Author Topic: 2nd Mod. 44Spec.H.E.  (Read 929 times)

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Offline hunman55

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2nd Mod. 44Spec.H.E.
« on: February 27, 2007, 08:42:39 AM »
I picked up a 2nd Mod. 44Spec from a local gun and pawn some time back. Have only shot it  at 5/7 yds-shot ok at that distance. Have a question. Do any of you have a similiar S&W? If so, measure the chamber mouths of the cylinder and tell me what you get. Mine measure 452/453 and I know this is not conductive to accuracy. My Uberti Regulator in 44Spec measures 431/432. The extractor end of the cylinders on both guns measures 459/460. Any insight on this? Many thanks-Hunman55

Offline Karl Haemmerlein

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Re: 2nd Mod. 44Spec.H.E.
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2007, 08:51:36 AM »
Ask this question at www.smith-wessonforum.com  .  You will get much better response, and most of them know what they are talking about on s&w's.

Offline hunman55

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Re: 2nd Mod. 44Spec.H.E.
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2007, 01:39:27 PM »
Karl, thanks for your reply. I tried the S&W forum and I can't get in because they don't take Hotmail and that's what I have for my e-mail. Come on, guys, I know their are some knowledgable S&W people out there. Hunman55

Offline Hook686

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Re: 2nd Mod. 44Spec.H.E.
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2007, 06:28:58 PM »
Quote
... I tried the S&W forum and I can't get in because they don't take Hotmail and that's what I have for my e-mail....


Odd, I have hotmail and the s&W forum had no problem accepting my registration. In any event, it is as simple to open a yahoo, or netscape web based email account, as it is to open a hotmail account. Have you tried ? I also think you would get a better response/consideration there.
Hook686
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Offline hunman55

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Re: 2nd Mod. 44Spec.H.E.
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2007, 11:05:26 PM »
Hotmail and Yahoo has been banned from their forum-maybe they are just referring to new members. I have no explanation. Hunman55

Offline Hammerdown

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Re: 2nd Mod. 44Spec.H.E.
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2007, 03:30:13 PM »
I picked up a 2nd Mod. 44Spec from a local gun and pawn some time back. Have only shot it  at 5/7 yds-shot ok at that distance. Have a question. Do any of you have a similiar S&W? If so, measure the chamber mouths of the cylinder and tell me what you get. Mine measure 452/453 and I know this is not conductive to accuracy. My Uberti Regulator in 44Spec measures 431/432. The extractor end of the cylinders on both guns measures 459/460. Any insight on this? Many thanks-Hunman55


Hello
I have a second Model .455 Mark II revolver. It has a very Interesting History past as I was Told it was Issued to a Canadian Pilot During World War I and it was His second revolver issued. His Family was well off and concerned about his welfare with the Anemic .455 Webly round so made sure he got a factory converted one in .45 Colt Caliber. I was told he flew Missions over Briitan with this revolver, while in The Royal Canadian Air Corps.They are very similar in construction. My cylinder Mouths measure the same yours as mine was chambered Originally for the .455 Webley British round, But later had a Factory conversion to the more Popular .45 Colt with the addition of adjustable sights as well. The cylinder in mine measures .452. It may be Possible that yours was reamed or may have a different cylinder on it than came from the factory back then. These were widely used in the Military and tolerances did run a Little ramped but it sounds as though you may have a  .455 cylinder or a .45 Colt or Possibly a .45 ACP as they Offered and used all three mentioned here. Check the depth of the Throats and see how deep this measurement of .453 Goes. That may confirm you have a wrong cylinder on your revolver. Another Option is check the face of it, and see if it has the Original serial number of your revolver still in place. It was Not uncommon to have that ground off if it was ever changed by a Gun Smith. I have heard if the Guns serial number is Missing from this Location it is a sure way to know it has Been Tampered with. here is a Picture of mine wearing it's original issued S&W grips. I hope this helps, Hammerdown




"yeah, Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death, I shall Fear no evil as I carry with me my Loaded S&W"

Offline jd45

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Re: 2nd Mod. 44Spec.H.E.
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2007, 03:16:21 AM »
I could be wrong, but those chamber dimensions say it's a .45 caliber, not a .44 caliber revolver. jd45

