Need a rifle for NRA High Power "across the course"

[carl425]

I'm looking for a bolt action repeater to shoot NRA high power matches.  I need the ability to mount high quality iron sights, and a 5-shot magazine (detachable or stripper clip loadable).  243 preferred.

The AR-15 owns these matches, but I just don't like gas guns.  The Tubb 2k looks really cool, but the wait is too long and the price too high.

Any suggestions?

[R.W.Dale]

 Like you I didn't want a semi either. I went this route.

Remington 7615 Police





 Williams makes a click adjustable reciever sight that fits remington pumps and autoloaders. Now this may not be as refined as what you're lookin for but I think it'll do just fine in our local 2 and 3 hundred meter matches

[safetysheriff]

www.long-range.com/forums/ or www.nationalmatch.us/forums/index.php?   should get you to two very interesting sites that have top-flite competitors disucussing their arms/ammo/shooting accessories/etc.  with each other as well as with rookies.    i'd recommend you look at those sites.  long-range.com is for the NRA matches and others at 600 yds' and over.    the other site is for some of the shorter-range matches i believe, with less accent on the longer-range stuff.

good shooting to you,

ss' 

[Lawful Larry]

www.long-range.com/forums/ or www.nationalmatch.us/forums/index.php?   should get you to two very interesting sites that have top-flite competitors disucussing their arms/ammo/shooting accessories/etc.  with each other as well as with rookies.    i'd recommend you look at those sites.  long-range.com is for the NRA matches and others at 600 yds' and over.    the other site is for some of the shorter-range matches i believe, with less accent on the longer-range stuff.

good shooting to you,

ss' 

I guess these sites don't like visitors.  You have to be member to get in.  Don't seem to be a right friendly bunch now do they?

[Fast Ed]

There are stripper clip guides available for Rem 700's.  You can get the rifle you want, put on the stock you want, mount the sights you want and get the stripper clip guide mounted.  Instant bolt action high power rifle.  All it takes are a couple of holes drilled in the receiver.  In fact, the older Remingtons already have the holes for aperature sights.

From there, you can look at barrels, bloop tubes, slings and the rest of the equipment needed to compete.

Good luck.

Fast Ed

[targshooter]

carl425,
I believe Remington still offers a Model 700 variant called the 40 XC, which is set up for the national match course. Mine is 30 + years old, but the version I saw about ten years ago still had the stripper clip guide in the receiver. The stock on the newer rifles is nicer than that on my older version (the fore end is kind of square on the bottom on mine, whereas the newer ones have better ergonomics on the stock IMO). The butt stock is adjustable and there is a rail for the palm rest. Google on Remington model 40 XC and I believe you will find references. Also, I believe Remington offers the rifles through their Custom Shop. Try their site. I have the Olympic front and rear aperture sights, and this rifle shoots very well.

[Swampman]

I've done it with an 03A3, and a Colt Target Sporter.  It was easier with the Colt. .  You'll never win with the bolt gun, but it is fun.

[safetysheriff]

I guess these sites don't like visitors.  You have to be member to get in.  Don't seem to be a right friendly bunch now do they?

larry,

i went onto the site, logged-out, was directed to the next page and found a place to allow you to register with the site.   that's all.   they are very friendly and very helpful.    i don't see where the problem is except i should not have put   "   /forums/    "   into the web address i guess.    BUT, that's not their mistake.   that's mine.

i still recommend those sites.    perhaps a 'search' inputting long-range.com would get one to the registration screen.

ss'   

[klong]

Where are you located? I can probably get you in touch with someone near you to provide some help. I shoot both gas guns and bolt guns in this sport. What caliber are you looking for?

[winman]

I could fix you up with a new unfired Remington 40XC in .308, heavy stainless barrel, McMillan adjustable stock, repeater with the clip slot. Straight from the factory custom shop. E-mail me if interested.

[Aardvark]

 I'm no expert but my experience says the Remington 700 is a pretty fine out of the box gun for great accuracy..My choice for flat shooting cartridge would have to be the 25-06.

