Tikka T3 in a 25-06

[Buckfever]

I have a few questions for anyone who has this rifle.  Does the 22 1/2" barrel have a much affect on velocity?  Is this caliber as accurate as other Tikka T3's?  I have several.  I thought you had to have a 24" barrel?  I am starting to look around for a 25-06.   Thanks  Buckfever

[nomosendero]

This is one of those questions sure to start an argument, tho I know that you are not wanting that & neither do I. I have shot this round since the mid 70's in several different rifles. I think the Tikka
a great deal & I think it is a great rifle, however I would not buy a 25-06 with a 22" barrel for any
price. Someone will probably say that with their chopped off 18" they get 3,600fps with 120 gr. bullets, I expect it. But a 25-06 needs a 24" barrel & a 26" is better. I currently use a couple of 26"
versions, one in AI & I like the extra performance. I will never again buy one with the shorter tube.

[SuperstitionCoues]

I will second what Nomosendero has said.  He is absolutely right.  Velocity and barrel length in the 25-06 is a function of physics.  Shorter barrels will negatively alter the velocity and accuracy.  There is no way around it.  Buy one with at least a 24" barrel. 

[Brithunter]

Hi Guys,

      Well one cannot argue about the velocuty loss but accuracy should not be effected at all with a short barrel providing it has the right twist even a 12" barel will be accurate. I believe that the .270 Win is also in the same "slot" as the 25-06 on this as it too really needs a longer barrel to get the most out of it velocity wise.

    What I don't understand is why such a fuss is made about 24"+ barrels being too long and unwieldly  the same folks who do complain about long rifle barrels then quite happily go out hunting the same terrain with a 12G shotgun which often longer than their rifles  Strange inded.

[Grubbs]

It wouldn't bother me one iota.  Sako has been making rifles longer than any American company, I bet they know what they're doing.  Velocity loss won't amount to a hill of beans.

[nomosendero]

Hi Guys,

      Well one cannot argue about the velocuty loss but accuracy should not be effected at all with a short barrel providing it has the right twist even a 12" barel will be accurate. I believe that the .270 Win is also in the same "slot" as the 25-06 on this as it too really needs a longer barrel to get the most out of it velocity wise.

    What I don't understand is why such a fuss is made about 24"+ barrels being too long and unwieldly  the same folks who do complain about long rifle barrels then quite happily go out hunting the same terrain with a 12G shotgun which often longer than their rifles  Strange inded.

100% correct & I have seen this same situation with shotgunners, who go into mean thickets after upland game, but they need a short barreled rifle in their Deer stand.

[nomosendero]

It wouldn't bother me one iota.  Sako has been making rifles longer than any American company, I bet they know what they're doing.  Velocity loss won't amount to a hill of beans.

Did Wea./Howa know what they were doing when they offered the 20" barreled Vanguard carbine in 7mmMag & 300WM? How about when
Rem., you know that 160 year old or so company know what they were doing when they offered a LIGHT 350 mag with a short barrel & a shotgun style vent rib on a bolt gun & a 6.5mag with a short carbine barrel (no ballistic sense in a short 6.5mag tube), only to fail. Oh, & they did it again with the vent ribs only to fail again. Big successful companies mess up too.

But besides that, some companies to cut cost & to be standard will offer 22" barrels in non-mags & 24" in magnums. Hmmm, let's see, does a
308, 270, 30-06, 35 Whe, 223, etc. reach the exact same level of efficiency with this length of barrel. Does the 264 WM, 300WM, 338WM, 7RUM, & 458WM reach the exact same level of effiency with the exact same length of barrel. No one using ANY degree of logic can say that
this would be the case.

Some companies who wanted to offer the customer better performance & pay attention to detail offer the 25-06 in 24 & 26" tubes & mags like the 300RUM in 26" instead of 24". Did they now what they were doing, yep!! Did Sako know what they were doing, yep!! Sako's priorities were different, that being to have the non mags in a 22", performance was not the priority. Such is the world of manufacturing.

As far as it not making a hill of beans, my chron. results suggest otherwise. Grubbs, if you have actual chronograph results that show the 22" to do just as good as a 24 or 26", esp. with the heavier bullets with the slower powders, please share your secrets, powders, primers, etc., as I am ready to share my results as well. But at this point I have my doubts.

