black powder measurement

[firebuckeye]

I have a strange question.  I had an old cannon and was putting 1/2 cup of powder in it.  How much is that in proper measurement terms?  I am trying to figure how much weight i was using.  I think I was over powering and want to know for my next one.

[Artilleryman]

Approximately four ounces.  That would be about right for a two inch bore if you were using 1FG or coarser in a two inch bore or larger.  You need to get a scale so that you can weigh your charges.   Guessing at the powder charge well get yourself in trouble real quick.  I don't want to be reading about you in the news. 

[firebuckeye]

I was putting that in a 1" bore. shooting blanks and the bottomblew out.  It made some serious booms,  It lasted for maybe 30-45 shots and that was it.  But I never read the first thing about cannons.  I am building another one, or buying one, and doingit right.  No one got hurt thank fully.
 

[Rickk]

4 ounces in a 1 inch bore is... well... ambulance ride.

[firebuckeye]

it was sweet though.  huge smoke ring, everyone was pretty much in all when I lit it off at a party.  It was like silent for a moment.  I cant wait to get another.  I am thinking of a 1.5"x10" boat cannon.  That should make a boom right?

[GGaskill]

It should be OK; just don't put too much powder in it.

[Cannonmaker]

Many lives have been lost from venturing into the unknowen.  Once at a gun show I had a man tell me he had a cannon with the tube wieging 90 lbs.  It was new to him, he bought a can of Black Powder, put half of the can into the bore, then a projectial.  When he fired the piece after all the smoke cleared they went on the hunt for the tube (cannon Barrel).  The found it apx 95 feet to the rear, still intact.  They never had a carrage, just straped to a large block of wood.  I told him he had good quility steel to still be intact.  I also told him he is lucky, along with his friends, to be alive.  I don't remember the bore, I do remember telling him the can of BP should have lasted at least a dozen or two shots.

Lets learn so we may live.

Rick

[firebuckeye]

I know this post should go somewhere else but I am just going to ask.  With a cannon, shooting blanks, is it hard on the trunnions to go over a certain angle?  Just curios. I would like to be able to fire straight up sometimes.

[Cat Whisperer]

it was sweet though.  huge smoke ring, everyone was pretty much in all when I lit it off at a party.  It was like silent for a moment.  I cant wait to get another.  I am thinking of a 1.5"x10" boat cannon.  That should make a boom right?

Firebuckeye -
I KNOW the feeling - when I cut loose with my 4.5" mortar and the round hangs in the air for 12 seconds coming down just past the 100 yard targets snaping and ripping limbs off trees - while the whole firing line went silent - the folks next to me setting down their MP5's and other class III stuff to see what I was shooting!

In that light, you've heard concerns about safety.  I have seen a cannon explode - from 15' away!  That was when I was 14 - some 45 years ago.

Take the hint and go SLOWLY, ask lots of questions (one or two at a time); hammer through this so that you KNOW when YOU light the fuse that it's a cannon and not a bomb.

You're headed in the right direction - don't veer off course!

[firebuckeye]

I will.  I am really excited about all this. This forum is awesome. Lots of info and really I am taking it all in.  I am smarter than I was then.

[Cat Whisperer]

Yeah!

We've been there.  That's how we can easily recognize the signs of addiction!

[Terry C.]

Four ounces is roughly 4 times the norm for a 1" bore.

I use 500 grains (approx. 1 1/8 ounce) Fg as a blank load in my 1.156" bore. And I use that only because it has proven safe over time. I started with 400 grains.


Some people seem to believe (and will tell you) that you can't overcharge with BP, any excess just blows out of the open barrel. That's pure, dangerous BS.

Even with no wadding, you are still pushing a column of air out of the barrel upon ignition. Air is fluid, but it does offer some resistance, hence the bigger 'boom' that longer tubes have when compared to mortars. With normal charges this is not a problem, it's just a part of the dynamic.

But when you up the charge 400%, abnormal things start to happen. Given enough velocity and pressure,  air can become an immovable obstruction.


As the song goes:

• Unbendable steel bends
• If the fury of the wind is unstoppable
• I’ve learned to never underestimate
• The impossible

Hopefully (with lessons learned), your future experiences will all be safe and fun.

[Don Krag]

The best results Ive had were 195 gr Fg with a patched 15/16" steel ball and 170 gr Fg with a 3 oz patched lead ball fired out of my 1.1" bore, 17" bore length. Roughly half of Terry's blank loads, so it seems on par. For general screwing around (shooting cans, old pumpkins/watermelons, etc), I'm usually only using about 100 gr.

This brings up a few questions along the same lines, though.

I've seen lots of people refer to using 1+ oz of powder in 1" bores when firing projectiles. Aside from the original proofing, I've only fired mine with 220 gr once (lead ball) and it kicked like a mule and made one heck of a noise. I really can't see bumping it up anywhere near 400 gr! I was using the chart up in the reference section for 1.1" bore and I beleive ~210 grains is the upper end for 1.1".