[carl425]

Thanks for all the responses.  Here's the answers to the questions posed:

Caliber: My first choice would be the new 6.5x47 Lapua.  Tubb's 6mm looks interesting, but I'm not into forming my own brass.  The good old 243 wouldn't be bad either.  I could probably deal with the 308 if the other choices were unavailable.

Location: I'm in Richmond, VA

700 and stripper clip:  Sounds like a good idea, but I'm not aware of a current model 700 with a 5-shot magazine which is required for hi-power.

Sheriff: Thanks for the pointer to the national match forum, it's full of great info.

winman: I'm interested in the 40x, but I don't have your email id

[safetysheriff]

maybe you should also look at www.6mmbr.com and spend some serious time reading what they have to say.   they have A LOT of information!    some of the Model 700 actions they discuss on their 'Rifle of the Week' column (i think that's what they call it) have been extremely successful.   

i'd discourage the use of a .243 Winchester because it is so hard on barrels.  part of the theory behind that is the shoulder angle and the short neck.    the 6mm Rem' is actually easier on barrels.  but at www.6mmbr.com you'll see a good discussion of a number of options.

the 7mm-08 Rem' caliber puts you into less recoil and possibly better ballistic co-efficients than the .308 Winchester; and the .260 Remington is also a contender in Long Range competition.    you should be able to find Match-Grade projectiles for both of those alternatives.   

i'd start with a Model 700, learn to shoot Very Well, and then do the mod's to my rifle if they are needed.    a Model 700 varmint rifle might be the best place to start if your budget won't allow a custom or semi-custom rifle.   

let us know how it goes, please.

take care,

ss'   

[carl425]

Sheriff,

I've spent a lot of time at 6mmBR.  Lots of very cool stuff.  I particularly like the Eliseo 6mmBR bolt repeater.  The only problem is that I'm a scared off by the cottage industry nature of the product.  If it dies for some reason 5 years from now, who's going to fix it for me?

I know what you mean about the 7-08.  I shoot one for high power silhouette.  I load 168 and 150 grain Sierra Matchkings for it.  It is currently the 2nd most popular round behind the 260 for silhouette.  The new Lapua 6.5x47 is coming on strong with guys like Mark Pharr shooting it.  The issue here with the 700 however is that I can't locate a current model with a 5-round magazine (in any caliber larger than 223) which is required to shoot the across the course game.  Have I missed something?

[safetysheriff]

    www.long-range.com/Links.htm   takes you to a part of the site that shows you gunsmiths they recommend as well as a host of other vendors they like.   one of those 'smiths should be able to help with a combination of parts for working up a rifle such as Fast Ed spoke about.   right now that's the shortest route to a Model 700 with 5-shot magazine, and a barrel with an appropriate twist to fire a bullet of sufficient weight and bc', that i can think of.    i wouldn't try it at ranges over 600 yds' with a .223 unless you get a fast-twist barrel.    AND.....i'd much rather do it with a .260 or a 7mm-08 because they handle the wind so much better.....as you know.   

load development will be important; but practice that helps you learn to read the wind will be even more important at those competitions where some of those people live and breathe for that sport! 

let us know, yet again, how it goes,

ss'   

[gt40]

What does "accross the course" mean? Is it a different type of High Power. If not how can you go from a standing position to a sitting position and shoot 10 shots accurately in 12 seconds with anything other than a semi- automatic.?   

[safetysheriff]

gt'

why not look at the 6mmbr site linked above, and the long-range.com site linked above and see what they say about their various 'across-the-course' matches.    you'll also find more things you'll be interested in if you take the time to do so.

however:  this GBO site right here, with its various topics, is the one i spend the most time on!

take care,

ss' 