[Todd1700]

The velocity loss of a barrel 1 1/2 inches shorter is a given but the only place you would ever notice the difference is on a chronograph. As far as on game performance the small difference in velocity is far too little to matter in any meaningful way. As for a barrel 1 1/2 inches shorter being inherently less accurate? Well, I gotta disagree there as long as the barrel is at least long enough to stabilize the type bullet you are firing through it. I own one Tikka T-3 in 25-06 and have shot Tikkas owned by other people. I have yet to encounter one that wasn't a good shooter. In fact they are garnering quite a good reputation for accuracy compared to other rifles in their price range. And a lot of those standard rifles that a Tikka will outshoot have 24 inch barrels. Thus proving that the quality of a barrel is more important than it being 1 1/2 inches longer.

It's hard for me to invision what another inch and a half of barrel could do to improve groups like these.

[nomosendero]

Nice group, Todd
That's why I did not say the accuracy is not good & I don't know why that would be the case. Tikka's are accurate guns. Like you stated, velocity loss is a given, which is the whole point of the thread.  As far as only the chronograph knowing about the velocity,
not really as the down range performance will know, a simple matter of trajectory & wind drift. If these are not important, then I would not own a 25-06, but to each his own. The maximum distance that some will shoot while hunting Deer & the maximum distance that you have mentioned in the past would make this a moot point for YOU. If the original poster thinks that he wants maximum performance from a 25-06 then he needs to know that vel. will suffer as you admitted. And a 26" tube is even better.
My Sendero was getting 3,300fps with a 120 & allmost 3,475 with a 100. This is a fast barrel. The average in the other 26" tubes that I checked was more like 3,240 & 3,425 as average numbers. Look to drop another 75 fps or so with the 24" & 100 or so with the 22". The old 25fps per inch stuff is pretty close with 308, even 30-06 and others, but not in the 25-06 for obvious reasons.

Bottom line is the accuracy is there with a good barrel, be it 19" or 30", but the 22" would be like having a Roberts, which is a nice round. If this meets your per. goal, fine, but if you want a 25-06 that performs as it should, get at least a 24".

BTW, my Sendero is a consistant 1/4-3/8" performer with favorite loads.

[Grubbs]

hey nomosendero, if you would read carefully my last post you would see that I said velocity loss wouldn't amount to a hill of beans, I didn't say there would be none.  I'll continue to say that velocity loss will not be an issue in any hunting situation, ever with this Tikka.  Obviously it will shoot lights out like Todd1700 showed you.  Probably with no modifications whatsoever if it's anything like my 3 Tikkas.  I'd buy the Tikka 25-06 before I'd buy any Remy, Winchester, Savage, etc......and the list goes on. 

[nomosendero]

Hey Grubbs, so, where's the data? Oh, I forgot. It doesn't matter.

BTW, I have seen many a one holer 25-06 with different brand rifles.

It would have been more accurate to say that the velocity loss would not amount to a hill of beans to YOU. The velocity loss does make a hill of beans to ME. By your reasoning it makes no difference if you shoot a 257 Roberts,  25-06 or a 257 Wea., it's just velocity. I look at velocity as trajectory, energy, & wind drift. This was a big part of the question, actually the main part. A Encore Handgun may indeed offer extreme accuracy, but the velocity does not compare. People that I know that shoot long range with the 25-06 would not own a 22" on a bet.

The main thing to you is it's a Tikka, that is evident by your posts. I would be willing to bet that if the Tikka had a 20" barrel, the same people would still buy it. Well, I am cool with that, it's your money & for the shooting that you likely do, you are right, it won't make a hill of beans. If a brand is more important than the performance, heck run with that brand. I simply don't have brand loyality, I use different brands & diff. platforms. I know the folks at 6mmbr, Tactical & other serious shooters would jump on the Tikka in a second if it gave them an edge, but no. I am looking at a Tikka now & I like them, but it is one of many. The new Icon has alot more thought in it than a Tikka, but to me just another rifle to try, I won't marry it either.

[nomosendero]

Buckfever, I am sorry about this. I told you an argument would occur in my first post, they do on barrel length discussions every time, I should not get involved in this entry level stuff. Like I said, I don't want it & have bigger fish to fry.

I researched this one in the mid 70's. 

I am done with this one!!

Bye now!! 

[Grubbs]

nomo, I didn't mean to start an argument with a guy like you.  I can see you're smarter than everyone else.   I should have said "screw you" and been  done with it.