Author Topic: Hammer Issue with 25-06 (Read 921 times)

rezz · « **on:** February 10, 2007, 09:09:29 AM »

I have a 2nd barrel in 25-06 and it has been shooting good after I initially had to hone the latch shelf to get it to close up tight. But now, there is a problem

When I try to pull the hammer back there is noticable resistance and a metal on metal feel as it slides past whatever is causing the problem. Quite often the gun will not fire when the hammer drops. This problem is more noticable with 100 gr CoreLokts than it is with 115 Rem NPs. This has just started happening today after everything seemed fine.

The problem completely disappears when my 22-250 barrel is on the receiver so the issue seems to be only with the 06 barrel.

Oh yeah, it looks like the transfer bar is the culprit for some reason. When the breech is open the hammer pulls back fine and the resistance is gone. Close the breech and it appears that the hammer is catching on the transfer bar.

Any ideas on what is causing this?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2007, 09:37:36 AM »

That's a new one that I don't remember anyone else experiencing.

How much latch engagement do you have on the '06 barrel?

Tim

McLernon · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2007, 09:44:46 AM »

Quick I think you are on to it. It must have to do with latch engagement as that is the only way the barrel assembly and the receiver interact.
Mc

rezz · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2007, 12:06:10 PM »

Well, leave it to me to come up with a unique problem.
I'll check the latch engagement in a little while but don't have a micrometer to measure with.

McLernon · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2007, 12:10:43 PM »

Latch engagement problems are not unique at all with Handi's and it's easy to check. All you need to do is blacken the ledge on the barrel lug with a candle and reassemble and look at how far the black has been scraped by the latch. The latch should engage the lug about 1/16 of an inch.

Good luck

Mc

rezz · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2007, 01:21:34 PM »

It looks like you guys are right on this one.
The barrel didn't appear to be latching well initially so I ran a stone over the latch shelf.
That seemed to reduce the problem some but the hammer was still contacting the transfer bar when cocking.
Stoned it a little more and the issue is much better.
Will continue to investigate and let you know.
What really gets me is that everything was going well, shooting good and latching up fine at first this morning and then the problem came up. Maybe it had something to do with the cold weather and uneven heating of the barrel, latch, and shelf.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2007, 01:23:23 PM »

Did ya smoke the latch shelf on the barrel? If so, how much latch engagement did ya end up with and was it even?

Thx,

Tim

rezz · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2007, 01:39:44 PM »

No smoke, I snuck some lipstick. Shhhhh.....
It looks like it was just barely latching and needs some more work. At the moment there is about a 1/16" in the middle of the shelf but the ends are not getting any/much contact at all.
In any event, the hammer issue is gone now. All clear with no contact with the transfer bar at all with the little bit of stoning. Looks like I need to do a little more fine tuning.

The good news is that this barrel shots 115gr Nosler Partitions real nice. That is what I wanted to deer hunt with.

The saga continues.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2007, 02:06:32 PM »

Good work, try to keep the latch shelf a flat as possible, ideally, the latch should contact it evenly the same all the way across, but only about 1/16" deep.

Tim

rezz · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2007, 03:17:00 PM »

Well, what I thought was some kind of interference between the hammer and transfer bar now seems more related to some kind of change in latching and hammer contact with the bottom of my scope. I noticed a worn spot on the scope so most likely the change in latching caused some minor change in barrel height that resulted in the hammer touching the scope. I could have sworn something was broke earlier today but couldn't figure out what. No wonder.

Anyway, I don't know what could have changed with the scope, it was on tight but I loosened it and moved it back a little to give more hammer clearance.

In my defense, the latch lever was definately not coming up as much as it did before so the latching changed somehow.
With today's stoning the latch lever is now up to about the same height as when closing my other barrel and back to where it was after my first attempt at fitting up this 06 barrel.

Thanks for the helpful suggestions Mc and Quick. You guys are much appreciated.

Now, much like another poster said, I'm going to have to look into reloading. These issues and factory ammo are combining to put a hurting on me. The good news is, I have plenty of good brass!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2007, 03:24:11 PM »

Recoil can cause the scope to move forward in the rings and scope/hammer contact can be the result, had it happen!

Did ya happen to notice POI change? That was my first clue before I noticed the hammer touching the power ring!!

Tim

rezz · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2007, 03:47:30 PM »

Well, maybe I noticed a change in poi at the time but if so I misplaced the cause.