[klong]

gt40 "across the course" refers to shooting 10 to 20 shots offhand unsupported (by sling) with 1 minute average per shot  allowed at 200 yards; 10 to 20 shots sitting rapid, fired in 10 shot strings with 60 seconds to fire starting from standing position with at least 1 magazine change, fired at 200 yards; 10 to 20 shots fired rapid fire prone in 10 shot strings in 70 seconds starting from standing position with at least 1 magazine change, fired at 300 yards; and  20 shots at 600 yards fired prone with average allowed time of 1 minute per shot. All of this done with iron sights. Each stage you are allowed 2 sighters. This is what David Tubbs is 11 times national champion.  The national match takes place in Ohio and takes most of a week to fire. There are usually between 600 and 900 competitors, mostly from the US and Canada. There is also a service rifle championship fired with the same format the week before the NRA national match, no sighters allowed. It is service rifle only, and usually has 1200 to 1400 shooters. These are also sometimes refered to as the "national match course"

[BNoz01]

I've got a used Rem 40X-XC that you're referring to above.  It's got the milled receiver for stripper clips, five round magazine, etc.   Mine is in .308 caliber.  If interested, then email me at BNoz01@yahoo.com.  You can see brand new one's on GunsAmerica.com and Gunbroker.com. 

I'd let mine go for around $1500 (without sights). 

B. Noz.
Colorado Springs, CO

[Fast Ed]

The .260 would be a great cartridge to start with.  Brownells has a magazine extension for short action Remingtons that will allow 5 at least in the magazine.  The 40X is a great rifle.  You just have to decide how much you want to spend.  ATC matches are a mix of slow and rapid fire.  One of the reasons the .223 is so popular is that the recoild recovery is so much faster than a .308 in the rapids.  Take a look at ballistics and you will see that the 175 .308 kicks butt over the 80 .223 in the wind at 600 yds.  So why is everyone going to smaller cartrudges?  Recoil recovery.  A .308 would be a good place to start, but you would be better served later with a smaller bullet with good ballistics that kicks less.  .260, .243, 6X, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC and .223 are all that type.  Long range, 600, 800, 900, 1000 yards is all slow fire.  Recoil recovery doesn't have the level of detrimental affect on performance that it does in the rapids at 200 and 300 yards.  It makes you tired, but it doesn't slow you down.  That's why lots of shooters are going to stuff llike the 6.5-.284 for long range.  Good balllistics, and it doesn't contiunally kick the snot out of you like a .300 Win Mag.

If it was me, I would build one from a box-stock Remington adding the goodies as I could afford them.  That's what I did with both my service rifle and match rifle.  Of course, if you have more money than me, and it's not hard, get the 40X and rebarrel for .260 or one of Tubbs proprietary rounds and go shooting.

Enjoy, and I hope to see you on the firing line.

Fast Ed

[azshooter]

The AR-15 has a lot of options available.  What is it you don't like about it?  Perhaps some aftermarket furniture could make it more to you lliking?  When I shot M-16's 20 years ago I really did not like them (even when on full auto).  Many years later, I have learned to love my AR-15's.  If you don't want a gas gun try an old Springfield.

ETA- I have to edit this with ONE more comment.  I became a convert to the AR after I found out my MOA Ruger M77 IN .223 was easy to outshootwith my sub-MOA Bushmaster AR-15.  The accuracy of the AR will be hard to beat inside 600M.  "You mean I can shoot 1 inch groups at 150 yards and I don't have to work a bolt!!!!"  - Yeah - I'm a convert.

[Larry Gibson]

I'm looking for a bolt action repeater to shoot NRA high power matches.  I need the ability to mount high quality iron sights, and a 5-shot magazine (detachable or stripper clip loadable).  243 preferred.

The AR-15 owns these matches, but I just don't like gas guns.  The Tubb 2k looks really cool, but the wait is too long and the price too high.

Any suggestions?

For a new rifle you might look at the Savage Target M12 FTR in .308. I have an older Savage Comp in .223 and like it for accrss the course. Stripper clip guides are available from Shooters Choice. The reciver sight bases for the M70 work fine. It is quite easy to switch out barrels on the Savages so a barrel in 6.5 Rem would be easy to do. You might also check at gunshows as With the advent of ARs pretty much dominating the NMC there are a lot of older match bolt guns going for "reasonable" prices, M700s and M70s.

Larry Gibson