Author Topic: Husqvarna 1907, 9mm Browning Long (Read 12392 times)

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **on:** February 01, 2007, 03:48:09 PM »

This is a copy of the Colt Browning 1903 as adopted by Sweden in 1907. Just got one in VG condition.

Does anyone still make 9mm Browning Long ammo, or do I have to shorten .38ACP cases to .80 inch? CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD, 3d Ed. gives dimensions that show it is possible. I have found modern Super cases with rims at about .389 that won't extract. I have to select cases with rims at least .402.

Any help with loads, etc!

Mikey · « **Reply #1 on:** February 02, 2007, 09:01:43 AM »

One of the major distrubtors of ammo, who usually advertizes in the Shotgun News about every other issue, sells 9mm Browning Long ammunition (older euro production). Don't recall exactly who it is but it is out there. You may also wish to contact Starline, and Ron Reed, to see if they provide or produce brass in that caliber.

As for loadings - originally the 9mm Browning Long was a bit hotter than the 9mm Parabellum and was John Brownings answer to the 9mm. I recall those pistols to be slim, classy and quite functional. As for loading data - you should be able to use 9mm data and not stress the pistol. If you can't find 9mm Browning Long ammo or casings you may wish to try some 9x21 brass (probalby get them from Starline) and load it to 9mm specs - they might just fit your chamber - may be a tad short (by a milimeter or so) but they should work. HTH. Mikey.

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2007, 06:03:14 PM »

Thanks for the help. As I am in Canada, and the good ol" USA has export controls I think I will make a few of my own, and keep my eye out for ammo/cases. Starlines distributor in Canada has to wait until he gets sufficient orders to make a buy worthwhille. Oh Well!

Mnswede · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2007, 06:04:40 AM »

You can use 38 ACP or ACP Super trimmed to .80". A recommended load, 115 JHP with 4.5grs of Unique.

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2007, 11:52:58 AM »

I have a Lyman356402 mould (121 GR truncated cone). I am thinking about this bullet over about 4 grains of Green Dot, with an OAL of 1.10 in. Any thoughts? The similar load for 9mm Luger in the Lyman Cast bullet Handbook show about 1000fps.

Minnesota Swede; I am working on shortening .38 Super cases to .8".

Mikey · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2007, 12:39:47 AM »

Sir Charles - what export controls are you speaking of?? Can you not import ammo into Canada??? If not, then again I recommend you try 9x21mm brass - that shows to be about 8.27mm long, which may be (1) easier to shorten than the 38 Super brass with just a file instead of a hacksaw and file, (2) reloadable.

Please realize that the 38 ACP and 38 Super both have a miniscule rim and may not chamber well in your 9mm Browning Long, which is a 9mm case and rimless. If you are lucky, the 9x21 cases may fit without being shortened.

Anywho, before you mentioned the export issues I saw an add in the Shotgun News from SAMCO that they have the 9mm Browning Long, Swedish made in the 70's for $67 for 250 rnds. HTH. Mikey.

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2007, 03:24:03 PM »

Mikey; As I said above my pistol requires the semi-rim of the same dimensions as the Super/.38ACP.. If a case has a rim of the same dimension as 9mm Luger (.389) it drops down into the chamber without the extractor being able to engage it. If of the super diameter of .402, it does headspace correctly, and will extract.

I will check out samco. Do you know if they are boxer primed?

The export controls I speak of cover firearm related exports over USD100. This makes it very expensive for an individual to buy online and intimidates dealers, who have to obtain Us export permits and Canadian import permits. The good thing is that Canadian businesses are finding ways to reduce their reliance on the USA!

PS; checked out SAMCO. They require a declaration of US citizenship/residency for arms & ammo. Back to the case trimmer!

Mikey · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2007, 03:43:33 AM »

Sir Charles: I believe the ammo SAMCO sells is both (2 different qualities and years of manufacture) is non-corrosive berdan primed. Some of their other stuff is corrosive. I understand now the prohibitions against individuals ordering ammo like that, and I personally think it bites the big one however, can you order through a dealer?

Case trimmer - bummer dude. Can you get a trim die??

OK but if you are saying that a 38 Super headspaces properly, you are saying that a 22.8mm long case properly headspaces in a chamber for a (possibly) 21mm long cartridge. Are you sure your 38 Super case isn't headspacing on the end of the chamber where the case mouth sits and having its .406 rim far enough above the chamber for the extractor to grasp the rim. Your 9x19 case would drop to far into a longer 9mm chamber - we used to see this with using 9x19s in 9mm Largo/38 pistols and sometimes bust our extractors if we shot them with the 9x19.

A 9x23 is only .02mm longer than a 38 Super. If there are any of those cases around you may want to try and see if it functions the same as a 38 Super case does - properly headspace and extract. If it does then you should think about using a 9mm case, like the 9x21 rather than the 38 Super case as the diameter of the 9mm case would more closely match that of the chamber. The 9x19 has a rim of .394, a case head of 390 and a case mouth of 380. The 38 Super has a .406 rim and a .384 straight body, giving you room for possible case rupture.

