Author Topic: Is my load too hot! (Read 2461 times)

Ironworker · « **on:** February 19, 2007, 02:27:40 PM »

I have a Mod 25-5 6" bbl 45 LC. I'm loading LPMP behind 23.5 grs of H110 behind 250 gr Hornady XTP. Gives a moderate recoil,big muzzel flash. Produces 1,050 FPS. Very accurate,brass extracts with zero problems.Could it still be too hot of a load?

I got this load from sixgunner.com in an article written by a shooter shooting this specific revolver. In fact he even loads 22grs of H110 behind a 310 gr cast bullet.

De41mag · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:59:17 PM »

Ironworker;

Sounds like you got an ideal load there. It don't sound hot to me , especally if no trouble in extraction and it's accurate. Also 1050fps is not blistering for a 45LC load. If no problems occur in the future I'd stay with it.
Just my thoughts.

Dennis

ND Sharpshooter · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2007, 04:08:20 AM »

Ironworker,

I wonder if the big muzzel flash isn't due to H-110 being a slow burner which results in some of it burning outside rather than inside the barrel? Your load sounds fine. Had a friend who loaded his 25-5 light using WW-296. He had all sorts of problems. Squibbs, delayed ignition, and lots of unburned powder in the snow out front. They mean it when they tell us not to download from the books with H-110 and 296. Good shooting!

JD11 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 27, 2007, 07:15:56 AM »

Without looking, I think that's John Linbaugh's close to max hot load he recommends in his 45LC section of sixgunner.com. Approved for Rugers and Contenders only.

unspellable · « **Reply #4 on:** February 27, 2007, 07:59:47 AM »

It's not a question of pressure, the revolver will take that. It's how fast it will shoot loose. It's your revolver, you will have to decide how fast you want it to wear. The load sounds a bit on the hot side for a S&W but if you aren't shooting it much you might get away with it.

Muzzle flash is NOT due to unburnt powder, at least not for any load within reason. The combustion products from the powder are not completely oxidized. When the hot gas hits the air there is a fresh supply of oxygen available and the hot gas ignites.

jro45 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2007, 03:23:13 AM »

I sounds a little Hot to me. With the 310 gr bullet I thought I saw it in a load book for 20.5 gr of H110. So If I were you I would get a load book. Maybe that guy has a NEW MODEL LONG COLT 45. If he does then he can shoot those hot loads.

myronman3 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 28, 2007, 04:01:16 AM »

the mere fact that you have to ask is a giant red flag. NEVER load anything you arent sure of. get yourself some loading manuals (i prefer speer, nosler, lyman, and i believe i have one from hodgdon powder that is great). read them, follow them, stick with them. using loads out of gun magzines, internet posts, or some clown that told you HIS load; is a recipe for disaster. it is bad, bad, bad, and nothing good will come of it. stick with the manuals.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 28, 2007, 04:34:01 AM »

Quote from: myronman3 on February 28, 2007, 04:01:16 AM

the mere fact that you have to ask is a giant red flag. NEVER load anything you arent sure of. get yourself some loading manuals (i prefer speer, nosler, lyman, and i believe i have one from hodgdon powder that is great). read them, follow them, stick with them. using loads out of gun magzines, internet posts, or some clown that told you HIS load; is a recipe for disaster. it is bad, bad, bad, and nothing good will come of it. stick with the manuals.

Great advice.

unspellable · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2007, 02:18:38 AM »

I hadn't thought of it that way, but I'll go along with the last two posts. It might be a perfectly safe load, but you should KNOW before you drop the hammer.

myronman3 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2007, 03:37:13 AM »

i might add that i am not trying to be a know-it-all. when i first started coming to g.b.o. i was using a load out of a well known magazine written by dick metcalf for my 454 casull. turns out, i asked about it here, and greybeard himself set me straight on what i was doing. i called factory reps and bullet makers to verify what g.b. told me, and he was dead on the money. thanks again, graybeard.

there is a lot of good out there on the internet (see the above story) but also alot of junk that could cost or even hurt you; and in gun mags too. i only trust the published manuels when it comes to rolling my own ammo. everything else is taking a giant chance. best wishes.......

