Author Topic: Which is better (Read 1963 times)

handirifle · « **on:** December 18, 2006, 04:15:12 PM »

OK I decided to sell my Win 94 Trapper, in 44 mag to buy a G2. I'd thought all along I'd get one in 44 Mag, but more and more, I'm thinking the 357 MAX. It would seem to me the max might have better range (flatter?) and maybe the same or less recoil of the 44.

Opinions?

Oh, yea. What do you guys wear for ear protection when hunting with these monsters?

lovedogs · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2006, 04:40:19 PM »

Guess it would depend on what you're planning on shooting and your priorities. I love my Super 14 .44 but it's still a short-range proposition. If you're looking for more range you may not want that .357 Max. It will shoot flatter but will run out of energy pretty quick, also, due to bullet shape. If you want longer range you might want to consider a 7-30 or a .30-30. The 7-30 has the lesser recoil. The .30-30 will recoil slightly more than a 240 gr. .44 load but not enough you'd really notice. I really like the .30-30 in barrels longer than 10 inches. I use a 12 incher. With either 130 gr. Hornady SSP's or Nosler 150 BT's it's a wonderful 200 yd. capable deer shooter. Though many wouldn't recommend it, the .30-30 with that Nosler and other good bullets is capable of larger critters within its range. If you want to go to a little larger animals you might like the .35 Rem. At one time I had a wildcat .35/.375 KAP (.375 Win. necked down to take .35 cal. bullets), which outdid the .35 Rem. by a little and had a super sturdy rimmed case. It took 6 head of elk using Hornady 200 gr. SP's. Of course, recoil was substantial, also. But it was a real dragon slayer. I always use Sonic ear plugs when hunting with a handgun. They allow you to hear things around you and still offer some protection.

handirifle · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2006, 05:32:31 PM »

OK thanks for the Sonic info. Will look into those. I guess I should have been more specific in my first post.

I want to use it for hunting deer in Ohio, during their gun season. They only allow straight case rounds (no bottlenecked ones) and the handgun has to be .357 or greater cal, with 6" or more barrel. That's why just those two were mentioned.

I could go the encore route with more powerful rounds, but I figure it will be 150yds tops in most cases. More than likely, less than that.

I know the 44 has a lot of oomph to it, but on the NEF forums, I've read some glowing reports of the MAX as well, especially with 180gr bullets.

Does anyone use the electronic style of plugs?

swampthing · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2006, 01:29:28 AM »

Both calibers are excellent in my opinion. As far as trajectory goes with hunting weight bullets, the 357max can be loaded to be flat enough for 175-200yds shot with little to no "hold over." The .44mag is no slouch though, a 250 LFN @ 1900 fps will reach out there, if you need to make a shot that far away.
I have got some of the walker game ears and they work fine. I need to wear a hat to keep the wind off the microphones, as the amplify everything. Volume turned down they make due on thier claim.

kidolds · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2006, 02:10:22 PM »

I enjoy the Max. I hunt in Ohio I changed fron the 44Mag to the Max for the rang, The only draw back is reloading you own rounds but it is well worht it. It is a blast at the range also.

handirifle · « **Reply #5 on:** December 19, 2006, 05:01:51 PM »

How does the recoil compare between the two?

MnMike · « **Reply #6 on:** December 19, 2006, 05:30:21 PM »

Just on the topic of ear protection, I tried last year using a cheap ($15) Harbor Freight set of amplified muffs. I had never used anything while hunting, but the blast from my 7-30 does make the ears ring for a good while - that can't be good. The muffs also seem to give me a bit of amplification for hearing the crunch crunch sounds of a buck moving.

mike.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2006, 05:47:42 PM »

Handi, I can't help ya with the handgun info, new to that myself, but I've been hunting with hearing help for several years now, I've used Walker's, didn't like the over the ear thing, used disposable hearing aids, they worked well, but are no longer available. Started using Sport Ears 2 years ago, they work very well, amplify the small sounds that I could no longer hear and cut off any sound that's above 95Db, work very well for hunting, wouldn't use them alone for range work as a lot of the sound is transmitted thru bone, muffs work the best for that purpose. Although I haven't used them, there was a thread at RFC on hearing protection and enhancement, the Radians muffs and to a lesser degree, Radians in-ear devices both worked well and for less than $100. The Sport Ears can be had for $300-$600 depending on where ya get em, I got mine on Ebay NIB for $310 shipped.

Tim

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4787043

https://www.sportear.biz/index.aspx

Radians Muff

Radians In-ear

handirifle · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2006, 07:52:24 PM »

Thanks guys, yes if I get into handgunning for hunting, I'll need something. Losing much of my hearing would cost me my job, not to mention the hearing loss effects too.

