Author Topic: 200 yard slug gun?  (Read 7800 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gjs4

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15
200 yard slug gun?
« on: February 18, 2007, 05:33:06 AM »
I have herad that the TCs 20ga rifled encored are 5" at 200 yards....does anyone have a slug gun that has similar performance ro a review of the TC?

thanks
garrett

Offline Blammer

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 238
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2007, 06:06:33 AM »
2.5 MOA huh. Interesting. I haven't shot that far yet....

Offline STL Cardinal Fan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2007, 06:18:19 AM »
I may make a person upset, but if a hunter is taking a 200 yard shot with a slug gun or muzzleloader............then they do not need to be hunting.

These gun manufactures keep advertising muzzleloaders (primarily) and shotgun shooting 200 yards. Heck, we all know they can shoot 200 yards, but they will not shoot with the accuracy of 100 yards.

The gun manufactures advertise "200 yards" as a way to market their firearms.

Yes, I have done testing with an 1187 slug gun, 12 gauge, at 200 yards at a range. I did this to see if my personal beliefs were correct and they were..........one does not need to shoot 200 yards!

Do not get me wrong, the shotgun or muzzleloader will shoot that far. The question is, how proficient is the shooter? How many hours will he spend at the range shooting 200 yards? Will he practice in average to strong winds? The answer is simple........there are very few "shooters" who can effectively shoot well at 200 yards (with muzzy or shotgun). I can promise you that these shooters will be shooting off a benchrest of some sort also........and even these great shooters do not need to be shooting 200 yards.

Safety should always be the first aspect too hunting, which gun manufactures seem to ignore when advertising their long range shotguns or muzzleloaders.

Kenny



Glocks are like M&M's, they both melt in your hand  8)

Offline Cheesehead

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3282
  • Gender: Male
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2007, 06:22:13 AM »
Kenny

What were the results of your 200 yard testing?

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline STL Cardinal Fan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2007, 06:36:09 AM »
Kenny

What were the results of your 200 yard testing?

Cheese

Cheese,

The testing I did was 2 years ago and I can not say exactly what the results were, say in inches, but I can say the results were awful. The actual gun was not sighted in for 200 yards, but instead we aimed at the "bullseye" and fired. We knew we probably would not hit the bullseye and we were not concerned with that. We were just concerned with what grouping, if any, we got from firing at the bullseye. My friend and I did the actual testing, as it was his gun. Neither of us could get the gun to shoot a good groupm, but at a 100 yards, his shotgun shot well. We noticed the gun to really fall off the chart (group wise) after we passed the 150 yards target.

Plus, we was shooting with a leupold scope. We were prepared. Shot off a bench also. Between my friend and I, we have over 65 years of reloading and shooting........

 

My main point though is this, safety, safety, safety. Too many folks read them 200 yards advertisemtns and think if they buy this gun, they will become the next Carlos Hatchcok........and this is not going to happen.

Kenny
Glocks are like M&M's, they both melt in your hand  8)

Offline gjs4

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2007, 09:27:30 AM »
I agree, but disgaree

200 yards is not easy and is not as much gun as it is shooter. I am not sure a slug gun could be a 200yarder- hence the post

I do think there are many calibers, and even some MLs out ther that can 200 more easily than not, with ample practice and understanding.....(this is not everyone who can just afford such a gun)

my skepticism on the slug was my reason for the post...an di am not thinking a $2k tarhunt is the answer


Offline STL Cardinal Fan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2007, 09:51:18 AM »
I enjoy reading and debating or shall I say discussing the issue of 200 yard slug guns, etc..  I would just like to add a few things;

1. You are correct, there are many guns that can shoot yards yards (in terms of muzzy's or slug guns).

2. You do not need a 2K gun such as tarhunt to shoot 200 yards. Here again, gun manufactures do great jobs at "marketing."

For example, I will shoot my tradtions muzzleloader with any of TC's muzzleloaders any day of the week. The cost of my Traditons $169.00 wholesale. The cost of the same style of gun made by TC, over $500.00.

Plus, Savage rifles are another exmaple that cheaper priced guns can perfom as good or better than some higher priced guns. I will take a Savage over a Remington without hesitation, if one is just going on price alone.

I guess my main point on this rebuttal is that you do not have to spend big money on named brand procuts to get great shooting guns and customer service. Traditons and Savage are both great customer service companies.......and so is TC, but Remington is the pits.