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2007, 04:12:23 AM »

Ironworker

You may want to take a look at this , Hodgdon has this load listed as a Ruger , FA & TC only load !

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

stimpy

Davemuzz · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2007, 03:20:42 PM »

If your going to use load data that you got from the internet, you should check it against published load data to see if it makes sense. It's just a good idea if your going to reload, to invest in a couple of different loading manuels. You gotta figure that spending $40 to $60 in manuels is cheap insurance vs. exploding your $500 gun....or worse....a chunk of yourself with it.

Dave.

Ironworker · « **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2007, 04:59:19 AM »

For Ruger and T/C guns only

. Ok a poster on another web sight called Sierra Tech boys( Phone in service) they said if the gun your shooting is also chambered in 44 mag you can shoot those loads with out a problem. My S&W 25-5 is the same frame as a S&W 29.So I'm going to continue with this load.God Bless you all for taking the time to respond.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2007, 08:12:16 AM »

what he didnt tell you that smith 44 mags wear out prematurely too with stiff loads. You wont blow your gun up with that load but its not a load i would want to shoot 2 or 300 every week with out of that gun. IT would make a fine hunting load. One you can sight your gun in with and take a box of shells and go hunting a couple times a year. But for a steady diet of practice id want to knock about a 100 fps off that load.

Graybeard · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2007, 11:21:46 AM »

Quote from: Ironworker on March 10, 2007, 04:59:19 AM

For Ruger and T/C guns only . Ok a poster on another web sight called Sierra Tech boys( Phone in service) they said if the gun your shooting is also chambered in 44 mag you can shoot those loads with out a problem. My S&W 25-5 is the same frame as a S&W 29.So I'm going to continue with this load.God Bless you all for taking the time to respond.

I'm not gonna say the Sierra folks "didn't" say that but I must admit I doubt it as they for sure know better. The S&W .45 Colt guns shouldn't be used at the Ruger/TC pressure level which is about 32,000 psi or almost exactly the same as the SAAMI current level for the .44 magnum. The cuts on the cylinder of the S&W are all wrong for strength and in the .45 just don't leave enough margin for error. You'd be wise to heed normal warnings of not exceeding 20,000 psi in the S&W.

blackwolfe · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2007, 06:42:17 PM »

If I remember correctly I believe I remember reading that the Smith .44 mag frames were heat treated differently to make them stronger than the same size frames for other calibers.

the_shadow · « **Reply #16 on:** March 27, 2007, 01:21:13 PM »

If you got that load from six gunner, you should go back and reread his article. He indeed dose list this load and others. He also states that the heat on the 45 colt is not heat treated and over time will stretch the frame,s.
James

unspellable · « **Reply #17 on:** March 28, 2007, 02:50:13 AM »

There is a lot of misinformation circulating in this area.

Both the S&W 45 cylinder and the Ruger Blackhawk 45 cylinder will suffer catastrophic failure around 60,000 psi by actual test to destruction. Both cylinders have the same diameter. This implies a maximum working pressure for either of 30,000 psi. Good engineering calls for the maximum working load to be not more than 50% of the failure load.

The bolt notch is generally not the weak point in a cylinder, the web between chambers is the weak point, post blow up analysis of cylinders almost always reveals they failed in the web. This is the reason for five holes in 454 mags and such, thicker web. It's not hard to design a revolver with offset bolt notches if that were the weak point.

"Frame stretching" is an urban myth. Frames don't stretch. See below.

The weak point in the S&W is cylinder end shake control. Heavy loads will cause end shake to develop. It's end shake that is often mislabeled as "frame stretch".

In turn, the S&W is more sensitive to end shake than most revolvers and if there is enough end shake they will develop timing problems.

