M97 Trigger

[kgb]

I've got a 7.5" M97 in .41 Magnum and have done a lot of workup this past summer, trying out a lot of the loads I use in a M657 CH and Marlin 94FG.  The M97 won't take any of the 265CP bullets but it's been very good with some of the 250CP's and 210/220 jacketed loads. 

My problem with the gun is the trigger.  Nowhere near as crisp as the S&W, and while the pull probably isn't all that heavy it feels like it's more than it should/could be.  I took the grip frame off to see what's what in there, and a couple of wire springs in the bottom of the gun frame seem like they could be replaced with a lighter version (or at least one of them) to reduce resistance to the trigger pull. 

Has anyone found a way to improve their 97's trigger pull?  Doesn't seem like Wolff would have trigger packs like they do for S&W's, I'm going to try the factory and see what they say.  Bottom line on the gun, it doesn't shoot as well as the S&W for me and it comes down to the trigger.  From sandbags it's got the edge.

[Boxhead]

My M97 was similar when I bought it (used but essentially new). I dry fired  a bunch while watching the evening TV for weeks and it became better though still has a hair more creep than I prefer. I will likely tear it down and work it to get 'er where I want 'er. FA will perform the same work, but it will cost you ~$200 with shipping to have done. For the money and the overall quality of the gun FA should really provide a first class trigger as standard IMO.

[Graybeard]

I really have to wonder just how many of these "bad" triggers folks talk about on used guns are the result of someone doing just what you propose doing. I've handled and shot several M97s and have to say the triggers were everyone near perfection as far as I'm concerned. I seriously doubt they are leaving the factory with poor triggers (actually more appropriate to say actions). I'd not want to say one never slips out but I just don't think as many are getting out as I read about so I have to believe someone is messing them up after the fact.

[Lee Robinson]

WOW.

I have to say, my Freedom Arms model 97 has the best trigger I have ever had on a gun, bar none. I like S & W...but to me although they are great guns they DEFITATELY have a trigger with creep (although smooth) while my FA has none. The FA gun has a trigger like glass...zero creep and then it goes bang...just like glass breaking and just the way it is supposed to be.

[MarkH]

The ONLY thing I would consider doing with it is sending it back to FA for an action job, which will take the creep out of it, if any, and give you about a 3# pull.  If somebody has cooned with the gun, it might cost you more than that to fix it.

I have had "other" gunsmiths work on FA's before with bad results and will never do so again.

Some people will put a slight bend in the arm of those springs with a pair of rubber tipped pliers.  This will lighten the pull some.  It also makes the wire springs more prone to break and I do not recommend it.

Did you buy this gun new?  Have you let the hammer hit the trigger any?

[De41mag]

I've got two Model 97's and had both done at the factory with 3.25 lb. trigger pulls.
Without a doubt the BEST trigger pulls I've ever had on ANY handgun.
The factory will do you a trigger job for a price.... but considering the cost of this fine firearm, it's well worth the price. 
Just my two cents worth.

Dennis

[kgb]

De41, I was thinking of that factory trigger job when I ordered my 97.  Nobody I knew owned one of these and the only FA I got to even feel (not shoot) was a friend of a friend's M83 in 454 and that seemed pretty nice although I have no idea whether his gun had the factory trigger job.  I ordered up micarta grips and the rounded butt option, plus 5 snap caps and a holster, and that was pushing the budget a little, plus the write-ups I could find gave the basic trigger good marks so I just went with that.  If to do over maybe I'd have sprung for the work.

MarkH, I bought this gun new. When I opened it up eyeball the mechanism last week it was probably the first time those parts had seen light since it was assembled.  Just wanted to see what was in there and if I could tell where the trigger pull resistance came from.  I put the lighter return spring in my M657, it was pretty easy and made a big difference, wondering if there's a drop-in type of option here, that's all.  I'll not have any local smith work on it nor modify things myself.  Well, I could probably trust Cylinder and Slide with it...they're pretty local to me.  What do you mean by letting the hammer hit the trigger?  That's a new expression to me.