Happy hunting....
Glocks are like M&M's, they both melt in your hand  8)

Offline SDS-GEN

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2007, 11:29:12 AM »
5" at 200 yards isn't good enough.  I wouldn't take that shot from a field position with any gun that groups like this.  Slug guns and slugs were originally made for close range hunting, states mandated their use because the slug didn't travel as far as a high velocity bullet.  The industry perverted hunters opinions of slugs through marketing.  Everyone wants their product to sound better than the competition's so we got the "our slug is faster", "our slug gun is more accurate","our slugs hit harder" crap from manufacturers.  Todays slugs/guns are far superior to those just a decade ago, but they shouldn't be perverted into something the aren't, they aren't rifle bullets.

Offline Redhawk1

  • Life time NRA Supporter.
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (78)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Gender: Male
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2007, 02:06:08 PM »
I may make a person upset, but if a hunter is taking a 200 yard shot with a slug gun or muzzleloader............then they do not need to be hunting.

These gun manufactures keep advertising muzzleloaders (primarily) and shotgun shooting 200 yards. Heck, we all know they can shoot 200 yards, but they will not shoot with the accuracy of 100 yards.

The gun manufactures advertise "200 yards" as a way to market their firearms.

Yes, I have done testing with an 1187 slug gun, 12 gauge, at 200 yards at a range. I did this to see if my personal beliefs were correct and they were..........one does not need to shoot 200 yards!

Do not get me wrong, the shotgun or muzzleloader will shoot that far. The question is, how proficient is the shooter? How many hours will he spend at the range shooting 200 yards? Will he practice in average to strong winds? The answer is simple........there are very few "shooters" who can effectively shoot well at 200 yards (with muzzy or shotgun). I can promise you that these shooters will be shooting off a benchrest of some sort also........and even these great shooters do not need to be shooting 200 yards.

Safety should always be the first aspect too hunting, which gun manufactures seem to ignore when advertising their long range shotguns or muzzleloaders.

Kenny


Kenny, you need to come to the range with me sometime, I will show you what my 50 cal M/L Encore's will do at 200 yards. A 4 inch clay target is hit consistently at 200 yards.

Now as for the slug gun, I don't thin I would take many shots at 200 yards, I stay within 100 to 125 yards with mine, and it is a tack driver. But I did however take a 208 yard laser range finder used shot at a doe and put her down with one shot from my Remington 1100 with a 2 3/4 inch Remington copper solid. The good thing about the shot was, I had two buddies there with me and witnessed it. But like I said, it is not a shot I like to take, but I let this one go. I don't recommend a 200 yard shot and doubt I would do it again with my slug gun. But my Encore M/L I would not give it a second thought.
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Endowment Life Member of the NRA
Life Member NA

Offline NYH1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1695
  • Gender: Male
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2007, 03:10:12 PM »
I'm getting a Remington 11-87 Sportsman Deer 12 ga. It has a 21 inch fully rifled barrel with the cantilever scope mount. I'm going to put my Leupold VX-II 2-7x33mm Shotgun Scope on it. To me I'll have a good 100 to 125 yard slug gun.

Even with the newer sabot slugs like the Remington Ultra Bonded Core-Lokt, Winchester Partition Gold, Federal Barnes Expander and Hornady SST wind drift can be a big problem. Look at federal's web site, they show wind drift.
"ROLL TIDE". . .Back To Back. . .Three In The Last Four Years "GO GIANTS"  "YANKEES"

Offline 1187VX2

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 70
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2007, 07:39:10 AM »
I've also played with the slug guns at 200 yards.  My conclusions led me to figure 150 - 175 yards was really the max reliable range (for me with 1187 SP and 3-9 Leupold scope & 3/4 oz. Federal/Barnes slugs).   Beyond that range, the slug is dropping too much and, no accuracy wasn't great.  Killed 2 at 145 yards one year with that setup - no big deal.  Yes, a rest is a must for the longer ranges.  Yes, practice is expensive (too expensive).

Now once you start talking muzzleloaders, you are certainly into 200 yard guns - with the right loads, in the right hands and again, with a rest.  You're using a lighter bullet & pushing it faster.

I was out shooting yesterday trying to finalize my muzzleloader load for next fall.  The results were a 2 1/2" group @ 200 yards with about 5" drop.  That should work, but of course I plan to practice that several more times before hunting with it.

Heck, it is fun shooting at further distances.  Do it enough & you realize it is very doable, with the right equipment.

Back to shotguns, if you found a shotgun that likes the Hornady 300 grain slugs, those should work well to 200 yards with a little less drop.