Are there any load books/guides for .750+ bore short-barreled guns? I have several more guns/cannon in works with bores ranging from ~.750 - 1.25", but barrel(bore) lengths of only 8 - 12". What's the rule of thumb for FFg vs Fg vs Cannon powders? Obviously, if most of my powder is burning outside the barrel, I need to switch to a finer granulation starting with a reduced load. I've seen a few references to bore dia, but bore length is going to play a big part as well. Does The Complete Cannoneer go into loads and such for .750- 2" bores or does it focus on the 2 - 4" full scale stuff?

P.S. 40 gr FFg, 1/2" of papertowel wadding topped by a frozen cherry tomato is an excellent load as well. Makes for interesting "paintball" splatters on stumps.

[Rickk]

Tomato plants are somthing akin to weeds in the way they grow. Wherever a tomato falls to the ground a few dozen seeds will make a dozen or more new plants the following year. They pop up just about everywhere in our garden.

In August we have way more Cherry tomatos than we know what to do with.

Now I know what to do with them :-)

Ironically, wherever it hits the seeds will grow and make more cherry tomato plants.

[Terry C.]

Don, I use 250 gr. Fg behind an unpatched 1.125" lead ball. These balls weigh 4¾ ounces cast from wheelweight lead.

I have tried more, as much as 280 grains, but recoil was so violent that I feared my carriage would be damaged.

[Double D]

The best results Ive had were 195 gr Fg with a patched 15/16" steel ball and 170 gr Fg with a 3 oz patched lead ball fired out of my 1.1" bore,17" bore length.

I don't see any pressure issues with  the patched steel ball, but I would worry about hanging up the ball in a fouled bore. How will you ever get it out.

Are there any load books/guides for .750+ bore short-barreled guns? I have several more guns/cannon in works with bores ranging from ~.750 - 1.25", but barrel(bore) lengths of only 8 - 12". What's the rule of thumb for FFg vs Fg vs Cannon powders? Obviously, if most of my powder is burning outside the barrel, I need to switch to a finer granulation starting with a reduced load. I've seen a few references to bore dia, but bore length is going to play a big part as well. Does The Complete Cannoneer go into loads and such for .750- 2" bores or does it focus on the 2 - 4" full scale stuff?

The More Complete Cannoneer covers Cannon shooting in General and most of what is written applies to all cannons. Appendix I is dedicated to cannons smaller than 2 inch.  This Apendix covers issues specific to small cannons.  The load chart is for prudent loads for cannons from .45 cal to 1.5.  Even with the big guns Switlik warns warns start ridiculously lower and work up to the maximum.



The Cannon  I use in the SAMCC cannon matches is .45 cal and it uses 40 gr. of black powder. Just exactly what the chart recommends.  Use heavier charges gets you know where, accuracy is out the window and it  just tends to tear your equipment up like Terry C said.

[Don Krag]

The steel balls are patched, but still slide in with just light finger pressure. Several firm whacks will get the cannon to cough it up. I clean fouling between shots when shooting patched loads. The only time I've had an issue was shooting green spruce pinecones out of it up in PA this past Summer. Pine sap built up and a fuse burnt out, plugging the hole. Pinecones don't like to come out backwards, especially down a sap crusted barrel! I managed to pick out the fuse remnants and spark it off using some FFFF and slowmatch.

My gonne/tiller weighs in around 30 lbs. I have a hook on the front for hooking onto fences, logs, etc, to absorb recoil...but I sometimes forget to make sure it is solid against something. having felt 170 - 195 gr....I bet 280 really rocked the carriage! For the 3 oz lead balls, I hammered 3 oz fishing weights into round balls. They come out to about 7/8". I kept accidentally rolling them out of the barrel, so i patched them with a little worn t-shirt material.

I'll pick up a copy the end of this month of the More Comeplete Cannoneer. My birthday is the end of Feb. I sent all my relatives a list of other artillery and related books complete with on-line ordering links and instructions. I'll still get socks, shirts and sweaters from my side of the family, but the in-laws seem to enjoy the ordinance and will probably spring for a few.

I tend to stick to the low side of loads. In .62 - .69 cal stuff, we've got much better results with moderate loads than going full tilt and packing in max charges. I guess I'm still new to all this and I'm still getting used to powder loads measured by the full oz and such! I look at an oz of powder and think "holy crap...that's a lot"!

P.S. Green spruce pinecones are about 1.125 " diam and 5-6" long. I was using 2/3 cap fulls of Fg Scheutzen powder in small foil packs. The pinecones consistently spiralled out and went about 250 yards when fired at ~45* angle. A full cap full and you could barely see them sailing. 1.5 caps and they can't be seen...2 caps and it just rains down pinecone parts. I also learned that you can carve a "bullet" out of a potato with decent results at low loads .