I have been shooting pretty fast with 3 shot groups. The 06 puts the first 2 within 1/2" of each other and the 3rd shot is further out with one of them high, the other low about 1.5" . That is with shooting pretty much bam bam bam with maybe 30 seconds between shots. It was cold today, but had got up to about 28-30 degrees when I was shooting this barrel. I'll have to work on letting some time pass between shots and see what effect that has on the groups. So far this barrel looks to really like those 115gr Partitions. That's good.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2007, 04:02:33 PM »

Mine does the same thing, 2 shots within ½" and the 3rd opening the group up to 1". A little forend work will most likely help, but I've not needed 2 shots, let alone 3 shots for anything I'd shoot with the .25-06!!

Tim

rezz · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2007, 04:24:30 PM »

Yeah, me too. As long as the first shot hits right, the party's over.
Still, it's good to know that the others are in the ballpark too, just in case.
But man, it's a long time until the next deer season so I guess I'll have to settle for punching holes in paper and the occasional coyote for now.

I'll give this barrel another round at the range to make sure then switch back to the 22-250 for a while. I still think there is a problem with the scope on that barrel. I've got a Bushnell banner on it and a Mueller on the 06.

Have you ever been able to switch scopes between barrels and have the poi stay right?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2007, 05:12:57 PM »

Never tried it, but know of others that use Leupold and Warne QRWs that stay within ¼moa when the scopes are swapped out and back.

Tim

rezz · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2007, 07:48:08 AM »

I went out this morning, it was cold so I figured to try a coyote stand to kill some time before setting up the bench.
Had to move the scope last night to make room for the hammer so was not sure how the poi had changed on the 25-06 barrel.

Well, I setup and called with a rodent squeaker for about 10 minutes and then spotted one coming in at around 250 yards.
I shut up and the coyote kept coming, finally stopping broadside at about 120 yards. Laid the cross hairs on it and let one fly. The coyote took off like it was scalded and got out of sight behind some small trees. I figured it was a miss so hit the squeaker a few more notes and lo and behold here it came again, head on. Put the crosshairs on the chest and send one of the 115gr Nosler Partitions on the way. The coyote went down on the spot and quivered a few times, then stone dead.

The bullet was high due to the scope adjustment and hit her right between the eyes! No exit and no damage to speak of. That works for me.

Anyhow, loaded her up and went to setup the bench. Confirmed the 06 shooting high and made adjustments.
The same issue happened again, hammer contacting scope so I loosened it up, adjusted to clear, and tightened it down with a lilttle extra torque. maybe the Burris SigZ inserts are a bit slick and let the Mueller 4-16X40 sllip with recoil. Fired a few more rounds and no slip so hopefully the last torquing did the job. At least I know what to look for.

Shot the 22-250 again, had found that my Bushnell Banner 6-24X40 had a loose ocular bell last night. Tightened it up and the barrel shot pretty decent today with Hornady 50gr Vmax and UMC 50s. More on that later. Headed home with the coyote for some pics and knife work. Mighty fine day all considered! Especially with my first called in coyote in the bag.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2007, 08:25:38 AM »

Good callin and shootin!!!

I've had em slip too if I didn't tighten the ring screws good, did ya degrease em before you installed them? They come with a lot of oil on the rings, so I use alcohol to make sure there's no oil on the inserts, I've read of others roughing up the inserts with a little sandpaper before installing them, but I've not needed to do that yet.

Tim

MSP Ret · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2007, 08:31:49 AM »

Great job, great shot, and a great story also rezz, keep up the good work!!!....<><....

Quick I sent you a PM and would appreciate some discussion if you have the time...Thanks

rezz · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2007, 02:20:24 PM »

Thanks gents.
I'll keep an eye on these rings and take steps to prevent the slippage in the future if needed.
It may have something to do with cold temps and contraction of the inserts or something. Not sure.
Anywho, the mystery of the hammer is solved.

PartsMan · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2007, 03:32:40 AM »

Rezz,
If thats the barrel I sold you It always put the third quick shot high and left 1-2".
I didn't mind once I knew.
I kept trying to sight it in with three shot groups.
Never had to shoot two at deer.

rezz · « **Reply #20 on:** February 12, 2007, 05:44:30 AM »

Yeah, Partsman, that's the barrel.
Yesterday, I shot at 100 yards and on the first shot thought, hmmm, pretty good.l
Shot again, and looked thru the scope for the hole and couldn't find it.
Walked to the target and the 2nd shot was over lapping the first!
Didn't bother with the third shot.