Author Topic: Barrel won't latch with forend attached...??? help please! (Read 1205 times)

tallyho · « **on:** February 04, 2007, 06:31:16 AM »

Guys, I have a puzzling situation (at least it is puzzling to me!) - I just acquired a receiver and two barrels. One of the barrels is the one issued with the receiver, the other is a used barrel. This second barrel fits and locks up snugly on the receiver and one other of my receivers, as long as I don't put a forend on. As soon as I put a forend on it doesn't latch up properly on anything.

No forend attached, it goes 'click' and latches. Add a forend, no 'click' no latch. I have tried this with six different forends, 3 synthetic, 2 laminated, and 1 'pallet' wood. Doesn't latch as long as there is a forend on.

So far in my Handi adventures I have never found a barrel that didn't fit at least one of my receivers, so I haven't actually had to do any barrel fitting, and have no personal experience with it - I only know what to do theoretically from reading here about others who have done it.

Anybody else had this situation, and anyone suggest a fix? (Other than selling the barrel to one of you guys, of course!

)

Cheers
Kerry

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2007, 06:37:37 AM »

Kerry, how's the fit of the forend after you close the action? Real tight?

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2007, 06:45:24 AM »

This ought to be a simple fix. The two upper hinge piece extensions butt on the the frame preventing the the barrel to get to the most upper position.

Take a file and remove a little from the top extensions. A very small gap wont hurt there.

tallyho · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2007, 06:47:27 AM »

Tim, yah it is pretty tight.

Fred, thanks, I'm heading off to the workbench right now for a file...

Kerry

tallyho · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2007, 06:59:53 AM »

Okay, filing the extensions didn't change anything, barrel still won't latch - but I did notice that some of the forends I tried yesterday have a gap alread - about 1/16" on some of them... so I guess that wasn't the orignal prob anyway.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 04, 2007, 08:00:56 AM »

Look inside the bolt hole of the forearm..It most likely is being pushed back way to hard by the bolt stud coming off the barrel itself..If it is...it will be bearing hard against the front of the bolt stud towards the front..You can see this by simply having the forearm on with out the screw in it..and turning the rifle upside down and looking in the bolt hole.....Not all NEFs have the stud in the exact same place...some are real loose...some are real tight...some fit just like yours being way too tight....Take a small file and make a couple of very light stokes to the forward half of the bolt hole(muzzle end)..and I mean very light..This will allow the forearm to move a little forward on lock up..and it won't be noticeable..This a try and fit project just like doing a trigger job...except much easier..

...If the barrel stud isn't making contact inside the fore arm bolt hole..then you probably have too much bearing against the forward area where the barrel stud is welded against the barrel( the flat part)..and the wood will need to be relieved there very carefully...and would use a dremile tool on low speed...You won't have to remove a-lot...actually very little...But..if you do remove too much..you can either shim the rear spacer..or re-bed the forearm with Brownell's Acraglass bedding..or even RTV silicon...

Mac

Fred M · « **Reply #6 on:** February 04, 2007, 09:23:59 AM »

Try to mount the forearm with the screw inplace but not tight. It could be the forearm screw is pulling the barrel down preventing the lock up. In this case you need to full bed the hinge piece in that position with glass bed.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2007, 09:49:22 AM »

Kerry

Have you tried to swing the forarm on with the barrel in place and locked up ,this will tell you real quick if it is the hole in the forarm being to far back for the barrel .

stimpy

tallyho · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2007, 12:52:12 PM »

Well guys, I think it is resolved. What Mac suggested about the bolt hole was partially the case; the stud and hole did not align precisely. But even after opening the hole a bit, the latch would still let go about half the time when I pulled on the barrel... so I went back and read some more stuff about barrel fitting. I took a look at the latch shelf, and noticed that it seemed to have some uneven wear marks (I think I got that from something Fred and Quick had written) so I gingerly laid a few gentle strokes on it with a file - did this a few times and lo-and-behold she locks up now on one of my receivers (and that's all I wanted) with or without forend. In fact I tried my BC stocks on the thing, and it is just fine... by the way, it is a 357 max barrel (made max from mag by shaner - thanks Shane) and that is a caliber I really wanted, so I wasn't going to just get rid of it without at least a try at making it work.