Offline myronman3

  • Moderator
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4837
  • Gender: Male
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2007, 09:55:37 AM »
smoked a feral goat once at about 160 yards uphill.  killed deader than hell.  also hammered a whitetail yearling once at around 140.   would i do it again?  nope,  i would use my 270 to do it; but back then,  all i had was a 20 gauge.  shotguns will suprise you if you get the right combination. 

am i advocating a 200 yard shot with a shotgun?  nope.  but if someone wanted to argue i bet i could put together a package i could use to kill at 200.   

Offline Myron_Holley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2007, 04:23:24 AM »
 Myronman is cheating, 8) He knows his dad makes slugs that will shoot that well and has done so in past. All so Mike I did know you smoked that goat, Still remember it very well.  :o Remember Tyron that was shot from top of hill to bottom. Thats 200 plus. One shot and we have the horns to prove it. When in a shot gun only area or black powder. If you have the right gun, Right slugs, Scope, or just a damn good shot it is very possable. Our family has done it many times over the years in the La Crosse count hills of Wisconsin. Black powder if done right will go 300 easy accurately. Nuff said. Been there done that. Dad Holley  :D

Offline myronman3

  • Moderator
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4837
  • Gender: Male
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2007, 09:06:58 AM »
Quote
All so Mike I did know you smoked that goat, Still remember it very well.
:-[     it was asking for it....i swear.... ;D

Offline jdt48653

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 372
  • walk softly and carry a 264
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2007, 08:32:47 AM »
at 200 yds is there enough energy to humanly kill say a whitetail?

Offline kyelkhunter3006

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (20)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1576
  • Gender: Male
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2007, 10:43:50 AM »
The Hornady SST 300 grain load moves out at 2000fps....Ok, most 150 grain black powder loads move 250-300 grain SST's at around 2000-2150fps???  Many of us shoot our .50's at 200 yds with a load like that.  If you have a shotgun that delivers the needed accuracy at a tested 200 yds, what's the difference between them?  Not a thing if you ask me. 

Granted, some shotguns aren't going to deliver the needed accuracy, because the barrel attachment for those shotguns isn't the best for consistent shooting.  BUT, if you had an Encore, an H&R Ultra, or one of the bolt actions that provide a stiff, solid, support base, as long as you put in the time, shooting 200 yds shouldn't be a problem with the SST slug.

The load itself is a big issue, because lets face it, most of the slug loads you buy aren't the most aerodynamic bullets available.  They are sledgehammers, not lasers.  The shotgun slug concept was developed so that people had a more effective deer/game load for the guns that they already owned and were familiar with, with a better range than buckshot.  The key is a better range, not long range.  Buckshot isn't worth a thing past 30-40 yds, while the slug got you 100 yds.  When slugs were brought out, people didn't buy them to shoot past 150 yds, they were hunting the woods and thickets, and wanted a big hole in the animal.  Most of the slug guns I've shot were regular pumps and semi's, some with a rifled barrel, some with a rifles choke, and some were the plain old smooth bore.  With these guns, most of them were at best 3"-4" at 100yds.  Some were twice that.

As for 5" at 200 yds, well, that's up to you to decide if you are comfortable with that.  If you can get that from field rests, I'd be fine with it.  If that's from the bench, I'd have to think about it, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't use it.  I find it humorous that some say that's not good enough accuracy, but I've seen many a lever action 30-30 that shot 3" at 100 yds and is considered a 150-200 yd gun.  JMHO.   ???

Offline teddy12b

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3078
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2007, 06:40:23 AM »
I have a Savage 210F 12 gauage fully rifled bolt action slug gun.  The load that shoots the best out of this gun is the Federal 3" barnes.  Now I have to try it out on the 200 yard line. 

It's more accuracte at 100 yards than any other slug gun I've ever fired so maybe I'll have a chance at 200.  I've shot at the 200 yard line before but mainly just for giggles.  Hopefully I'll get out some time and I'll let you all know how it does at 200 yards.

Offline tanoose

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 839
  • Gender: Male
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2007, 04:54:52 AM »
I have a few friends in Dutchess county NY which is shotgun only for deer. And these guys are very proficient with there shotguns . while i know of one who has taken a couple of deer at around 170 yards i think his friend has taken a couple at a little over 200. With my Ithaca 37 smoothbore is accurate to 100 yards these newer shotguns and slugs should be good to 200.I beleive they are all using the NEF ultra slug guns both in 12 and 20 ga.