Hmmmm, he said, the plot thickens.................Mikey.

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2007, 04:08:32 AM »

Mikey; It doesn't headspace on the case at all. a full length SUPER case with a 9mm Luger rim size drops in past the extractor. I need to shorten them as the oal of a loaded round is 1.10", or it won't even fit the magazine, and the extra long mouth would catch on chambering. I've trimmed 5 cases for a trial load. BTW Lyman says the oal for the same bullet in 9mm Luger is 1.07", so almost the same. (The 4 gr GREEN DOT is a starter load for 9mm Luger in the Lyman CBHB)

I can't use Luger cases either;
-Rims too small,
-a good chance of a mix-up.

Chance of obtaining proper cases? Random at best! a lucky find at a gunshow.

Mikey · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2007, 01:18:48 AM »

Gotcha! Well, good luck. Hope you find some brass or, even better, some ammo. Mikey.

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2007, 03:28:23 PM »

I thought I'd strip the Husky before I shot it!

How do you take it down? The pin doesn't come out with a lift-and-a push like the Hi-Power or 1911 do.

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2007, 07:09:27 PM »

Well folks; I tried my home-brewed ammo., with 4 gr. of GREEN DOT. The 121 Lyman 356402 truncated cone bullet went about 1000fps, but wasn't accurate. The cases went about 6 - 8 ft., but I lost one case. The LEE 9mm 110gr.RN worked as well but it got too dark to continue shooting so I only popped one off. Lots left for next time.

I still haven't figured out how to strip those old Browning designs.

SAA · « **Reply #12 on:** April 06, 2007, 12:25:51 AM »

Here's all the info you need.

http://www.vist.lt/klasika/brown03.php3[url]]http://www.vist.lt/klasika/brown03.php3

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #13 on:** April 11, 2007, 05:24:35 AM »

Thanks SAA; I did try to "googlit", but didn't find this site. I just printed it and will try it out. I have lots of links to other Swedish arms info, thanks to Lars & Qball on TOR, and might get around to posting the links here.

The Browning 1903 manual is in English. All the other manuals seem to be in Czech. Oh, darn! Too bad I'm not a linguist.

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2007, 05:32:37 AM »

Thanks to the link to the manual posted by SAA, I was able to field strip my Husqvarna, AND put it back together again! It just needed me to get the feel on just how to wiggle & twist the barrel to get those lugs to slip in and mate with the frame.

I learned a few things;
1. it is a recoil operated design. I won't try to 'crank" my ammo.
2. The barrel leaded a bit with my cast bullets. I'll have to watch that.
3. contrary to what I thought earlier, a super case will NOT fully chamber, and yes, headspace is controlled by the rim. I will continue to make cases from "super' brass with a .403 rim diameter. I have a LEE case trimmer for 9mm Luger, and will chuck it in a hand drill to shorten them to .800. As I don't need a lot, just enough to make my 100 year old pistol sing on ocassion, that will do.

I also learned from a link sent by Lars, that Sweden replaced this pistol in 1939 with the Walther P38, only to switch to the LAHTI a year later, presumably because German stuff became unavailable. Both designs, of course, in 9mm Parabellum that could be loaded much hotter than 9mm Browning Long in a recoil operated pistol.

tnekkc · « **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2007, 07:43:24 AM »

Sarco has barrels and some other parts for the Husq.

My pistol came home from the gunshow already bushed to .380.
I use .380 brass, but can seat out to 1.090" for the old Swede, while real .380s with shorter mags get seated to .984".

copilot001 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 04, 2007, 03:28:15 PM »

Lets breath some life back into this thread...
Just got a Husqvarna with holster and two extra magazines. Now I have to build up some ammo for it.
Guess the ser. no is on right side....whats the stamps on the left side ...?
Husqvarna Vapenfabriks Aktiebolag...then forward of the safty K S no 223. on the rear it has the crown with GB under it
Nice little unmessed with Browning...A real impulse buy.

Besides...It was cheap

Mikey · « **Reply #17 on:** July 05, 2007, 12:32:53 AM »

copilot001: the "Husqvarna Vapenfabriks Aktiebolag" means it was made by the Husquavarna weapons factory, something or another; the K S no 223 means something else, and the GB with a crown means it was once owned by a royal GrayBeard (snort, snicker, giggle, lolololol).. Sorry, just hadda do dat. Mikey.

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #18 on:** July 05, 2007, 05:23:07 AM »

"Aktiebolag" is the Swedish word for "corporation" Heh! Copilot. are you a Canuck or a Yank? If you live in the land of the free, try SARCO for stuff, like ammo. If you are from the true north strong and free, go find some super cases and a case trimmer like I had to do.

I mark my .38BL cases with a feltpen ring around the case, so I can retrieve them from among all the 9mm & .40 trash at my range. They have too much time invested in them to lose.

Where did the holster come from?