WOW! big differences in price on the sport ears!

apollo · « **Reply #9 on:** December 20, 2006, 04:10:18 AM »

The 357 max can be loaded with the Hornady SSP bullet with is a pointed bullet. It really helps extend the range even more by having the higher BC and that translates to flatter trajectory and more energy at extended range.

handirifle · « **Reply #10 on:** December 20, 2006, 04:58:14 AM »

Apollo
I'm starting to lean back towards the 44 again. This is a tough call for me. On the H&R forum I posted the same question and it seems they favor the 44. Been some issues of game not dropping as quickly as with the 44 and losing them, not to the woods, but other hunters.

This report WAS from Ohio, where I plan on using this thing anyway. Guys on the leverguns.com forums, sure have no issues with the 35 calibers there, BUT they are pushing them a bit faster there too. Usually the 35 Rem is the lightest cal, with others being the 358 Win and 35 Whellen, and these are all rifles over there so velocities are even higher still.

Gregory · « **Reply #11 on:** December 20, 2006, 01:39:41 PM »

You must be a handloader to consider the 357 Max, since factory loads are few and far between. I started handgun deer hunting with a 44 Mag and switched to a 357 Max. Less recoil, kills deer just as dead. Deer don't go far with a well placed shot.

I don't wear hearing protection while hunting but I do at the range. Of course I don't recommend what I do, as I do have some hearing loss.

handirifle · « **Reply #12 on:** December 20, 2006, 02:06:36 PM »

Gregory
Now you've got me wondering again.

What bullet do you use?

Gregory · « **Reply #13 on:** December 20, 2006, 02:42:13 PM »

Quote from: handirifle on December 20, 2006, 02:06:36 PM

Gregory
Now you've got me wondering again.

What bullet do you use?

180 Hornady XTP

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** December 20, 2006, 02:54:41 PM »

Anyone that's interested in having decent hearing when you get older needs to read this, I sure wish someone would have told me when I was younger and had good hearing so I could have kept it.

Tim

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?id=2052

Bullseye · « **Reply #15 on:** December 20, 2006, 03:23:05 PM »

I have a 44 mag and used to have a 357max. I did not like the 357max that much. It had more torque to the wrist than any gun I have ever shot and I have shot some big ones. I had 30 rounds left when I decided to sell it and went to the range to shoot them up which was a mistake becuase then my wrist was sore for a couple of days.

Another concern in my opinion is the availability of brass. It is not a problem right now, but I also think that Remington is only running it twice per year, who knows when it could go to less than twice per year.

I shot 5 or 6 deer with the 357max. I was never that impressed with the killing power. I do not think that I ever had a deer run less than 150 yards with a well placed shot. Now dead is dead, but I have seen the results happen much quicker with the other calibers I hunt with.

The TCA's special offering last quarter was a 18" tapered barrel in 357max. I was tempted to order one because I thought that it would make a better rifle than a pistol, but for the reasons listed above I decided to save my money.

Gregory · « **Reply #16 on:** December 21, 2006, 12:41:47 PM »

Quote from: Bullseye on December 20, 2006, 03:23:05 PM

I did not like the 357max that much. Another concern in my opinion is the availability of brass. It is not a problem right now, but I also think that Remington is only running it twice per year, who knows when it could go to less than twice per year.

I shot 5 or 6 deer with the 357max. I was never that impressed with the killing power. I do not think that I ever had a deer run less than 150 yards with a well placed shot.

I bought a few hundred cases so I'm set for a while, and 4/5 of the deer I've shot with a 357 Max have dropped within 25 yds. Including this guy who went about 10 steps after the shot:

sidekick · « **Reply #17 on:** December 22, 2006, 02:35:22 AM »

I've never shot or owned a .357 Max, so I can't comment on the round. I have owned .44 Mag in 10" Contender, and do presently own .44 Mag in 7-1/2" Super BH and 4" S&W 629. For deer hunting, my opinion, and it is just that, is that the .44 would be the better choice of the two in a Contender or G2; however, I have come to prefer the .44 caliber in a revolver. I'll try to explain my simple logic. Once you step up to a Contende or G2 platform I feel that either of the above calibers becomes the 'limiting factor" in the setup. My preference for deer hunting in a Contender is the 14" 7-30 Waters. That caliber, in that platform, will perform beyond my ability to shoot it accurately, therefore I become the limiting factor in the equation. That said, if one of those two is your chosen caliber, then either should perform better in a break open handgun as opposed to a revolver. Keep doing your research, and don't buy until you are comfortable with your decision, whatever it is; that's really the bottom line.

handirifle · « **Reply #18 on:** December 22, 2006, 12:27:32 PM »

Sidekick
Thanks, as for out west the 30-30 or 7-30 were my two first pics for the contender, but the 357 vs 44 question was for Ohio, where straight cases are all that is legal in handguns.

I've briefly considered revolvers, I currently own a 4" .357, but don't really considder it a hunting handgun. It's for self and home defense, same as the 9mm auto.

The Waters has a real good reputation, but so does the 30-30 or the 30-30 AI with 125-150gr bullets.

