Legally selling a reciever???

[krod47nw]

Gentlemen,

I have a handi rifle reciever that I am considering selling.  Can anyone tell me how I do this legally?   I know I have to ship to an FFL dealer, but is there anything that needs to be done on my end?  Do I have to find the dealer to ship to, or is that up to the buyer?  I am thinking about listing it in the classified section of this site.  Any info would be graetly appreciated.

[Mac11700]

Gentlemen,

I have a handi rifle reciever that I am considering selling.  Can anyone tell me how I do this legally?   I know I have to ship to an FFL dealer, but is there anything that needs to be done on my end?  Do I have to find the dealer to ship to, or is that up to the buyer?  I am thinking about listing it in the classified section of this site.  Any info would be graetly appreciated.

It depends on which state you live in from what I have been informed .....Check with a gun dealer in your area...All receivers have to go thru a FFL holder..to be checked in..and they will have to comply with all federal regulations on checking it in...and having the person buying it fill out the needed forms..and background checks when picking it up...I have found it much easier to just let a FFL dealer...send and receive them...It makes it totally legal...it will cost a little more..but it is best to err of the safe side than wind up getting in trouble...

Mac

[stimpylu32]

Wish i had a better awnser for you , but as i have never sold a firearm other than face to face i have no clue . i do think it is up to the buyer to have a FFL to receave the frame . and you to have a FFL to send it.

Hope this helps

stimpy

[Datil]

 It has go from your FFL to the buyers FFL If it is across state line.
 thats what ididon a rifle just lately Marv.

[lik2hunt]

I have bought and sold MANY guns and receivers and parts from here in OKla. As far as my state and many others go, all guns or receivers must be shipped to an FFL. I ship mine UPS and they have no problem as long as it is from me to an FFL. Any guns or receivers that I purchase that must be sent here must come to an FFL here. I am responsible for the cost of that FFL's fee. Hope this helps, but the best thing is to check with the local authorities, i.e., police, sheriff, etc. I was going to purchase guns from some state in New England recently, don't recall which right now, and after the guy checked with the authorities he found out that he did not have to ship thru an FFL there, but only to an FFL here.

[mt3030]

Lik2hunt:
You have it correct. I have sent and received rifles to and from out of state. All that is required to comply with Federal law is that the rifle/action must be received by a current FFL holder, who completes any needed background checks and the Form 4473 (Yellow sheet, which is now white, again.) If you are sending the rifle/action for repairs, such as to NEF or a licenced 'Smith, the rifle can be returned directly to you. I know some locals might have state, county, township, or other guidelines in addition to this, but this is what the Feds require. Thankfully, here in Montana, the Fed guidelines are all we have to comply with.
As has been already stated, when in doubt, check with your local authorities. DO NOT take just the word of some local gunshop. Of course they are going to recommend you ship the rifle/action out thru them, for a fee.
Please note I haven't even mentioned handguns. That's another story.

With all the inquiring/investigating minds we have on this forum, I'm surprised someone hasn't posted the exact Fed Directive yet.

[quickdtoo]

I'm surprised too, Wally!!

Most of your questions can be answered at the ATF's web site FAQ.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/

Specifically under Unlicensed Persons....

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b

State laws are listed by the NRA...

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/

Aside from dealers who require a hard copy of an FFL, verification of licenses can be done at the FFL Ez-check web site, there's no need to send or fax a copy of a license unless the seller requires it.

https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/

To find an FFL to recieve a firearm, just use one of the handy FFL locators on the net like this one..

http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp

Tim

[MSP Ret]

I would like to see that particular directive. My FFL used to accept long guns from individuals for me and then transfer them to me, however after doing some checking he told me he was in error and now can only accept long guns from another FFL dealer. The crux of the matter as I understand it is he has no way of positively identifying the person he is recieving the gun from unless that person appears in person with the proper identification. I hate to admit it but that makes perfect sense to me. It would be much easier, and cheaper, if he could accept long guns from induviduals instead of us having to go through 2 FFL's....so if anyone here can produce documentation that an FFL dealer can accept long guns from individuals from out of state or from persons he has not positively identified please let me know and post it here...Thanks, and I hope you can do so....<><....