Offline hunman55

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Re: 2nd Mod. 44Spec.H.E.
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2007, 10:29:07 AM »
Hammerdown, thanks for your reply. That's a fine old Smith you have there. Mine is a 44Special. Cylinder is original to the gun, but those chamber mouths are oversize-not good for very accurate shooting and there could be 10 reasons why they are oversize. This gun will probably become trading fodder. And, jd45, you, of course, are right. Thanks to both of you for your interest. Hunman55

Offline jd45

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Re: 2nd Mod. 44Spec.H.E.
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2007, 10:34:39 AM »
hunman55, if you ever get to the bottom of why your chambers are .44 caliber at the back end & .45 caliber at the front end, please let us know, cause I, for one, am sure curious. Good Luck, jd45

Offline hunman55

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Re: 2nd Mod. 44Spec.H.E.
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2007, 11:16:15 PM »
jd45, I'm curious also. It is odd. As stated, the cylinder has the same serial # as the frame and the crane also has the same serial #. Go figure. A new cylinder would cost me too much and I already have several hundred in it. Like I said-trading stock. Thanks for your interest. Hunman55

Offline Hammerdown

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Re: 2nd Mod. 44Spec.H.E.
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2007, 02:44:21 AM »
Hello Hunman55
The revolver shown was a Canadian Pilots revolver. It was said to have been shipped in .455 British caliber, then returned to S&W and reamed out to accept the .45 Colt Cartridge. This makes Perfect sense, as the face of the cylinder has not been altered and the serial numbers are still in Tact. Oddly, it does not have a factory Over stamp that it was a conversion, and I was told the Wealthy Family of the Pilot that carried this revolver had it done to Provide him with a Little more Potent round, as the Original .455 was anemic in Power. The adjustable sights were of course and after thought, but are of the Micro Brand and the front base is a King. These may or may not have been installed at the factory at a later date as they Too used King and Later bought Micro to use the same sights on all their adjustable sighted revolvers. Many second issue Hand ejects were conversions. Of the ones done in job shops I have heard it is not uncommon to see the face of the cylinder Milled down to accept the Moon clips when they converted to .45 ACP. Mine still has it's original serial numbers stamped in the cylinder face as shown, Barrel and frame. The grips shown on mine are original and correct for that year vintage revolver as well. on a recent shipping date request I learned mine was sold in may of 1916, rather than shipped. I find that really Interesting, so may apply for a factory Letter. Remington Arms handled the Exporting chore for all the war Time hand ejects back then out of New York City. Some were shipped to Britain and others went to Canada. Mine evidently went to Britain and has the British inspectors stamps on it. The Odd part is mine has less stampings from the British inspectors than most I have seen. I have a research Book that clearly shows what these British stampings mean, and any Information about these Proof marks is very Hard to locate. If you would Like to P.M. Me with the stampings on your revolver I would be able to look them up, and give you some idea of who inspected it and it's Possible this will uncover it's history path. Oddly, there is very Little interest in the .455 round, and most were converted later or sold off after the War and converted then. Mine is the Opposite of yours being Tight on bore. I tried some .003" over bore lead bullets and it produced Horrible groups with them. I switched to standard .45 Caliber Bullets and it is a tack driver. I find it neat that when they Produced these, Speed was Key, and although the Frames appear to be crude, the finish and fit is Great. I removed my side-plate for Oiling Purposes and it was as clean inside as the Outside of the revolver. These revolvers are a Lot of fun to shoot, But I don't push the Upper Limits in Hand Loads as it is what it is.. And Old war Horse. let me know if I can be of help with your revolver's stampings and I would be happy to look them up and share any Information that I have.  take care, Hammerdown



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Offline hunman55

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Re: 2nd Mod. 44Spec.H.E.
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2007, 08:12:40 AM »
Hammerdown, sorry I'm late in answering you. Thanks for your offer of research, but I don't think the gun is worth it. It has been rebarrelled(decent job) and I have no explanation as to why the cylinder dimensions are out of spec. You have a fine old Smith there and it's a keeper and worth a lot more than mine. Thanks again.  Hunman55