as I find this a worthwhile improvement to an otherwise excellent rifle. I actually measure the trigger pull; however, and I cannot confirm that I have ever run across the reported "10 to 15#" pulls that are often parroted on forums.
I had a Ruger Blackhawk revolver that had a loading gate that turned "plum" many years ago. I sent it back to Ruger and they cheerfully rectified it. Super service, and my only problem with about 20 Rugers that I have owned since 1973 (as I recall the year I bought my first one).
Sounds to me like you liked your rifles OK until you were discovered to not know how they worked. Then - all the other (real or perceiived) issues get wrapped up into your rant. Funny how rhetoric changes - like "unless the bolt was slammed all the way into battery". when one gets embarassed. After shooting or witnessing 1000's of rounds cycled through Rugers, I have not seen any "slamming" required.
My Rugers work every time and work well. I like 'em. Including the design of the bolt and extractor.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2007, 04:14:09 AM »

My take on it is many "CRF" actions need to be tuned to be 100% CRF. I had to adjust my M70 classic extractor so it grabs the cases from BOTH sides of the magazine as the bolt strips them out. I have an older MKII M77 stainless that I can't tune to grab the cases from BOTH sides of the magazine. The original M98 Mausers have a fixed ejector and that probaly makes getting proper function with the extractor easier. I appears to me the M77 ejector is a part of the problem (if it is one) getting the extractor to grab cases from the left side of the magazine.

As for the way the Rugers "CRF" works (or doesn't) is different from push feed actions as the PF rifles need to have the bolt handle turned down to grab the case and the Ruger doesn't.

I like CRF over PF even if the CRF doesn't work as good as a Mauser M98 as long as my rifles feed, fire, and eject right. IMHO if both types work they have no advantage for the user IF the action is cycled properly. IF the action on a M77 is cycled properly, you'll never know whether it works as a "CRF" or not.

banen · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2007, 04:40:46 AM »

Tried sending this once already, didn't work, hope it doesn't show up 2x

Quote from: Hairtrigger on March 16, 2007, 03:16:15 PM

So

Have you ever had any feed issues?
Why let someone tell you to be unhappy?

I agree with the above. I have almost exclusively used Rugers in actual hunting situations and have never had a problem. You sighted a 7mm and 308 (I also have a 308) so I presume you aren't using them to hunt grizzlies or other dangerous game. I wouldn't worry about it. If you handle the bolt correctly, ie full forward and full back you won't have problems. If there isn't something toothy with claws bearing down on you I am sure you can keep enough composure to do a well practiced bolt cycle.

As far as the bluing goes, my oldest ruger is a 257 Roberts from 1976 (it says it is a Bicentennial edition on the barrel) and I haven’t seen any purple on any of them. Don’t sell your Rugers, if they have served you well to date, they will continue to do so.

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2007, 06:12:30 AM »

Not sure how to delete this reply

Ahab · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2007, 06:25:27 AM »

I kinda like the royal plum look.

but like the target gray more and don't need no stinken Timmy trigger. Please don't tell my 7mm08 it can't shoot less than MOA.

arky65 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2007, 08:39:38 AM »

;DHey Mr. Joe, I will give those Rugers of yours a loving& caring home....... for a price.
Just ship em on down here.

Never had a problem with any of my Rugers that was not of my own doin's.

Mr. Joe · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2007, 10:01:47 AM »

Easy fellas...i called it a rant in the title for a reason...its a rant. Born from quck frustration. My rugers work ok. I got them both because they were deals i couldnt refuse. I dont hunt with either one. I will probaly end up selling them, not becuase they dont work though...there is just other stuff i would rather have.

tanoose · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2007, 03:36:57 PM »

Mr Joe i have a ruger m77 MKII ultralight in 30/06 and i tried what you suggested as soon as i read your post and i DID NOT have to close the bolt to eject the shells as you stated , i will say they just barley dropped out but they were all CRF in my model. This rifle is about 4 years old. Like i said they didn't through them out like they do when you close the bolt but they did eject , i tried this about 10 times .

rugerfan01 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2007, 04:39:51 PM »

Ive got four and am well pleased with all of them. I have heard all the hype that they wont shoot this that and the other, but untill I get a bad one, Make mine RUGER.

tanoose · « **Reply #18 on:** March 18, 2007, 06:57:16 AM »

Rugerfan while my ultralight wont shoot as tight as my reminmgton 700 with 150 grain bullets , and i am only talking about 1/4" difference at 100 yards For some reason she groups the Hornady 220 grain RN tighter then both my rem. 700 and 760 . Which is good for me because i switched to the 220 grain bullets a couple of years ago. In all i have had three different ruger m77's and they were all great shooters

Zachary · « **Reply #19 on:** March 18, 2007, 12:38:38 PM »

I don't own any Ruger centerfires, but, even if I did, and they shot great, then I wouldn't sell them off just because I later found out that they were not true CRFs. Heck, my Tikkas, Remingtons, etc. are not CRFs and I'm very happy with them.

I know that there is this ongoing debate, which will likely never get resolved, within African big game hunting, that you MUST have a CRF when hunting dangerous game. I don't know. Maybe yes, maybe no. But, in any event, if hunting regular deer and hogs here in the good ole US of A, even if CRFs are truly a must in dangerous game hunting, it doesn't matter for what I hunt here.