Lee, I put in the snap caps and tried both the 97 and 657 again.  I can feel the 97 move before it breaks.  Not much, but I don't feel any at all in the Smith.  My first post here, in that context, overstates the difference when I re-read it, but it is the difference between some and none.  I'm guessing/hoping a lighter pull would help overall.  Neither gun has a trigger stop to prevent overtravel, but the resistance of the FA return spring seems to prevent any o/t from being felt.

I shot NRA silhouettes this past summer, all standing shooting where I found myself really concentrating on the triggers of these 2 plus my T/C 10" .41, and that pointed out that I could shoot the 657 better.  I'm not competitive in the game, I've got a long ways to go compared to the guys who have been shooting this for a while.  I know a full-size 83 is the better gun for silhouettes, the 657's weight is definitely an advantage over the lightweight 97, and I don't have a scope mount yet for the 97 to help it sit better and maybe improve balance or at least change it. 

GB, I can't help you out with your wondering.  As stated, mine's not a used gun (well, now it is) so I figure you're talking to Boxhead.  I also didn't propose doing anything just yet...only asking if there are replacement parts from someone like Wollf.

Kirk

[Lee Robinson]

kgb,

The trigger on my 97 has absolutely no creep in it. I did pay for the trigger job. Although I have pulled several other guns with excellent triggers (Smiths and Wessons included), the only other trigger that I have played with that IMO was as nice as my 97 FA was a colt double action (when pulled in single action mode) in 38 caliber.

[MarkH]

"Hammer hitting trigger" refers to letting the hammer slip off your thumb before the gun reaches full cock - accidentally - and the hammer falls onto the trigger, hitting the half cock shelf.  It is a good way to batter the half cock notches and the trigger sear.

I would just shoot the gun a lot.  The trigger will get better with use.  If it doesn't, call FA about it.

[SingleFan]

If you talk with FA's gunsmith, John Carey, he'll tell you exactly why the action may not be what you expected.  In my case, I received my FA97 in .41 mag after a year of loving the action on my FA83.  He'll tell you the 97 will NEVER be capable of as smooth or as light of a trigger pull as the 83.  My 97 has the action job and it feels like pulling a truck compared to the job on the 83.  There are some variables (small amount of real estate inside the frame and a very stiff spring for improved lock time).

John's making a pitch for a smaller version of the 83 (as you know the 97 and 83 are two very different actions).  I was disappointed enough that I'm not buying another 97 unless the design changes...but I may get another 83.  Fact is if I would have known the 97 action could not be made as nice as the 83, I would have bought a 4.75 in. 83.  The difference is that significant.  Now the fact that the little 4.25 in. bbl shoots tiny little groups is a big plus.  By the way, mine has no creep, just too heavy for my liking.  Geez, my Dave Clements single six has a much nicer action to handle than my 97.

[Lee Robinson]

No creep, just too heavy for your liking?

I am not posting this to debate on what trigger pull is the best, as we should use what we like...but I am just curious how light of a trigger do you like? They can go down to 3 # they say...although on mine I only went 3 1/4 - 3 1/2# (as my request)...I recall pulling the trigger on a double action S & W that was worked on and when cocked (shot in single action mode) it was way too light for my liking...probably only taking 2 pounds or so and I quickly lost interest in playing with it.

[MarkH]

Yeah - I do not like a light trigger!  3# is my preference.  Lack of creep is what is critical to me, and a clean break. 

[kgb]

MarkH, I've not had that experience of slipping the hammer like that in any gun of mine....have been pretty careful or maybe just lucky.  I DO intend to shoot it a lot, in fact I haven't fired my Blackhawk .41 since buying this 97 in the Spring.  I'm kind of hoping that all of the playing around with these 2 guns gets me a handful of loads with a high probability of working in the Blackhawk as well.  If not, then there'll be more loading to do for it.