Thanks for all the input. What a great bunch of guys!

At the risk of sounding like a softie, "I couldn't have done it without your help."

Cheers
Kerry

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2007, 12:57:25 PM »

I'm glad ya got it whipped, someone else had the problem, but I couldn't remember if they ever resolved it or who it was!

Tim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2007, 06:24:48 PM »

Cool...Now...go shot that 357Max...and make a range report on it...

Mac

tallyho · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2007, 07:51:25 PM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on February 04, 2007, 06:24:48 PM

Cool...Now...go shoot that 357Max...and make a range report on it...

Mac

Gonna do that as soon as I get some ammo loaded.

I got a bunch of 38 spl I can use, but I want some bigger boomin' stuff when I go to the range as well. I already put a receiver sight on it, and i think i'll but the BC stock on it as well, just 'cause it makes it look like one of the new 45LC BCs

...

So, I am gearing up for a range trip, and of course, it would be nice if it wasn't pouring rain!

But I might just go anyway. A wise old geezer once told me: if ya don't do stuff in the rain here on the wet coast, there's a lot of stuff ya won't be doin'

shaner · « **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2007, 01:30:46 AM »

wow you guys need to sit back and just read what happened here in this posting!!! like a crack team of brain surgons

workin on a unknown medical problem, in the surgery room, i was impressed, hahahah

all minds workin as one on a problem for a brother handiholic wow as i said i was impressed and in a record time to boot!!!!!

!!!!

PartsMan · « **Reply #13 on:** February 07, 2007, 03:14:36 AM »

I agree with shaner.
This is what this forum is all about.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 07, 2007, 06:49:17 AM »

Quote from: shaner on February 06, 2007, 01:30:46 AM

wow you guys need to sit back and just read what happened here in this posting!!! like a crack team of brain surgons workin on a unknown medical problem, in the surgery room, i was impressed, hahahah all minds workin as one on a problem for a brother handiholic wow as i said i was impressed and in a record time to boot!!!!! !!!!

As with brain surgeons .....sometimes we succeed...some times we loose one...

...but...were here to try to help as much as we can...

Mac

MSP Ret · « **Reply #15 on:** February 07, 2007, 07:57:26 AM »

Hi Mac, if you get a chance please check your PM's for a query related to barrel fitting, Thanks....<><....

tallyho · « **Reply #16 on:** February 07, 2007, 08:15:39 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on February 07, 2007, 06:49:17 AM

As with brain surgeons .....sometimes we succeed...some times we loose one... ...but...were here to try to help as much as we can...

Mac

Yah, and for awhile there, while I was working on the barrel/forend thing, I did feel like I had a hole in my head; but it was only to allow let my frustration out....

Fred M · « **Reply #17 on:** February 07, 2007, 08:57:14 AM »

tallyho.
Your origional problem was with the forearrm binding. working on the latch to make the gun lock up did not resolve the forearm binding. If the binding works it selve in you could end up with a loose latch.

You said the gun locked up fine without the forearm.

tallyho · « **Reply #18 on:** February 07, 2007, 12:01:59 PM »

Fred,
Here's what happened, as best as I can recall (it was 3 days ago, and my memory is full of lots of stuff these days).

Acquisition of 30/30 barrel and receiver (call it frame 'A') that are factory mated, plus one 357 barrel that I understood 'fit' the same frame. My idea was to add the 357 to another frame (call it 'B') that I have. When I put the 357 on my 'B' frame, it sounded and felt like it latched, but when I pulled on the barrel (moderately hard - with no forend) it snapped open.

Then I put the 357 on the 'A' frame since I believed it already fit that frame, and it seemed to latch up fine without a forend. Pulling did not cause it to snap open. I then added the forend to it on the 'A' frame and it snapped open when I pulled moderately on it.

I then put the 30/30 barrel on the 'B' frame and it fit and snapped into place with, or without a forend. And it did not snap open with pulling either way.