SAA · « **Reply #19 on:** July 05, 2007, 08:28:21 AM »

I believe that the letters "GB" means Gustaf Björkenstam (inspector marks)
http://gotavapen.se/gota/m07/swedish_stamps.htm

copilot001 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 06, 2007, 01:09:33 PM »

Well....Sir Charles
The 1907, with the holster and a box of 25 original ammo and a full newer box of 50 arrived on these shores with a fellow from finland some 50 years ago...he finaly got talked out of it by me

The holster is as issued with two magazines
I like the orphans that nobody else wants,..goes well with my weblys and webly/fosburys

after I got it I found this thread and am trying to find .38 super localy....Live in Ontario...not too far from Toronto...the centre of the known universe

Had to get into handloading to shoot my sniders , martinis, and other orphans in my collection....I also have a bad habit of picking up after the other shooters at the range and then buying loading dies and appropriate firearm so I can use the brass....I,m a sick puppy....but happy

By the way Buffalo arms will ship to Canada...If the dollar cost is under $110 per order, no paperwork to get in the way...thought you might like to know...owner is Canadian.
As for the markings on the browning, the only one I,m qurious about is the one just forward of the safty....the K might mean Kavlry then possibly a rack no?

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #21 on:** July 09, 2007, 05:20:16 AM »

Who said TRANA is the centre of the known universe? I'm partial to "British California" myself.

Other than that, you sound like my kind'a sick puppy. If you show me your Fosberry, i'll show you my m83 reichsrevolver in the process of applying to "deregister".

copilot001 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 09, 2007, 06:03:54 AM »

HMMM...this could be interesting...you show me yours ,and I show you mine

The fosberry,s are a .32 and .38 ..I,d love to find a nice .455 .Got some nice pictures hosted,just have to sit down and figure how to post them here.
Where abouts in that part of the world are you ???most of my wifes and my family is in the Naniamo-Ladysmith area.Two grown daughters are married and settled here with grandkids ...at least they had the good sense to live several hours north in good hunting and fishing country

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #23 on:** July 10, 2007, 05:11:33 AM »

Copilot; I presently live & work in Prince George, just two hours from Barkerville. When I retire in March '08, i move back to my real hometown of Victoria. I shouldn't bad-mouth Trawna, (too much!) 'cause my little sister lives there.

copilot001 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 13, 2007, 04:37:14 AM »

Yeh,,,Toronto is OK
Just too politicaly correct for my taste....I tend to call a spade a spade, and bulls**t..Bulls**t when I hear it,which isn,t too well received by the powers that be around here...for example...a mayor so full of his own B/S and importance that there,s no need for voters and taxpayers to have any say... and things are so correct here I,ll have to go out of town or use mail-order to get .380 super brass

...A city this size and I have to go out of town to get what I need

common as dirt brass is no problem...it,s he odd stuff you have to hunt for.
Well...there,s a show a few miles north of here sunday, and if I can,t find any there Ellwood Epps is just a few miles further up the road.
How are thing on the Island

reason I,m asking is I still own a house in Naniamo and may well move back when the wife retires in a couple years. that is if you,r not too correct there as well.

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #25 on:** July 13, 2007, 05:16:01 AM »

Copilot; We do live on the LEFT coast after all! Its not that bad, Nanaimo is good, in my view. There is a good 600 yard range, which is where the Island's long range shooters of all disciplines gather. And most of the lefties stay over on the lower mainland. Rural BC has always been conservative. Nanaimo is expensive, with a lot of retired folk settling there.

Best of all, you can shoot outdoors all year 'round! Secondly, if you mention guns out here, you don't find yourself either alone (Shunned!) or in in a one sided debate about how horrible guns are.

copilot001 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 15, 2007, 08:58:58 AM »

Welll
went to a show today and got lucky...found a set of RCBS dies for the browning and a couple hundred new .38 super brass....It.s playtime

Let you know what happens.

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #27 on:** July 16, 2007, 05:30:15 AM »

Dies!! I just used my old 9mm parabellum dies. Shorten the brass, per my earlier posts. See you in Nanaimo; - Someday!

copilot001 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 01, 2007, 03:33:43 AM »

Well..mickey and Sir Charles
after spending a couple glorious weeks with the grandkids on their first camping/fishing trip I finaly got to play with the browning.
The star-line brass has a rim dia. of 0.384which is a lot less than whats listed in the cartridge books.I E/mailed them about that and didn,t get a reply so decided to just try and make few.....well...I was not impressed....they just fell down the hole
now I have to ask what manufacturer,s brass did you guys use?
Also the extractor broke firing the original ammo...checking it at home I see that the extractor was fixed at one time and broke in the same place...got a new extractor on order from numrich which should be here soon.the few original rounds I fired at 15-20 yards impressed me...this thing has potential

In the meantime I got another toy to play with...a swedish Ljungman M42B in very good condition...Goes well with all my other swedes

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #29 on:** August 02, 2007, 01:45:02 PM »

Copilot; I seem to fall back on R-P & W-W. Both have been successful. I have a few starlines, but thought the rims were large enough. I'll have to check. The small rims are required if making cases for some of the other stuff, I think 9mm LARGO.

Those Ljungemans are great aren't they? They set a record. From concept to issue only 9 months! Play he** with brass though.