[quickdtoo]

MSP, my FFL requires a copy of the seller's driver's license to be sent with a firearm, that satisfies her requirements, she prefers to deal with another FFL, but she doesn't require it if she has gets the DL copy.

Tim

[quickdtoo]

Here are USPS and UPS directives on shipping firearms.

Tim

http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52_print.htm

432 Mailability
432.1 General
The following conditions apply:
a. Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable in the domestic mail except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0.
b. The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0 or C024.2.0.
c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.2.0.
d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 431.2b and c.
432.2 PS Form 1508
PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, must be completed by each firearm manufacturer or dealer who deposits firearms for mailing. The form must be filed with the postmaster of the post office of mailing.

https://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/guidelines/firearms.html

[quickdtoo]

Here's a related thread at RFC...

Tim

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151404

[mt3030]

Tim:
Thanks for the link to the RFC thread. That really answers a lot of questions.

[lik2hunt]

I actually got in a deal one time selling a long gun where I had to supply my DL also. Forgot to mention that it is now just old hat and that I consider it a good practice, whether asked for it or not, to supply it with any and every gun or receiver shipped from me.
I also sold a receiver one time to an individual who's FFL insisted that it be shipped from a licensed FFL here and with accompanying signed copy of such. Luckily my FFL dealer here has done so much business with me that he went ahead and helped me out on this one with no fee.
Bottom line is there are some who wish to buy from an individual who are in such rural or such restricted areas that the seller sometimes has to comply with the buyer's FFL's requests in order to make the sale. But as has already been established, it is not in compliance with federal law.

Sidenote: to echo what MT3030 has said about handguns, it is a whole different story and set of rules there. These handgun regulations being misunderstood and misapplied are what tends to generally muck up the water, so to speak, on the long gun deals.

[mt3030]

...My FFL used to accept long guns from individuals for me and then transfer them to me, however after doing some checking he told me he was in error and now can only accept long guns from another FFL dealer. ...

Andy:
This might very well be one of the state or local laws some areas have to deal with. It would not surprise me considering some the gun laws you have in Mass. (I lived and tried to hunt on Cape Cod for two years! '66-'68)

Please understand, I am not picking on Mass. I know there are many other locals that are gun-law heavy.

[quickdtoo]

California comes to mind as one to the most strict states for firearms transactions, I'm sure Handirifle has some comments on that!!

Tim

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/CASL.pdf

PURCHASE Transfer or sale of all firearms must be processed with a California gun dealer’s license. An application for transfer must be made with the gun dealer before any firearm may be sold or transferred. This application contains a description of the buyer or transferee and of the firearm. A copy is sent by the dealer to the California Department of Justice and the local police chief or sheriff. The dealer may be charged a fee up to $14 by the Department of Justice. If the Department of Justice determines that the buyer or transferee is not eligible to possess a firearm, they shall notify the dealer immediately. There is a 10-day waiting period before delivery of any firearm. Dealers must keep a register of all firearm transfers. A person under restraining order may not acquire any firearm. Starting October 1, 1993, no firearm capable of being concealed upon the person shall be delivered or sold unless the person receiving the firearm presents to the gun dealer a basic firearms safety certificate approved by the California Department of Justice. No person shall make an application to purchase more than one pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person within a 30-day period and no delivery shall be made to any person who has made an application to purchase more than one pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person within any 30-day period. A gun dealer must post a sign advising “Iif you leave a loaded firearm where a cChild obtains and improperly uses it, you may be fined or sent to prison.” The waiting period and dealer application do not apply to transfers to police officers, other gun dealers, manufacturers, or importers, antique firearms, and rifles and shotguns which are classified as curios or relics by the federal government, infrequent gifts or transfers to one’s “immediate family,” an infrequent temporary loan not to exceed 30 days to a person who is not prohibited from possessing a firearm, and a transfer of a rifle or shotgun at auctions by nonprofit or public benefit corporations. It is unlawful for any person to transfer any firearm to a person who is forbidden to possess or own a firearm. A dealer may not transfer a pistol to a person under 21 or other firearm to a person under 18. It is unlawful to purchase, receive, or attempt to purchase or receive a firearm if such person is subject to a protective order, temporary restraining order or injunction. Within 60 days of bringing a pistol, revolver or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person into this state, the person importing the firearm must complete and return a Department of Justice registration form or sell or transfer the firearm to a licensed dealer, sheriff or police department.