Offline tanoose

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 839
  • Gender: Male
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2007, 05:04:00 AM »
Jct48653 you asked about energy go to the federal website and compare energy levels with slugs , you'll see they several hundred more energy in foot pounds then the 44 mag 30/30 35 rem etc. And one load is there with the 45/70  1100-1300 footpounds at 200 yards is plenty for deer

Offline MSP Ret

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (173)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8940
  • Gender: Male
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2007, 03:03:32 PM »
Tanoose, if you are looking for a gun that will consistently shoot slugs straight the one you mentioned, everything considered, the NEF ultra slug guns both in 12 and 20 gauge are the way to go....<><.... ;)
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley

Offline tanoose

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 839
  • Gender: Male
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2007, 12:05:04 PM »
MSP Ret , yes you are correct i did have my 10 ga. fitted with the 12 ultra slug barrel, but i have sold it. When i do hunt in dutchess i hunt areas where all my shots would be 30-50 yards, so i decided to still use my ithaca 37. It is super accurate with winchester 1 oz. slugs at 1600 fps Besides i've been usin that shotgun since i was 15 and i just cant give it up.

Offline 22lyons

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2007, 12:26:05 PM »

My 20ga NEF ULtra Slug Hunter shot two inch groups at 150yards with Lightfield slugs.  Have not taken a deer that far but was curious.  I am going to try the sst this summer. 

22lyons

Offline Prebanpaul

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2007, 05:30:43 PM »
Remington 870 20ga cantaliever barrel pinned total cost $335 (scope not in price) toped with a leupold 3X9 scope. off a bench consitantly 4 inch 3 shot groups.  That being said I chronoed one out of the barrel at 1900 fps.  Hornandy sst. Same bullet, same speed as my 45-70.  Never shot a deer at the far.  From a sitting postion in a tree stand I would not hesitate. By the way I live in Ohio and we can only hunt with shotguns.

Wont even talk to you about my encore, you would not even believe it, and I only use a 100 grains of clean shot pellets.  Yes I bought the whole case when they tried to pull them out of my store.

LUCK when preperation meets opportunity.

Offline 30-06man

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2007, 04:39:13 PM »
The max shot I took with my ML was 250 yards and I was grouping 5 inches. I was using a TC encore 45cal 150 grains of Pyrodex and 265 grain Powebelts. I haven't the slightest clue when it comes to slug guns.
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

Rick

Offline kudzu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 590
  • (Dancoman)
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2007, 04:20:42 AM »
A 5'' group at 200 yrs. may mean that you are no more than 2 1/2'' from bullseye in either direction. To look at it like that I would say that hitting within 2 1/2'' of where you are aiming at 200 is not bad. Probally better than most shoot exspecially in field conditions.

As to the "muzzys'', I have a Sav. MLII shooting a 300gr. SST at about 2450fps. Gun is plenty accurate enough to take game at 300yrds.

Also have a encore prohunter that I have been debating on a 20ga rifled barrel for it. After reading this thread, Ifeel that will be my next toy to play with.

Offline kudzu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 590
  • (Dancoman)
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2007, 04:44:37 PM »
Sure do- 69gr. 4198. Started out with the 250SST and had trouble with the jackets coming off. The jackets on the 300's are a little thicker.  However I bought some 250TC bonded bullets that I will try. Can SAFEY shoot them up to around 2600fps. Hoping they will be accurate and stay together a little better.

The MLII is a great rifle and a lot of fun to play with. My fartherest kill to date has been 176yrds. A large WT doe. Bullet passed thru and left great wound channel and blood trail. All 15yds. of it.

On another thread I saw you (t/cencore1) are from upstate SC. Anywhere near the Union Co. NC area.

Offline 30-06man

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2007, 05:23:22 PM »
no but i have family up there. i have been wanting one of those muzzleloaders for a while now and been confused whether to buy one or not. i asked on the muzzleloader poll about it and i got mixed reviews. did you buy the scope combo one?
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

Rick

Offline kudzu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 590
  • (Dancoman)
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2007, 05:39:32 PM »
I've had mine about three years. I have the SS/Camo rifle. Mine wasn't a combo. I have a 4x12x42 WT expedition on it.

Offline 30-06man

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2007, 05:21:29 AM »
if i buy it ill probably get the combo or mount a simmons scope on it. or bushnell
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

Rick

Offline buckshooter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 170
Re: 200 yard slug gun?
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2007, 11:19:44 AM »
My friend has a H@R Ultra Slugger. Her friend shot this Slugger and at 200 yards, he got 6 inch patterns with Winchester supreme. I would like to get one, but my promblem is that I got a Brannew 535 Mossberg smooth bore shotgun. I have a question, I would like to get a slug barrel for my gun but my question is what kind of patterns did you guys get with a slug barrel on your gun at 125 to 150 yards, and what kind of bullets do you use.   
"When guns are outlawed only the outlaws have guns."  by Louis L'Amoure

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." by President Ronald Reagan