It's the yoke tube that gets the special heat treating in the S&W 44. So for a given amount of abuse the 45 will go loose sooner. Conversly the Blackhawk has very robust end spacing and doesn't go loose. (Although I've seen new ones come out of the box loose due to sloppy fitting at the factory.)

44 Mag pressure levels are NOT suitable for the 45 Blackhawk. It should be held to 30,000 psi max. This is compared to the SAAMI max of 18,000 cup and the usual factory load of around 14,000 psi.

Graybeard · « **Reply #18 on:** March 28, 2007, 08:32:49 AM »

Most .45 Colt Ruger loads are listed as either 28,000 or 32,000 PSI. Some sources list one or the other some both.

The notches for the S&W cylinder are cut over the thin part not between cylinders like the Ruger is so I don't necessarily agree it is quite as strong a cylinder. Most sources I've seen site this as the reason to hold pressures in it to lower levels than in the Ruger .45 Colt guns.

Hand_Loader · « **Reply #19 on:** November 11, 2007, 07:01:55 PM »

sounds a little hot maybe back it off a little try 20.5 gr and see if the flash disappears.

Hammerdown · « **Reply #20 on:** November 12, 2007, 02:08:24 AM »

Quote from: JD11 on February 27, 2007, 07:15:56 AM

Without looking, I think that's John Linbaugh's close to max hot load he recommends in his 45LC section of sixgunner.com. Approved for Rugers and Contenders only.

Hello
I have to agree with Poster JD11 on this.I too have a model 25-5 and they are not intended to digest hot hand loads. I have used H-110 in my .41 Magnum and .44 Magnum extensively and it is a Magnum Powder not a Powder designed to use with the .45 Colt round. It has a Very Big white flash and closely resembles the flash from Blue Dot Powder. We must keep in mind that the .45 Colt was designed and intended to act much like a slow Moving Locomotive. powerful, and devastating on Kinetic Knock down energy. if you want magnum performance get a magnum handgun the 25's are NOT Intended for this, and you stand a chance of Bursting a cylinder or destroying a frame because they are NOT Heat treated to the same level as a magnum cylinder or Gun Frame. I have heard in the past, this is one reason WHY The Throats run big in this caliber to avoid Bursting a gun with Hot Rod Loads. here is a link to a write up that is intended just for loads to use in the S&W model 25's and it is an Excellent write up specifically for the model 25 revolver written by John Linebaugh. If it were my model 25 I sure would Not play with a Magnum Powder in a Non Magnum Caliber hand gun..It sounds to me that you have been Lucky using this Magnum powder so far, but if it were my model 25, I would cease using it because you may be flirting with Disaster. Hammerdown

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=12

Hammerdown · « **Reply #21 on:** November 12, 2007, 02:26:56 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on March 28, 2007, 08:32:49 AM

Most .45 Colt Ruger loads are listed as either 28,000 or 32,000 PSI. Some sources list one or the other some both.

The notches for the S&W cylinder are cut over the thin part not between cylinders like the Ruger is so I don't necessarily agree it is quite as strong a cylinder. Most sources I've seen site this as the reason to hold pressures in it to lower levels than in the Ruger .45 Colt guns.

Hello Graybeard
This is a major Misconception and Fable about the strength of The S&W's Cylinders. The Problem is Not with the cylinders Strength or ability to Take higher Pressure loads as they are the same thickness and strength as the Ruger's are, where the Problem lies is the Frame of the gun. The model 25's do NOT have a heat treated frame thus can not take the Maximum Loads touching into a magnum category without compromise and or destruction. if one is LUCKY he can get by with using a Low amount of Hot loads in this gun, but there are No Gurantee's that it Can't destroy a fine hand gun right off the bat by using magnum Loads in a Non Magnum Hand Gun..to me, as Hard as the Model 25's are to come by today, it is just not worth taking a chance on destroying a fine hand gun by Loading it hot. Regards, Hammerdown