Zachary

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 18, 2007, 02:36:39 PM »

Every Ruger I've owned or shot was superbly accuracte, the exception being couple of 10/22's and a Mini 14 Ranch. This covers several 77 bolt actions, from the older tang safety models to MKII's to 77/22's and 77/17's, to a couple of Ruger #1's. Each and everyone was MOA with factory loads and untuned triggers. I've never had any horrendous trigger pulls, even on the Mini 14. Heavy, yes, a bit of creep, yes, and that's just like every factory gun I've owned except Tikka, Knight, and T/C.

As for push feeds and Africa, I've never been, but I will (I have family in Zambia, and South Africa). Several of them use Weatherby's (push feed) and push feed model 70's and have had no issues. Professional hunter/writer Finn Aagaard used a push feed model 70 for years and never had a single problem. I don't know of any CRF semi-auto's or automatics, and that's what the military and police use for the most dangerous shooting. If it was that important, you'd think that designers would figure out a way to incorporate it in those type of guns.

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #21 on:** March 18, 2007, 03:17:14 PM »

Today I purchased my 3rd M77V, this one is in 22-250.
I have seen way more Rugers that shoot great than ones that don't

Mr. Joe · « **Reply #22 on:** March 25, 2007, 01:22:52 PM »

And just like that, im totaly in love with my Ruger 77 in 7 mag. In fact, its at Williams gunsight right now have a muzzle brake put on! I cannot wait to get this bad boy back at hit the range! It drives tacks and now without the recoil!

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #23 on:** March 25, 2007, 06:17:50 PM »

Rugers are just CRAP! Don’t know why anyone would even CONSIDER buying one, let alone actually laying down cash for one, unless they are out of their flippin’ mind.

Damm, I’d better go check the rifles in my safe again to make sure the CRF’s really do. That would be the MKII’s of course, since currently my only non-Ruger bolt gun is a single Remington M700.

Took my latest “accuracy crapshoot” to the range last weekend. It’s a 1984 M77 .30-06 I picked up last November. Looks like new, even the bluing under the tang safety was unscratched. The receiver is as deep blue/black as the barrel, guess I got lucky. Shooting in the wind down in Texas where I got it I couldn’t get it to group better than 1-1/4” with factory ammo. Got home and floated the barrel and honed the trigger, which is now very good. The loads I took to the range included 10 H4350/168g AMAX loads and 8 BL(C)-2/168g AMAX loads. Every load was unique as I varied the powder charges by 0.5g. So how did it do? The 5.0g spread of H4350 shot into 1.15” and the 4.0g spread of BL(C)-2 shot into 1.0”. Needless to say, I have another keeper.

poncaguy · « **Reply #24 on:** March 28, 2007, 04:37:12 PM »

I have 2 Ruger 77's, 2 Winchester Super Shadow WSM's, a Mossberg ATR, 2 Steven 200's. They all feed and eject just fine and all shoot better than 1 1/2". Love them all!

deltecs · « **Reply #25 on:** April 09, 2007, 06:05:17 PM »

Well, here we go again. Our contentment with Ruger rifles gets entangled with politics. Ruger's M77 in both Mark 1 and 2 were and are fine weapons. At the time the Mark 1 became commercially available it was the best firearm for the money on the market. The Mark 2 revisions both early and late are typical firearms manufacturers marketing strategies. Regardless, both firearms have been inherently accurate out of the box, reliable to the point of infallible, and fairly good balance. What more can we ask of our rifles. My old Mark 1s' are push feed and even upside feeding with the bolt, the cartridges do not fall out. They enter the chamber enough that they cannot fall out. So that is one busted reason for owning CRF. The other was that an excited shooter could short throw the bolt and jam his weapon on fast fire. What poppycock for the sport hunter. I've never even thought about short throwing a bolt and I still get deer fever so bad I shake some times. Wait a minute, that might be age. Anyway, with over 45 years of hunting in Alaska and most of continental US, I've never had a hunting weapon jam due to short throw. Never had one jam, come to think on it. Never had a nervous thought looking down the sights at big brownie, whether or not the next shell might go in the chamber, either for that matter. Pick a rifle that fits you and the hunt, then the caliber will follow after.
Greg

Outcast · « **Reply #26 on:** April 15, 2007, 03:02:37 PM »

Quote from: krochus on March 16, 2007, 11:15:51 AM

Quote
Needless to say, I may have to sell of my rugers. I am very bitter right now!

That's OK it's just the natural progression of things, ALL Ruger owners will eventually come to this point. I've gone through it and I feel better now that my safe is a Ruger free zone

Agreed, although I still have a No.1 ....unbelievably it shoots great. Otherwise, I've taken the Ruger accuracy challenge and I'm done with that phase of my life.

Outcast · « **Reply #27 on:** April 15, 2007, 03:21:29 PM »

deltecs,

"At the time the Mark 1 became commercially available it was the best firearm for the money on the market."

If you were lucky enuff to get a Ruger with a Douglas barrel .... then you are correct. However, if your gun had any other, then you may or may not be able to hit a bull in the @ss at 50 feet.