Massachusetts is pretty strict too.

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/MASL.pdf

PURCHASE A complex procedure is set out for the purchase of rifles, shotguns, handguns, their related feeding devices, ammunition, “large capacity firearms” and “large capacity feeding devices.” Care must be taken to have the correct card or license for a particular purchase. It is unlawful to sell or transfer any firearm, firearm feeding device, or ammunition to a person without the proper card, license, or permit. See possession for how to acquire a card, license, or permit. An alien or non-resident class A or class B temporary license to carry a firearm shall not be valid for the purpose of purchasing handguns, ammunition or ammunition feeding devices. Persons over 70 shall be exempt from all renewal license fees. A private individual is permitted to sell not more than four firearms (rifles, shotguns, or handguns) per year unless sold directly to a licensed gun dealer. He must be properly licensed to possess these firearms and the purchaser must be properly licensed to buy them. The seller must file a report of the sale with the Executive Director of the Criminal History Systems Board within seven days of the sale. This report must be on the proper forms provided by the Executive Director and give all required details regarding the seller, purchaser and the firearm being transferred, including the caliber, make and serial number, and the FID, license or permit number of the buyer. It is unlawful to sell, transfer, or possess “any assault weapon or a large capacity ammunition feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994.” Dealers are forbidden to sell or transfer in any way a handgun that is composed of metal with a melting temperature of less than 900˚ F, tensile strength of less than 55,000 lbs. per square inch, or having a density of less than 7.5 grams per cubic centimeter, unless the handgun passes a performance test; an unsafe handgun; or handgun with a barrel less than 3 inches without a written notice of its accuracy. Gun dealers are required to post a sign advising that “It is unlawful to store or keep a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun in any place unless that weapon is equipped with tamper-resistant safety device or is stored or kept in a securely locked container.” The written warning must be provided to a purchaser or transferee.

[MSP Ret]

I agree that Mass is right up there with the worst offenders of denying residents thier constitutional right "to keep and bear arms". What this state is trying to do is pick away at all our rights a little at a time by adding seemingly harmless and foolish little laws that will eventually restrict and prevent it's residents from owning firearms of any kind. Our current Lieut Gov. who was running for Gov and was just defeated by the Democratic candidate was going to reinstitute the practice of having the State Police issue all handgun and concealed weapons permits after many lawsuits by citizens against liberal local police chiefs who would not issue a permit to ANYONE because they felt no one but the police should own a handgun, the winning democratic candidate does not believe in private ownership of firearm or handguns and is keeping the authority to issue hangun/concealed weapons permits in the hands of the local police. An oddity of the permit issuance procedure is after the local chief authorizes the permit it MUST go to the State Police for approval and issuance!!! What the many liberal local chiefs do is refuse to issue it at the local level, thereby shortstopping the process. With the new Democrat coming into the Gov's office there is even less hope for the fair, balanced, unbiased, and reasonable approach to the issuance of handgun permits in this liberl state. I am afraid that the entire country is soon headed the same way....<><....

[MOGLEY]

I had an issue with a handgun about 3 years ago. A CZ 40. Talked to the company guy and shipped it out myself and recieved it 3 weeks later. No FFL. I guess shipping to and from a repair is an exception?? I was surprised but happy.

[quickdtoo]

MOGLEY, shipping a firearm for repair to a dealer or mfr isn't the same thing as a transfer of ownership of a firearm. You're shipping your own firearm to an FFL, and they're shipping it back to you, the registered owner. An unlicensed individual can't mail a handgun by USPS, they must be shipped by common carrier such as UPS and they only ship them by $overnight services$. An FFL is required to ship a handgun thru the USPS.

Tim