SF, I did call FA and spoke with a gunsmith although I don't recall his name right now.  He told me the resistance following the trigger break comes from the transfer bar.  Both the 97 and the 657 have room for overtravel, but the 97 has enough resistance in the form of the transfer bar system that I don't feel the trigger moving after the break.  If I pull on it enough, it'll move.  This is all in dry-fire obviously.  Must be a pretty slick system after all.  The gunsmith told me the surfaces can be stoned to smooth things up, and there's a small chance there could be a slight burr on the sear surface. 

I've gotta say I'm glad he didn't launch into a defensive stance of "our stuff don't stink, there's no way there's anything wrong, etc" and he left open the possibility this gun wasn't the best built gun in the world.  There're enough horsebutts out there, I'm glad he's not one of them.  I think the gun's exactly what it's supposed to be, and maybe the trigger could have been a little better, but perfection (or at least my idea of it) could be approached a bit closer with the factory trigger job. 

Really, I just wanted to know if there's a spring kit out there that could improve my gun a little, just like one did for my 657.

Further talking with the FA guy, I mentioned that I plan on one day getting an 83.  He hunts with a 6" M83, so we discussed handling and portability, plus maybe a way to get something behind the trigger of my 97 to ease up on the knuckle pounding.  No luck there, I do use a shooting glove when testing and have to be careful about hand position.  That's another item, since I ordered my gun with a rounded butt.  It's not much of a difference from the standard square handle, but I was told that feature does go better with the shorter barrels.  Also, they've found it's harder to get a consistent hold on the gun with the rounded butt.  Wish I'd have spoken to him when I ordered.... It's a pretty gun (hope to get a picture posted here soon), and I can see one day having the 7.5" barrel shortened to make it somewhat portable.  That'll depend on whether I get an 83.  If so, it'll be a silhouette model with a 10" barrel and there's where portability will play its part.

These are slick guns no matter what.  If only they were Ruger-priced.

Kirk

[Boxhead]

I really have to wonder just how many of these "bad" triggers folks talk about on used guns are the result of someone doing just what you propose doing. I've handled and shot several M97s and have to say the triggers were everyone near perfection as far as I'm concerned. I seriously doubt they are leaving the factory with poor triggers (actually more appropriate to say actions). I'd not want to say one never slips out but I just don't think as many are getting out as I read about so I have to believe someone is messing them up after the fact.

I am well versed in what a good trigger is. My Ruger's have been very safely tuned by me to much better than that of my FA M97 plain and siimple. The same goes for my custom Ruger's bulit by Harton, Clements and Bowen. My older S&W's never needed to be touched. The creep in my FA is terrible while the pull is a reasonable 3.5 pounds. Still unaccepatable to me for what one pays for the gun. The same is true for the general "smoothness" of the action. They need work and the fact that FA offers said work as an option says it all.

[2 dogs]

My brother and I both have 97's in 44 special and they both have excellent triggers. One of my 83 454's has a little creep in it but nothing to get too excited about. The best triggers I have are custom jobs by Harton and Linebaugh on Rugers.

[Ken ONeill]

Geez,
I don't know guys. I've owned 4 97's and still have 3 of them. All have had absolutely outstanding triggers. I took 2 of them to the range yesterday, just to prove it to myself again for the umpteenth time. If anything, they may all be slightly better...but definitely just as good as any/all of my 83's.

[STJ]

BE VERY CAREFULL doing your own trigger job on a FA97.  I have successfully done trigger jobs on my own automatics and other revolvers.  I screwed up on my 97 and had to send it in...it wasn’t cheap because of the needed replacement parts...You have to know exactly what you are doing, due to the tight tolerances you can go too far really easy...I now know how to do it, but it cost me and I still don’t think I would do it again.

[kgb]

Not the best light to really light up my 97, but then when the sun's bright the glare's a bit much.

I'll keep snapping on snap caps this winter to get the feel down pat, and a few trips to the range to see how the scope works.  So far I like the balance change as the gun sits a little better in my bare hand and steadies up nice.  Here's hoping it tames the recoil somewhat, as scoping did for my M657.