Question on the Waters, can you form cases from 30-30 rounds with just the sizine die, or are there more steps?

apollo · « **Reply #19 on:** December 22, 2006, 03:25:20 PM »

I have never killed a deer with the 357 max but my father has killed 4 with it in a 10 inch barrel contender. All dropped where they stood. All shots were around 50 yards or a little less. He has used the Sierra 170 gr JHC and the Hornady 180 XTP. I have killed several with the 35 rem in a 14 inch contender using the Hornady 180 gr SSP bullet which will also be an excellant bullet in the 357 max. When this bullut is used in the max, I firmly believe that it makes for a better longer range round than the 44 mag using flat nosed bullets.

spinafish · « **Reply #20 on:** December 23, 2006, 03:54:18 AM »

Handirifle, only 7-30 Waters dies are needed. Just run a lubed 30-30 case through the 7-30 die and you will have an odd loading case that will become a 7-30 upon firing. I use heavier bullets for fireforming than I use for general use, but that is only because I bought a bunch on a markdown table. Most fireforming loads are accurate enough to hunt with.

poncaguy · « **Reply #21 on:** December 23, 2006, 09:37:49 AM »

357 Max is my favorite Contender round, shoots very flat, does welll on deer. Recoil is very mild.

TNrifleman · « **Reply #22 on:** December 23, 2006, 11:51:29 AM »

Another cartridge to consider is the 375 Winchester. I have one in a Super 14 barrel with an integral muzle break and it sure shoots well. This is a handloading proposition, but the 375 is really little more problem to load than the 44 or 357 Max.

handirifle · « **Reply #23 on:** December 23, 2006, 01:23:56 PM »

Quote from: TNrifleman on December 23, 2006, 11:51:29 AM

Another cartridge to consider is the 375 Winchester. I have one in a Super 14 barrel with an integral muzle break and it sure shoots well. This is a handloading proposition, but the 375 is really little more problem to load than the 44 or 357 Max.

Maybe later on I will, since I have a Win 94 BB in 375 also.

300winman · « **Reply #24 on:** December 23, 2006, 11:09:38 PM »

I think it depends on the setup. I have owned a 10" octagon and a "Super 14" both in 44 mag. The 10" was light weight but terrible as far as recoil. Now the Super 14 was mild for recoil, but a heavy gun to hold offhand. If you don't mind the weight of the super 14, I would recommend the 44 mag. If your going light weight, I would recommend a less recoiling caliber(357 max). And if flatter shooting is your concern, you can look for a 445 super mag or ream out a 44mag barrel to that caliber. I personally got rid of my 44 mag barrels when I purchased my DW 445 super mag. It shoots great with 4" compensated, and I am looking at getting a 6 or 8 inch barrel for hunting in the future. Hope this helps.

lovedogs · « **Reply #25 on:** January 18, 2007, 11:59:05 AM »

I've never fired a .357 Max so can't comment either way on it. I don't find my Super 14 .44 with Pachmayr Decelerator grip at all objectionable. In fact, I love to just plink with it, it's that pleasant to shoot. IMHO I think it's probably the more versatile of the two. And something I have noticed having used many .44's for many years... no matter what bullet you use they kill well. Some jacketed bullets work well while some don't. Again, IMHO many don't perform as advertised. Most come apart at 1500+ FPS that's possible in the Contenders with 240 gr. In my experience most jacketed either fail by coming apart or by not expanding at all. But, in both cases, they've still always killed okay. I just have to wonder if you experienced those same problems with a bullet of smaller diameter what the outcome might be. Personally, if that happened I think I'd rather be shooting the bullet of larger diameter.

Last fall I tried shooting cast 240 gr. in my .44 on game. The gun liked it and worked great at just over 1600 FPS. I'm never going back to using jacketed bullets in it. The deer I shot was completely penetrated. The meat damage was substantial but not real destructive. It performed better than anything I've had with jacketed. A good cast bullet with sizeable meplat will flat-out kill deer! No way is anything going to survive a hole that size all the way through it from any angle. Though I've not had the opportunity to shoot deer with the .357 Max I would be willing to bet if you could shoot deer side-by-side with both calibers you'd pick the .44. It's one of those cases of bigger being better. Components are plentiful and cheaper, also. Just my opinion.

poncaguy · « **Reply #26 on:** January 18, 2007, 02:12:14 PM »

My 357 Max shoots a lot flatter than my 44 mag, why I like it better....

kidolds · « **Reply #27 on:** January 18, 2007, 04:53:44 PM »

THE MAX IS BETTER> I started hand gunning in 87 with a 44mag they are great for close range 100 and under. most of the time deer are taken at 50yds. but for the one that always is in the middel of the corn field or on the other ridge that is the big boy the 357 max is it. they have factory loads at some gun shows. you can shoot 357 mags and 38 spl. I still shoot my 44 mag (Ruger 7 1/4 Black hawk) the recoil on the max is not bad. I shoot 180 XTP and SSP. The Xtp have given me better results on Deer But on Ground hogs the SSP gets down range better. I live a hour South of columbus if you want to get together and try one. kolds442@adelphia.net