So the 30/30 barrel was okay on both frames. I decided to put the original 30/30 back on the original 'A' frame, leave it alone and work on getting the 357 together with the 'B' frame.

Back to the 357 on the 'B' frame, which snapped open when pulled very hard without a forend, and relatively easy when the forend was installed. I tried all the forends that I had, and even changed some buttstock (don't ask why

I was just trying everything)

That is when I posted the original of this thread.

After getting the responses, I did discover that the stud on the barrel and the forend hole(s) did not line up exactly and I filed one of the wooden forends so that it would fit better. That seemed to help initially, but when I pulled really hard on the barrel it still popped open. (Before filing, it popped open easily, so I figured I was on the right track.)

That is also when I went back and read about looking for an indication of unever wear on the shelf. It appeared to me that I had that, so I did the 'file and try' method until the barrel did not pop open even with lots of pulling pressure. And that is how it is still, the 357 barrel is on the 'B' frame and does not pop open.

Fred, I know you are very good at this stuff, and are very precise. But I am just a basic tinkerer with basic set of tools in a garage, so I am wondering if I might be still missing something, or if I otherwise screwed up?

Kerry

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 07, 2007, 01:28:06 PM »

Kerry

What i think the point that Fred was tring to make is that in your first post you said that it locked up with out the forarm , this would lead me to think that the forarm was putting pressure on the barrel and not letting it lock up , and he is worried that by filing the latch you may cause a problem as the forarm wears in on the barrel stud and cause a loose latch when the pressure is removed .

Do i have you confuzzled yet ?

stimpy

tallyho · « **Reply #20 on:** February 07, 2007, 02:32:03 PM »

Yup...

confuzzled for sure.

I'm only going to know if I get a latch prob after shooting it for awhile, right? And if so, is there a fix for that? Would putting a different forearm on make any difference?

And I did say it locked up without the forearm, but it was while it was on the 'A' receiver. It never actually locked up on the 'B' receiver, though after opening the hole in the forearm it seemed to lock up a little tighter, just took more effort pulling on the barrel to unlock it.

I was messin' with both barrels and both receivers and a bunch of forends at first... and truth be told, I don't exactly remember now what happened, and whether or not my inital posting was precisely accurate. I was definitely frustrated because I thought I had a 'combo' with 30/30 and 357 max barrels, and that didn't turn out to be the case. When I got calmed down, put the 30/30 away and focussed on just having the 357 barrel fit the 'B' receiver is when I posted the original question.

So, what I have now is a 30/30 and it's factory receiver (with no probs) and 357 max barrel on another receiver (B) that appears quite well fitted and locks up with or without a forend. The 30/30 barrel also fits on the 'B' frame with no probs, but the 357 max barrel still slips out of lock up (with a forend on) when on the 'A' receiver.

Ultimately, I have done what I have done (filing) and if I have caused a latch prob by filing, then I'll just accept that, and be wantin' a solution to it...

whatever that might be.

Kerry

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** February 07, 2007, 02:51:48 PM »

I haven't had to do it yet, but a steel shim could be epoxied or soldered to the latch shelf if needed, it's also soft enough that it could be upset enough to take up some slack, Fred touches on the latter in his barrel fitting info.

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #22 on:** February 07, 2007, 04:43:29 PM »

Tallyho.
When fitting a barrel to the action you don't do anything with the fore arm until you are happy with the fit and latch engagement.

To avoid any stress on the fore arm I bed the hinge piece with steel bed with out tighten the screw too much, only enough tension to hold the forearm inplace until th hinge bed is set up.

Now you can address the screw and the rest of the stock, O-ring, RV bedding, or foam, forearm front pressure etc. Non of this will have any effect on the latch engaging.

Of course most of the trouble comes with the multy barrel for a single frame.

tallyho · « **Reply #23 on:** February 07, 2007, 06:04:51 PM »

Thanks Fred and Quick, I am getting the idea: latch first, then forearm.

I don't know if I already screwed up or not, but I'll be paying attention ...

better late than never I 'spose.